# Why do the some of same people think alcohol is good think guns are bad? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [March 8, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-some-of-same-people-think-alcohol-is-good-think-guns-are-bad/652383 "2013-03-08T15:06:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-some-of-same-people-think-alcohol-is-good-think-guns-are-bad/652383/1 "2013-03-08T15:06:33Z")
I think both should be legal, but I can at least see some consistency in the view that both should be illegal. However with all the cons associated with alcohol use (cirrosis, drunk driving, fetal alcoholism, increased risk of both suicide and homicide, etc) I can’t see any consistency in the view that pros of alcohol outweigh those cons but the pros of owning guns don’t outweigh the associated cons. Seems hypocritical to me and based on selfish wants rather than principle. So what am I missing? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-some-of-same-people-think-alcohol-is-good-think-guns-are-bad/652383/2 "2013-03-08T15:12:02Z")
What are you missing? How about the fact that the two have absolutely no relation to each other. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-some-of-same-people-think-alcohol-is-good-think-guns-are-bad/652383/3 "2013-03-08T15:13:30Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > I think both should be legal, but I can at least see some consistency in the view that both should be illegal. However with all the cons associated with alcohol use (cirrosis, drunk driving, fetal alcoholism, increased risk of both suicide and homicide, etc) I can’t see any consistency in the view that pros of alcohol outweigh those cons but the pros of owning guns don’t outweigh the associated cons. Seems hypocritical to me and based on selfish wants rather than principle. > > So what am I missing? You are missing that people are terrible at risk assessment. Alcohol they (think) they understand, and (think) they understand the risks. They don’t realize that they are many times more likely to die as a result of alcohol than they are from gun violence, even if they live in an inner city ghetto chalked full of gang bangers. Guns, especially to those who are the most opposed to them, are scary and little understood…and that’s usually what captured peopled imaginations and worry. It’s like the folks who worry about the air plane they are going to be flying on crashing, while driving to the air port snacking on a big mac (with extra fries and a diet coke) while talking on their cell phone and maybe texting their friend… ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-some-of-same-people-think-alcohol-is-good-think-guns-are-bad/652383/4 "2013-03-08T15:14:17Z")
I am unaware of anyone who wants alcohol to be legal and guns to be illegal. ---
**Author:** ![EmilyG](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/emilyg/32/364_2.png) [@EmilyG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmilyG)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-some-of-same-people-think-alcohol-is-good-think-guns-are-bad/652383/5 "2013-03-08T15:14:38Z")
Guns are more in danger of directly killing someone. If someone has one or two beers, he probably isn’t that dangerous. Honestly, I don’t really see the connection/relation between guns and alcohol. ---
**Author:** ![2sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/2/e47774/32.png) [@2sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/2sense)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-some-of-same-people-think-alcohol-is-good-think-guns-are-bad/652383/6 "2013-03-08T15:14:44Z")
Perhaps context is what you are missing. Someone favoring a complete ban on guns and absolutely no laws restricting alcohol whatsoever (even for kids) would be hypocritical as you say but how many people like this are out there? I imagine the vast majority of us fall into a more nuanced view that both alcohol and firearms need some degree of regulation. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-some-of-same-people-think-alcohol-is-good-think-guns-are-bad/652383/7 "2013-03-08T15:15:05Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What are you missing? How about the fact that the two have absolutely no relation to each other. They are related in that they are both things that society (well, our society) accept some risk over by allowing citizens to have legal access to them. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-some-of-same-people-think-alcohol-is-good-think-guns-are-bad/652383/8 "2013-03-08T15:17:36Z")
[QUOTE=EmilyG] Guns are more in danger of directly killing someone. If someone has one or two beers, he probably isn’t that dangerous. [/QUOTE] Simply put, you are wrong. You are much more likely to be killed in an alcohol related accident than by a gun. As much as an order of magnitude more likely if you put in all of the alcohol related harm and health risks as well, IIRC…and that’s world wide, not just in the US. ---
**Author:** ![steronz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steronz/32/11765_2.png) [@steronz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steronz)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 3:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-some-of-same-people-think-alcohol-is-good-think-guns-are-bad/652383/9 "2013-03-08T15:17:45Z")
I think both should be legal. I also think both are often abused, and great care should be taken when owning or using both. I think alcohol abuse is becoming decreasingly acceptable. Nobody has wet bars in their offices anymore, the 2 martini lunch is a thing of the past, and drunk driving is actually treated seriously by _everyone_, from cops to companies to friends. Living in a society that (mostly) doesn’t worship alcohol is definitely an improvement, and we were able to get to this point without banning alcohol (once we learned the hard way that it wouldn’t work). I don’t see why we can’t do the same thing with guns. We can move forward as a society without an outright ban. I drink and I shoot on occasion, for the record. ---
