# Why do the secret societies have so much power and freedom in America? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [June 4, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-secret-societies-have-so-much-power-and-freedom-in-america/660121 "2013-06-04T16:24:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-secret-societies-have-so-much-power-and-freedom-in-america/660121/1 "2013-06-04T16:24:21Z")
My real question is: “Do secret societies have power in other countries” Like communist countries for example? I have already googled skull and cross bones to see if President Obama is one of them … shocking to find out who is. Perhaps it’s just a college thingy being Yale and President Obama being Harvard. No hatred subject here (nothing to do with black and white) just wondering how they get away with being so powerful and free at the same time. Surely other countries don’t put up with it. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-secret-societies-have-so-much-power-and-freedom-in-america/660121/2 "2013-06-04T16:26:02Z")
Free? yes. Powerful? not really. I don’t think it’s so very much to “put up with.” ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-secret-societies-have-so-much-power-and-freedom-in-america/660121/3 "2013-06-04T16:29:56Z")
I’m curious, Mr Quatro. What “power” do you imagine Skull & Bones has? ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-secret-societies-have-so-much-power-and-freedom-in-america/660121/4 "2013-06-04T16:30:35Z")
Yeah, that’s very much an “assumes facts not in evidence” sort of statement. I don’t think you’ve shown they have any real power here much less in other countries. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-secret-societies-have-so-much-power-and-freedom-in-america/660121/5 "2013-06-04T16:48:03Z")
That’s kind of like asking why the Whiffenpoofs are able to operate so freely… ---
**Author:** ![TimeWinder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bcef8e/32.png) [@TimeWinder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TimeWinder)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-secret-societies-have-so-much-power-and-freedom-in-america/660121/6 "2013-06-04T16:51:07Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Free? yes. Powerful? not really. I don’t think it’s so very much to “put up with.” > [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > I’m curious, Mr Quatro. What “power” do you imagine Skull & Bones has? > [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > Yeah, that’s very much an “assumes facts not in evidence” sort of statement. I don’t think you’ve shown they have any real power here much less in other countries. > [@jayjay](#): > > That’s kind of like asking why the Whiffenpoofs are able to operate so freely… Ha Ha! The secret SDMB society is already suppressing this information! Let me help: Why so much freedom? Because everybody does. Why so much power? Because your imagination is running wild. These organizations are basically laughingstocks or beer clubs. They’re not the illuminati, secretly controlling the halls of power. (Or else they’re very, very good at it.) ---
**Author:** ![Oldeb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ea666f/32.png) [@Oldeb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oldeb)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-secret-societies-have-so-much-power-and-freedom-in-america/660121/7 "2013-06-04T16:55:43Z")
Correlation is not causation. Or at least in this case you have the cause backwards. The Skull and Bones attempts to recruit Yale students from wealthy families, politically connected families, or those with notable athletic talent. So if you look at their list of members you see… wealthy men, politically active men, and Olympic athletes. They’re members because they were already on the way to achieving those things; they didn’t achieve those things because they were members. As for having freedom, I have no idea what you mean. They don’t really seem to have any more freedom than other Frat groups. Maybe bit more because they have alumni who can lean on Yale to hide minor indiscretions, but I wouldn’t consider them more free or powerful than a group like Tau Kappa Epsilon. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-secret-societies-have-so-much-power-and-freedom-in-america/660121/8 "2013-06-04T16:59:19Z")
It’s not secret societies that you need to worry about; it’s the increased power, financing, and SCOTUS-blessed freedom of corporations and lobbyists that is going to implode our country at some point. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-secret-societies-have-so-much-power-and-freedom-in-america/660121/9 "2013-06-04T17:02:47Z")
I guess I was just judging them from their members list as having polictcal power, power to vote, power to sway, power to plant seeds to do things their way. Like someone else said it just a money thing with the Yale connection, but the real question is about why foreign countries don’t allow this freedom to act indepently of the ruling parties will. Wasn’t there something about benjamin franklin that was due to a naughty society in England? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-secret-societies-have-so-much-power-and-freedom-in-america/660121/10 "2013-06-04T17:11:25Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > I have already googled skull and cross bones to see if President Obama > is one of them … shocking to find out who is. > > Perhaps it’s just a college thingy being Yale and President Obama being Harvard. First of all the name of the group is Skull and Bones. Skull and Crossbones is the thing on the pirate flag. Secondly, wrong college. Obama was undergraduate at Occidental College before transferring to Columbia. Skull and Bones taps Yale undergraduates. Thirdly my guess is that Skull and Bones’ power might extend to knowing the secret phone number to Sally’s Apizza (the true sign of a New Haven VIP). ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 5:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-secret-societies-have-so-much-power-and-freedom-in-america/660121/11 "2013-06-04T17:12:06Z")
What do you mean that “foreign countries don’t allow this freedom to act indepently of the ruling parties will.” All politics in all countries are controlled by those already in power. People in power like to remain there, and they like to cultivate the next generation to continue in the same vein. In the US, some of the cultivation is in the form of college clubs. It may take other forms in other countries. but it is still there. ---
