# Why do they still do "Woman vs. Woman" fights in movies and TV? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Tags:** tv-shows-scripted, movies\ **Created:** [February 16, 2023, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-they-still-do-woman-vs-woman-fights-in-movies-and-tv/979884 "2023-02-16T12:35:09Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2023, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-they-still-do-woman-vs-woman-fights-in-movies-and-tv/979884/21 "2023-02-16T20:08:02Z")
> [@Horatius](#): > > Yeah, this is just the gender-based version of what I call the “Superhero Sorting Algorithm”. I suspect it’s this, with a side order of “Cat fight!” ---
**Author:** ![Seanette](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/seanette/32/9139_2.png) [@Seanette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Seanette)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2023, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-they-still-do-woman-vs-woman-fights-in-movies-and-tv/979884/22 "2023-02-16T20:25:42Z")
That and if a fight involves a man hitting a woman, there’s howls of “misogyny!” and “abuse!”, even if the woman started it. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2023, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-they-still-do-woman-vs-woman-fights-in-movies-and-tv/979884/23 "2023-02-16T23:07:08Z")
Being in between “good” movies, I clicked on a series I’d seen before, “Chuck”, …and got hooked. It’s fun to identify old fashions, ‘cutting edge’ tech, and “things they wouldn’t have in an episode today”. Last night’s was two female spies deciding to resolve an old conflict … by saying “You want to do this? Let’s decide this… once and for all!” And they strip down to their workout outfits (that they just happened to be wearing under business casual), grab a low-tech weapon (long broomhandles just seem to be handy), and proceed to “fight” it out. “Fight” is in quotes, because it was more like a rehearsal for a bad kung fu movie. Now, during spy/cop/superhero movies I often just say _“Annnd… (yawn) fight scene…”_ as I fast-forward. This one was so inadvertently absurd that I watched, then felt stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2023, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-they-still-do-woman-vs-woman-fights-in-movies-and-tv/979884/24 "2023-02-16T23:11:22Z")
Speaking of Gina Carano… _Haywire_ is basically Carano fighting her way through the male cast. The fight between her and Michael Fassbender is very brutal. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2023, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-they-still-do-woman-vs-woman-fights-in-movies-and-tv/979884/25 "2023-02-16T23:19:12Z")
> [@Seanette](#): > > That and if a fight involves a man hitting a woman, there’s howls of “misogyny!” and “abuse!”, even if the woman started it. Can you give an example of this? I mean an example of a movie or TV show that featured a man fighting a woman, and people getting outraged over it? I can’t think of a single one. I can think of a lot of examples of men and women fighting and it being not a thing at all. Like Wolverine vs. Lady Deathstrike. I relish those scenes. But I agree it’s not very realistic. Men will overwhelmingly win in a fight against a woman unless she strikes first and strikes hard. I’d say if a man lands a single blow against a woman her odds of winning go down tremendously. (That’s probably why people ostensibly “howl” over it, because in reality it’s a fundamentally unfair fight.) In Lady Deathstrike’s case, I’d say she had pretty good odds. Super heroes are a sort of exception because in those universes, women CAN be as powerful, if not more powerful, than men. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 16, 2023, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-they-still-do-woman-vs-woman-fights-in-movies-and-tv/979884/26 "2023-02-16T23:19:23Z")
> [@Wolf333](#): > > _Haywire_ is basically Carano fighting her way through the male cast. The fight between her and Michael Fassbender is very brutal. I might have to see that. ---