**Author:** ![BobLibDem](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/boblibdem/32/3149_2.png) [@BobLibDem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BobLibDem)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-some-of-same-people-think-alcohol-is-good-think-guns-are-bad/652383/10 "2013-03-08T15:26:11Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I am unaware of anyone who wants alcohol to be legal and guns to be illegal. I’m in this category. In moderation, drinking is fine. You’re not going to kill anyone unless you commit the crime of DUI. Nobody ever went to a liquor store with the intent of buying something that would kill someone. Guns (apart from hunting) have one purpose: killing people. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-some-of-same-people-think-alcohol-is-good-think-guns-are-bad/652383/11 "2013-03-08T15:27:32Z")
> [@steronz](#): > > I think alcohol abuse is becoming decreasingly acceptable. Nobody has wet bars in their offices anymore, the 2 martini lunch is a thing of the past, and drunk driving is actually treated seriously by _everyone_, from cops to companies to friends. Living in a society that (mostly) doesn’t worship alcohol is definitely an improvement, and we were able to get to this point without banning alcohol (once we learned the hard way that it wouldn’t work). I don’t see why we can’t do the same thing with guns. We can move forward as a society without an outright ban. Should we maybe do background checks so that criminals and alcoholics can’t get alcohol? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 3:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-some-of-same-people-think-alcohol-is-good-think-guns-are-bad/652383/12 "2013-03-08T15:29:59Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Should we maybe do background checks so that criminals and alcoholics can’t get alcohol? That’s why comparing the two is ridiculous: How would a background check show if someone is an alcoholic? ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-some-of-same-people-think-alcohol-is-good-think-guns-are-bad/652383/13 "2013-03-08T15:30:04Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Simply put, you are wrong. You are much more likely to be killed in an alcohol related accident than by a gun. As much as an order of magnitude more likely if you put in all of the alcohol related harm and health risks as well, IIRC…and that’s world wide, not just in the US. UGH! And you are exceptionally unlikely - like “orders of magnitude” less likely relative to alcohol or guns - to be killed by sarin gas. You’re absolutely right that (some) people are terrible at risk assessment. Unfortunately you appear to be one such person. ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-some-of-same-people-think-alcohol-is-good-think-guns-are-bad/652383/14 "2013-03-08T15:31:40Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’m in this category. In moderation, drinking is fine. You’re not going to kill anyone unless you commit the crime of DUI. Nobody ever went to a liquor store with the intent of buying something that would kill someone. Guns (apart from hunting) have one purpose: killing people. There’s also all sorts of recreational activities with guns plinking, trap, skeet, sporting clays, cowboy action shooting, IPSC, bullseye, smallbore, etc, etc, etc. And you’re not going to kill anyone unless you commit the crime of murder or negligent discharge of a firearm… ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-some-of-same-people-think-alcohol-is-good-think-guns-are-bad/652383/15 "2013-03-08T15:32:01Z")
> [@BobLibDem](#): > > I’m in this category. In moderation, drinking is fine. You’re not going to kill anyone unless you commit the crime of DUI. Nobody ever went to a liquor store with the intent of buying something that would kill someone. Guns (apart from hunting) have one purpose: killing people. What a ridiculous statement to make. So, drinking in moderation is fine and relatively risk free, but anyone buying a gun is doing so with the intent to kill someone? That’s the sole purpose of owning a gun, in your lofty opinion? And yet…alcohol kills well over 75,000 people in the US a year (directly)…while guns kill less than 15,000 a year (and this counts all the suicide deaths btw). So, why is it that a device who’s supposed sole purpose is killing managed to kill so many less Americans each year than one who you find pretty much harmless, if used ‘in moderation’? Guns seem much less efficient killers, to be honest, since according to you their sole purpose is killing, while alcohol seems a much better killer, especially considering you think it’s fine. Curious, no? ---
**Author:** ![Kable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ed655f/32.png) [@Kable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kable)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-some-of-same-people-think-alcohol-is-good-think-guns-are-bad/652383/16 "2013-03-08T15:33:03Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > That’s why comparing the two is ridiculous: How would a background check show if someone is an alcoholic? You could put in the system if the are a member of AA, or had a history of DUIs. If it saves one life… ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-some-of-same-people-think-alcohol-is-good-think-guns-are-bad/652383/17 "2013-03-08T15:34:44Z")
> [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](#): > > UGH! > > And you are exceptionally unlikely - like “orders of magnitude” less likely relative to alcohol or guns - to be killed by sarin gas. > > You’re absolutely right that (some) people are terrible at risk assessment. Unfortunately you appear to be one such person. Why? Did I claim that we need to be exceptionally concerned with death by ‘sarin gas’? You seem exceptionally good at strawman creation…other than that, not much, sadly. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-some-of-same-people-think-alcohol-is-good-think-guns-are-bad/652383/18 "2013-03-08T15:34:53Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > You could put in the system if the are a member of AA… Heh. You don’t know what that second A means, do you… ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-some-of-same-people-think-alcohol-is-good-think-guns-are-bad/652383/19 "2013-03-08T15:34:54Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > You could put in the system if the are a member of AA Consider what the second A in AA stands for. And there are some situations in which people are not allowed to drink alcohol, although I think that’s usually a short-term thing. It’s easier to take their drivers’ licenses. And yes, this is pretty weak stuff. People assess the risks of gun ownership and drinking alcohol differently, and few people believe either one should be banned entirely. There is also a world of difference between thinking something is bad and saying it should be outlawed. ---
**Author:** ![Ulfreida](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ulfreida/32/8014_2.png) [@Ulfreida](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ulfreida)\ **Post date:** [March 8, 2013, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-some-of-same-people-think-alcohol-is-good-think-guns-are-bad/652383/20 "2013-03-08T15:35:28Z")
It is easy to imagine a person who enjoys a social glass of wine or a beer who doesn’t understand why we need to have little machines designed to murder people all over the place. At least, it is for me for some reason. In an hour I am leaving to go sing at a funeral Mass for a police officer shot through a door while making a routine call. She left two children age 2 1/2 and 5. It is hard to kill somebody through a door with a knife. We expect the whole city to show up. Yes, I have an opinion. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-the-some-of-same-people-think-alcohol-is-good-think-guns-are-bad/652383.md?page=2)