**Author:** ![moriah](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b2d939/32.png) [@moriah](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/moriah)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 5:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-secret-societies-have-so-much-power-and-freedom-in-america/660121/12 "2013-06-04T17:28:12Z")
I just Googled that there are outer space aliens invading our society. Why does the government allow that to happen? ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-secret-societies-have-so-much-power-and-freedom-in-america/660121/13 "2013-06-04T17:36:36Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > My real question is: “Do secret societies have power in other countries” > > Like communist countries for example? > > I have already googled skull and cross bones to see if President Obama > is one of them … shocking to find out who is. > > Perhaps it’s just a college thingy being Yale and President Obama being Harvard. > > No hatred subject here (nothing to do with black and white) just wondering how they get away with being so powerful and free at the same time. > > Surely other countries don’t put up with it. How secret can they be if you can google their membership rolls? ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-secret-societies-have-so-much-power-and-freedom-in-america/660121/14 "2013-06-04T17:38:39Z")
If they’re such a “secret,” how do you know about them? It’s the secret societies you DON’T know about that you have to worry about. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-secret-societies-have-so-much-power-and-freedom-in-america/660121/15 "2013-06-04T17:43:13Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > First of all the name of the group is Skull and Bones. Skull and Crossbones is the thing on the pirate flag. Secondly, wrong college. Obama was undergraduate at Occidental College before transferring to Columbia. Skull and Bones taps Yale undergraduates. Thirdly my guess is that Skull and Bones’ power might extend to knowing the secret phone number to Sally’s Apizza (the true sign of a New Haven VIP). Truth. If I had the political connections, maybe I wouldn’t need to wait in line at Sally’s, or I could use the (fabled) back entrance. ---
**Author:** ![dracoi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/90db22/32.png) [@dracoi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dracoi)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 5:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-secret-societies-have-so-much-power-and-freedom-in-america/660121/16 "2013-06-04T17:46:32Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > I guess I was just judging them from their members list as having polictcal power, power to vote, power to sway, power to plant seeds to do things their way. > > Like someone else said it just a money thing with the Yale connection, but the real question is about why foreign countries don’t allow this freedom to act indepently of the ruling parties will. While there are lots of freedoms that foreign countries limit, I don’t know how they could limit something like Skull and Bones, which is such a “soft” form of power. I mean, there’s no conspiracy there. People like to work with people they already know, and that applies at any level of power or wealth. If you pass someone with a flat tire, you’re guaranteed to stop and help if it’s your mom. You’ll probably stop for any family member or friend. You’ll be more likely to stop for a casual acquaintance, but you’ll almost certainly drive by if it’s a complete stranger. The same is basically true for anything; acquaintances are more likely to be hired by a CEO, appointed by a President, etc. Skull and Bones is notable because its members are notable. But there’s no deep conspiracy there. ---
**Author:** ![Mr\_Quatro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/bc8723/32.png) [@Mr\_Quatro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr_Quatro)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 5:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-secret-societies-have-so-much-power-and-freedom-in-america/660121/17 "2013-06-04T17:50:54Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > First of all the name of the group is Skull and Bones. Skull and Crossbones is the thing on the pirate flag. Secondly, wrong college. Obama was undergraduate at Occidental College before transferring to Columbia. Skull and Bones taps Yale undergraduates. Thirdly my guess is that Skull and Bones’ power might extend to knowing the secret phone number to Sally’s Apizza (the true sign of a New Haven VIP). Wow! I missed that one … yes it is Skull and Bones not the pirate one lol but President Obama did attend Harvard it’s just not quite clear how he paid for it (another secret) **“Sen. Obama has refused to instruct Harvard Law School to release any information about his time there as a student, or about his student loans.”** > [@](#): > > Newsmax contacted the Dean of Students, the Director of Student Financial Services, the Registrar, and the Bursar of Harvard Law School. None would provide any specific information on Barack Obama’s time at Harvard, except for his dates of attendance (1988-1991) or his year of graduation, 1991. > > A spokesman for the law school, Michael Armini, said it was Harvard policy not to divulge information on alumni without their approval. > [http://www.newsmax.com/KenTimmerman/obama-harvard-/2009/12/14/id/342454/#ixzz2VGpyNU9Y](http://www.newsmax.com/KenTimmerman/obama-harvard-/2009/12/14/id/342454/#ixzz2VGpyNU9Y) ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-secret-societies-have-so-much-power-and-freedom-in-america/660121/18 "2013-06-04T18:00:30Z")
Cool. I would sue the britches off my alma mater if they released any of my records without my express permission. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 6:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-secret-societies-have-so-much-power-and-freedom-in-america/660121/19 "2013-06-04T18:01:19Z")
Ummm…you are aware that Harvard and Yale are not the same place, right? ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [June 4, 2013, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-secret-societies-have-so-much-power-and-freedom-in-america/660121/20 "2013-06-04T18:09:40Z")
> [@Mr\_Quatro](#): > > but President Obama did attend Harvard it’s just not quite clear how he paid for it (another secret) > > **“Sen. Obama has refused to instruct Harvard Law School to release any information about his time there as a student, or about his student loans.”** What conspiracy are you imagining about Obama’s attendance at Harvard Law School? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-secret-societies-have-so-much-power-and-freedom-in-america/660121.md?page=2)