# Why do the religious feel the need to impose their will on others? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 10, 2005, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-religious-feel-the-need-to-impose-their-will-on-others/284113 "2005-01-10T22:21:28Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 10\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-religious-feel-the-need-to-impose-their-will-on-others/284113/21 "2005-01-11T22:24:47Z")
> [@uglybeech](#): > > A religion that’s in your face and trying to convert you is going to grow faster than a religion that could[n’t] care less what you do. There’s some value, I think, in looking at the rise of and competition between various religions from a pseudo-Darwinian point of view. In other words, the religions themselves are basically neutral; it’s merely the characteristics of the various religions that cause them to spread faster or slower or stand fast in the face of a competing faith. Active evangelism is one such trait. Another one, as I’ve been pondering the last few weeks, is an external shell of militancy combined with an internal core of peace and love. Both Christianity and Islam have a fringe of hardcore believers who resort to violence to spread the word and beat back unbelievers; both Christianity and Islam are built around a message of tolerance that seems diametrically at odds with the actions of the extremists. Rather than trying to reconcile the contradiction, consider instead that this makes both faiths extremely successful in the pseudo-Darwinian model: You have “ambassadors” that introduce themselves forcefully and negatively to the outside world, and you have “apologists” who follow shortly after and say, in effect, “Those crazies don’t really represent us; we’re really about peace, love, and understanding; here, have some literature.” Additionally, the external fringe serves as a defensive perimeter, while the internal core is able to live more or less peacefully with itself. In this light, it shouldn’t be surprising that Christianity and Islam are among the most successful of the world religions, because their basic structure helps them spread quickly and effectively; and further it shouldn’t be surprising that the two philosophies, so similar structurally despite their many superficial differences, are now directly butting heads. Oh, and by the way, one observation regarding **Triskadecamus** ’s list of motives: Through this lens, we see that “religion” encompasses a whole lot more than just the typical church/mosque/temple activities; virtually everything on that list can be applied to the extremity of most beliefs, from environmentalism to free-market capitalism. In some ways, any time you have True Believers who are attempting to Get People To Believe Or At Least Comply Because It’s For Their Own Good, you have religion. ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-religious-feel-the-need-to-impose-their-will-on-others/284113/22 "2005-01-11T23:54:03Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > What’s math got to do with it? “Meme” junk aside, that sounds like a good explanation. > [@Cervaise](#): > > …a pseudo-Darwinian point of view… Do I sense some hostility to memes? Too trendy? I didn’t start from - and am not advocating - meme “junk.” In fact I _could care less_ since I barely know anything about memes. But thinking about the numbers tends to lead toward the thought that there are a lot of evangelicals around precisely because evangelicals evangelize. Or in other words, why are so many people in your face about religion? Because there are so many people in your face about religion. And she called two friends, and so on and so on…there’s your math, by the way. All that reminded me of Mr. Meme - who was it Dennett? It seemed like I was touching on or reproducing or validating or stealing his ideas, so I figured I should mention it. It was probably his meme that made me think in that direction anyway. > [@Marley23](#): > > although a religion with a lot of converts isn’t necessarily a successful one. Converting as many people as possible isn’t the goal of all religions. No it’s not an answer to the question what makes a successful religion. It is _one_ answer to the question - why are so many religious people bugging me? > [@Cervaise](#): > > Active evangelism is one such trait… I like your whole post, Cervaise, I think you’re basically saying that these religions are successful because they both have BIG carrots and BIG sticks. ---
**Author:** ![uglybeech](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/82dd89/32.png) [@uglybeech](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/uglybeech)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2005, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-religious-feel-the-need-to-impose-their-will-on-others/284113/23 "2005-01-11T23:57:40Z")
> [@CrankyAsAnOldMan](#): > > …What if you believed that you had found the cure for cancer? You really, truly, intensely believed that you had the formula that would end cancer for all time. And you’re on a cancer ward, with people all around you struggling, suffering and dying. Would you keep it the cure to yourself? Would you have a “it’s a free country, let them treat their cancer however they want, live and let live” attitude? Or would you tell others about it?.. Yeah, and I think this explains the pro-life people too. They believe they’re stopping the equivalent of the holocaust. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-religious-feel-the-need-to-impose-their-will-on-others/284113/24 "2005-01-12T00:05:24Z")
