# Why do the police lie? (The war on drugs) **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [November 28, 2004, 2:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-police-lie-the-war-on-drugs/276947 "2004-11-28T02:34:00Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 6:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-police-lie-the-war-on-drugs/276947/21 "2004-11-28T18:47:06Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > Nowhere in there does it define “marijuana” as the dried buds of the plant. Leaf? That’s marijuana, dude. Stalk? That’s marijuana, too. Root ball? It ain’t hops, buddy. Close, but not quite. In fact, [U.S. Code, Title 21, Chapter 13, Subchapter 1, Part A, Sec. 802](http://www.lii.warwick.ac.uk/uscode/21/802.html) rather specifically defines marijuana: > [@](#): > > The term ‘‘marihuana’’ means all parts of the plant Cannabis sativa L., whether growing or not; the seeds thereof; the resin extracted from any part of such plant; and every compound, manufacture, salt, derivative, mixture, or preparation of such plant, its seeds or resin. Such term does not include the mature stalks of such plant, fiber produced from such stalks, oil or cake made from the seeds of such plant, any other compound, manufacture, salt, derivative, mixture, or preparation of such mature stalks (except the resin extracted therefrom), fiber, oil, or cake, or the sterilized seed of such plant which is incapable of germination. So, for example, hemp (made from mature stalks) and various bird seed formulations (which contain sterilized cannabis seeds) would not get you busted. Still, the definition is broad enough to account for the inflated figures you see in the news. ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-police-lie-the-war-on-drugs/276947/22 "2004-11-28T18:51:51Z")
> [@Muffin](#): > > Just pulled it out my ass, the same way some police pull their figures out of their asses. I figured so, just didn’t want to say so. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 7:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-police-lie-the-war-on-drugs/276947/23 "2004-11-28T19:10:11Z")
> [@ParentalAdvisory](#): > > Yeah, the report didn’t really say that what they found was dried, or whole plants. My guess is that is was dry, with intent to sell. No need to guess – [here are pictures](http://www.officer.com/article/article.jsp?id=18765&siteSection=1#). [Direct link to picture of buds](http://images.ibsys.com/2004/1124/3947348.jpg) Amazingly, it doesn’t appear to be manicured or dried yet. (I suppose it’s just possible that it’s been dried without manicuring it, but who the hell _does_ that?) If it’s as wet as it looks, those big bags would start to compost pretty quickly. If it’s not, the lack of manicuring is going to seriously devalue their product. Either way, it’s the kind of stupidity you expect from morons who _ignore traffic laws_ with large quantities of contraband in their vehicles. :smack: **Q.E.D.** , I’m not sure about how the USC is interpreted, but as I read it seems as though the exempted constituents are only exempted when they are isolated from the rest of the plant. Canada’s _[Controlled Drugs & Substances Act](http://laws.justice.gc.ca/en/C-38.8/37187.html#rid-37240)_ is a little clearer in its intent where it defines cannabis as a Schedule II substance: > [@](#): > > Cannabis, its preparations, derivatives and similar synthetic preparations, including: > Cannabis resin > Cannabis (marihuana) > Cannabidiol […] > Cannabinol […] > Tetrahydrocannabinol […] > > but not including: > > Non-viable Cannabis seed, with the exception of its derivatives. > Mature Cannabis stalks **that do not include leaves, flowers, seeds or branches** ; and fiber derived from such stalks. So legally, if you have ten pounds of cannabis stalks that you’ve imported to make paper, cloth, or whatever, you’re fine. If those stalks have have branches on 'em, they are totally equivalent to top buds. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-police-lie-the-war-on-drugs/276947/24 "2004-11-28T19:11:00Z")
> [@Ninja Pizza Guy](#): > > That would be the “War on (Some) Drugs,” yes? I believe (no evidence, no cite, just my gut feel) that if there was a pot lobby with the clout of the booze & tobacco lobbies, we’d see some laws change damn fast. I don’t know about that, unless you consider that for there to be a pot lobby like that, there would have to be a lot more open marijuana use in society. Some people really do think Drugs Are Real Bad and drugs means stuff that’s illegal. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 7:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-police-lie-the-war-on-drugs/276947/25 "2004-11-28T19:12:37Z")
:smack: Which is not to say they’re good, just that I think the badness of marijuana has been accepted uncritically by plenty of people. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 7:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-police-lie-the-war-on-drugs/276947/26 "2004-11-28T19:14:48Z")
After looking at that pick again, it’s pretty obvious the bud is dry. I was going by how dark green it is, and ignoring how red the other bits are. Very sloppy manicure. Tsk Tsk. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-police-lie-the-war-on-drugs/276947/27 "2004-11-28T19:16:11Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > **Q.E.D.** , I’m not sure about how the USC is interpreted, but as I read it seems as though the exempted constituents are only exempted when they are isolated from the rest of the plant You could be right. I wasn’t entirely sure what it means by “mature” stalks, either. I imagine the language is intentionally vague. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-police-lie-the-war-on-drugs/276947/28 "2004-11-28T19:18:03Z")
225 lbs/3600 oz/3924 troy oz of gold @ $450/troy ounce = $1 765 800 street value. 225 lbs/3600 oz/3924 troy oz of platinum @ $860/troy ounce = $3 374 640 street value. I wonder if gold and platinum would be as expensive as Pot if you could grow them in your backyard? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-police-lie-the-war-on-drugs/276947/29 "2004-11-28T19:27:43Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > Either way, it’s the kind of stupidity you expect from morons who _ignore traffic laws_ with large quantities of contraband in their vehicles. :smack: I would be the best driver in the world with 115lbs in my car. They are definitely dumb if they actually did violate basic traffic laws. I have a huge feeling that the police were tipped off though, and pulled them over with the dogs already on site, claiming a violation of traffic laws. But hey, what they were doing is illegal, so they did get busted fair and square (that doesn’t mean the law is right, but that’s another thread). I assume you’re links contain more info on the story, so I’ll check them out later (I assume NWS, so I won’t take the risk). ---
**Author:** ![Hamlet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hamlet/32/2818_2.png) [@Hamlet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hamlet)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-police-lie-the-war-on-drugs/276947/30 "2004-11-28T19:35:42Z")
> [@fishbicycle](#): > > Because they’re ethically bankrupt tough guys who have a strong need for exaggeration to make themselves look better to the people who don’t know the first thing about drugs? That’d be my guess. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Mudd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/f14d63/32.png) [@Larry\_Mudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Mudd)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-police-lie-the-war-on-drugs/276947/31 "2004-11-28T19:40:01Z")
The link I put up has exactly the same text as the Yahoo! page you linked to – so no extra info, apart from the pictures. I can’t see why it wouldn’t be safe for work, though – it’s a link to **[Officer.com](http://Officer.com) - _The Source For Law Enforcement_**. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Metacom](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ecae2f/32.png) [@Metacom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Metacom)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-police-lie-the-war-on-drugs/276947/32 "2004-11-28T19:40:59Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > Close, but not quite. In fact, [U.S. Code, Title 21, Chapter 13, Subchapter 1, Part A, Sec. 802](http://www.lii.warwick.ac.uk/uscode/21/802.html) rather specifically defines marijuana: > So, for example, hemp (made from mature stalks) and various bird seed formulations (which contain sterilized cannabis seeds) would not get you busted. Still, the definition is broad enough to account for the inflated figures you see in the news. And does this definition vary by state? I’m pretty sure that code only applies to Federal marijuana busts. ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 7:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-police-lie-the-war-on-drugs/276947/33 "2004-11-28T19:41:44Z")
Well, there are a handful of pro-legalization lobbying organizations, and it’s not hard to find them on your computer.\* However, if there were a lobbying group of pot dealers, don’t you think they’d lobby the other way? If pot stays illegal, the dealers continue to make money. If it were decriminalized, anyone with a half-green thumb could grow his own. \*Some might think it imprudent to have a link on this board to a marijuana law reform website, so I didn’t include a link. You can find it if you want to. ---
**Author:** ![Q.E.D](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/q/51bf81/32.png) [@Q.E.D](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Q.E.D)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-police-lie-the-war-on-drugs/276947/34 "2004-11-28T19:50:20Z")
> [@Metacom](#): > > And does this definition vary by state? Good question. I would assume that the states use the US Code definition, but we all know what assuming does. 😃 I’m having a hard time finding a single state-by-state breakdown of the definitions of “marijuana”, but apparently there is some variation. For example, my own state, Virginia, recently added stems and seeds to their definition. The US Code definition already included those items. ---
**Author:** ![threemae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/5f9b8f/32.png) [@threemae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/threemae)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-police-lie-the-war-on-drugs/276947/35 "2004-11-28T20:00:19Z")
Alright, my calculation of a retail value of: “Fiddy for an eighth”, which is a pretty standard price for run-of-the-mill chronic around here put the bust at around $1.4 million at retail. Who understands this bat-shit loonball logic? ---
**Author:** ![ParentalAdvisory](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/53a042/32.png) [@ParentalAdvisory](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ParentalAdvisory)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-police-lie-the-war-on-drugs/276947/36 "2004-11-28T20:22:56Z")
> [@Larry Mudd](#): > > I can’t see why it wouldn’t be safe for work, though – it’s a link to **[Officer.com](http://Officer.com) - _The Source For Law Enforcement_**. 😃 You’re right, didn’t catch that. I read that the links went to pictures though, so I wanted to avoid them. ---