> [@uglybeech](#): > > No it’s not an answer to the question what makes a successful religion. It is _one_ answer to the question - why are so many religious people bugging me? Yes, it does answer that question and I agreed with you that it did. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-religious-feel-the-need-to-impose-their-will-on-others/284113/25 "2005-01-12T01:03:35Z")
> [@Jake the Plumber](#): > > Pet peeve. Could **n’t** care less. I could care less about your pet peeve. But not much less. No, I was not trying to be nasty. But the phrase “I could care less” is a quite valid expression. And I suspect it works better than the less irony-loaded “I couldn’t care less” expression. ---
**Author:** ![Jake\_the\_Plumber](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@Jake\_the\_Plumber](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake_the_Plumber)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-religious-feel-the-need-to-impose-their-will-on-others/284113/26 "2005-01-12T01:49:00Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > I could care less about your pet peeve. But not much less. > > No, I was not trying to be nasty. But the phrase “I could care less” is a quite valid expression. And I suspect it works better than the less irony-loaded “I couldn’t care less” expression. … do you even realize what you’re saying? I mean, seriously? Do you read what you write, or just type random strings of words together? Let’s do an exercise: **12 soldiers were killed in Iraq today** a) “I could care less.” b) “I couldn’t care less.” Apples? Oranges? ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-religious-feel-the-need-to-impose-their-will-on-others/284113/27 "2005-01-12T02:09:33Z")
> [@Jake the Plumber](#): > > … do you even realize what you’re saying? I mean, seriously? Do you read what you write, or just type random strings of words together? Get a **grip** on yourself, Plumber. There’s no need to be insulting, or condescending. Or if you choose to continue to do so, take it to the pit instead. One is an expression of outright dismissal. The other is one of dismissal touched with ironic sarcasm. Language has myriad subtleties and nuances. Best get accustomed to that fact. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 2:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-religious-feel-the-need-to-impose-their-will-on-others/284113/28 "2005-01-12T02:13:24Z")
[hijack] An essay on [I could care less](http://itre.cis.upenn.edu/~myl/languagelog/archives/001182.html) [/hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Farmwoman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8dc957/32.png) [@Farmwoman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Farmwoman)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-religious-feel-the-need-to-impose-their-will-on-others/284113/29 "2005-01-12T02:58:28Z")
[continue hijack] thanks **QtM** for nailing one of my peeves. Anyone living through the 1990’s would recognize: I could care less (NOT!) But some insist on watering down a perfectly ironic phrase because it fails to fell us with a hammer. [/continue hijack] > [@](#): > > Oh, and try to keep that snotty look off your face when someone comes to church in clothes that you deem inappropriate. While I don’t entirely disagree with your stance as you lay it out, I have to wonder if this oddly incongruous statement may be the burr under your saddle. You say you’re non-religious, which seems to imply that you don’t darken the church door too frequently…were you at a wedding? a funeral? christening? _were_ you dressed inappropriately for the occasion? Speaking as one who only enters a church under the above circumstances, I have to wonder… ---
**Author:** ![scm1001](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c4cdca/32.png) [@scm1001](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scm1001)\ **Post date:** [January 12, 2005, 9:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-religious-feel-the-need-to-impose-their-will-on-others/284113/30 "2005-01-12T09:59:50Z")
> [@dayton](#): > > Well excuse me. > > And for the record I have never imposed my morals or values on anyone. sorry I don’t believe it. You are prepared to let murderers, rapists, paedophiles do what ever they want? no - well you impose morals. you have never voted for a political party? and that political party has done stuff that others have disagreed with? You would let someone enter your house and take your stuff?, No -Then you believe in “private property” (not everyone does) You believe in democracy and would defend your country in a war? etc etc It is just that your “values and morals” are so much pretty middle of the road, that you just assume them to be true without even considering them or challenging them. We all have moral values and impose them on others all the time. This is not to say these values are not very sensible most of the time (if by sensible you mean preserving the current social structure) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-religious-feel-the-need-to-impose-their-will-on-others/284113.md?page=1)