**Author:** ![El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/41988e/32.png) [@El\_Cid\_Viscoso](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/El_Cid_Viscoso)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-police-lie-the-war-on-drugs/276947/37 "2004-11-28T20:40:29Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > The media’s job isn’t to make fun, but they should point this out. If few outlets have done so, I imagine it’s because the media depends on the police for stories and if they piss them off, the police are less likely to cooperate with them. This sort of quid pro quo journalism doesn’t end up serving anybody’s interests, of course… When I was an intern in the Cincinnati area and did major time on the city desk, several of the local law enforcement agencies took great pains to educate me about their procedures. But that’s only because I asked them. The majority of the reporters I’ve ever known just want to write their 12 inches and go home at night. Just like most anybody, when they’re on the clock they will avoid heavy lifting, if at all possible. The time I spent in the lab was pretty informative. I remember the lovely, red-haired tech who gave me my first lesson on marijuana, and as I peered through her microscope at a leaf sample, I could see a sparse sprinkling of tiny, translucent mushroom-shaped crystals. “Trichomes are what get you high,” she said. “In this case, the guy that grew it is pretty much doing time for the weight of the skuff. It’s low-grade junk. Mostly water and plant material.” So I guess this reporter could have dug into the weight of the crystals and made the cops accountable that way too. But it just isn’t done, and even more so in this particular case. To a police officer, 225 pounds of weed is almost infinite Evil, doled out to little kids in quarter-bag portions of corruption. Ascribing $10 million to this schwag means someone’s going to fry. Considering the weight, the operation must be pretty large. To give you some perspective, 100 plants on a pool table (Sea of Green method) will produce about 3 pounds of sinsemilla in 2 months’ time \*. And right now, the cops have precisely _dick_: two anonymous mules who swear they were paid cash by a guy in Detroit to drive two new sedans to some parking lot in Cleveland. I reckon cresting $10 million will let the authorities take extraordinary measures. * * * - Source: _Botany of Desire_ by Michael Pollan. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [November 28, 2004, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-police-lie-the-war-on-drugs/276947/38 "2004-11-28T20:53:33Z")
> [@Q.E.D.](#): > > Good question. I would assume that the states use the US Code definition, but we all know what assuming does. 😃 > > I’m having a hard time finding a single state-by-state breakdown of the definitions of “marijuana”, but apparently there is some variation. For example, my own state, Virginia, recently added stems and seeds to their definition. The US Code definition already included those items. Here in Chicago, the cops weigh not only the marijuana, but whatever “container” it is in. If it’s a ziploc, that’s not much. But a dugout weighs quite a bit. I’ve had several friends do time for the weight of their pipe. (I don’t know if this is actually how the law is written, but it is how it’s enforced - at least some of the time.) ---
**Author:** ![Agent\_Foxtrot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc29f/32.png) [@Agent\_Foxtrot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Agent_Foxtrot)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-police-lie-the-war-on-drugs/276947/39 "2004-11-29T02:29:59Z")
I went to the website of the newschannel (FOX 5 Cleveland) that reported that story. On their feedback page, I submitted this: > [@](#): > > Check your numbers on the story you reported here: [http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20041124/lo\_wews/2470113](http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u=/ibsys/20041124/lo_wews/2470113). Two hundred twenty-five pounds of marijuana is NOT worth $10.2 million. Please also refer to this link: [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=288851](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=288851). Thank you. Today I received an email from Colleen Seitz of FOX 5 Cleveland. Her response: > [@](#): > > Hi, > I’m sorry we got those figures from police. > Colleen Seitz Hello, Colleen! Did it not occur to you to question the numbers? How sloppy was _this_ reporting? Adam ---
**Author:** ![ralph124c](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/8797f3/32.png) [@ralph124c](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ralph124c)\ **Post date:** [November 29, 2004, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-police-lie-the-war-on-drugs/276947/40 "2004-11-29T05:57:34Z")
I assume that all such seized drugs are kept as evidence (pending the trial of those accused)? Where do the police keep such vast quantities of “killer” drugs like this? I recall years ago, reading that the cocaine seized in the “French Connection” drug bust in the 1960’s was kept in the NYCPD vaults. Years later (presumably when it was time to destroy the haul), most of it turned up missing! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-police-lie-the-war-on-drugs/276947.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-police-lie-the-war-on-drugs/276947.md?page=3)