**Author:** ![Love\_Rhombus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/love_rhombus/32/10694_2.png) [@Love\_Rhombus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Love_Rhombus)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2023, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-they-still-do-woman-vs-woman-fights-in-movies-and-tv/979884/27 "2023-02-17T01:15:40Z")
She’s an example of a woman believably beating up several guys. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2023, 8:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-they-still-do-woman-vs-woman-fights-in-movies-and-tv/979884/28 "2023-02-17T08:38:24Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Can you give an example of this? I mean an example of a movie or TV show that featured a man fighting a woman, and people getting outraged over it? I can’t think of a single one. There was a bit of a flap in 2016 over a poster for one of the _X-Men_ movies that showed a female character being choked. The studio apologized. > **[Fox apologizes for controversial 'X-Men: Apocalypse' poster](https://ew.com/article/2016/06/03/rose-mcgowan-x-men-apocalypse-choking-poster/)** > > The image, featuring Mystique being strangled, was slammed by actress Rose McGowan ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2023, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-they-still-do-woman-vs-woman-fights-in-movies-and-tv/979884/29 "2023-02-17T10:03:15Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > There was a bit of a flap in 2016 over a poster for one of the _X-Men_ movies that showed a female character being choked. The studio apologized. > > [Fox apologizes for controversial 'X-Men: Apocalypse' poster](https://ew.com/article/2016/06/03/rose-mcgowan-x-men-apocalypse-choking-poster/) But that’s not a fight, that’s abuse. There may have been a fight that led to him chocking her, but we don’t see it in the picture. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2023, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-they-still-do-woman-vs-woman-fights-in-movies-and-tv/979884/30 "2023-02-17T10:05:37Z")
On the “unrealistic” thing, it depends if we’re talking in-universe or not. Because, on lesser discussion forums, and social media, you often get rants about how unrealistic it is for women to win fights against men…yet they are often talking about the kind of movie where one guy simultaneously fights a dozen guys, or can be thrown into a wall or whatever at a speed that would turn a real human into hamburger patty. If we’re being consistent in the level of disbelief, it’s no problem to imagine a woman in-universe being badass enough to do all this too. But…back in the real world, if nothing else, we’re familiar with the physics of different masses of humans. When a male hero squares off against a man who is noticeably taller and heavier than him, that is generally respected in the fight; the hero might win, but he can’t throw the big guy around (unless it’s a superhero movie, and often not even then). As unrealistic as everything else is allowed to be, this seems to be an important thing to keep grounded. If a movie casts a 90 pound woman as the hero, then, staying consistent with this grounding, _every fight_ with a man needs to be like Indiana Jones fighting the big guy under the airplane propeller. ---
**Author:** ![Horatius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/horatius/32/3572_2.png) [@Horatius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Horatius)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2023, 2:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-they-still-do-woman-vs-woman-fights-in-movies-and-tv/979884/31 "2023-02-17T14:07:16Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > Super heroes are a sort of exception because in those universes, women CAN be as powerful, if not more powerful, than men. This was an argument I used to have with a friend about Buffy the Vampire Slayer. He thought it was unrealistic to have a small teenage girl kicking ass, but I argued that as a Slayer, she was at least mildly a superhero of mystical origins. If you don’t have a problem with a teen aged Peter Parker having enhanced strength, there’s no reason to complain about the Slayer. She’s not a regular girl, which is the whole point. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2023, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-they-still-do-woman-vs-woman-fights-in-movies-and-tv/979884/32 "2023-02-17T17:22:45Z")
> [@Alessan](#): > > But that’s not a fight, that’s abuse. There may have been a fight that led to him chocking her, but we don’t see it in the picture. It’s a poster for a superhero movie; I think they’re probably fighting. That you assume it’s abuse kinda illustrates the double standard that @Seanette was getting at. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2023, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-they-still-do-woman-vs-woman-fights-in-movies-and-tv/979884/33 "2023-02-17T17:43:03Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > It’s a poster for a superhero movie; I think they’re probably fighting. That you assume it’s abuse kinda illustrates the double standard that @Seanette was getting at. Noting that the image _looks_ like abuse isn’t the same as “assuming” it’s about abuse. I’m guessing everyone who complained twigged to the fact that it was a superhero movie, based on the two characters having blue skin and the big “X-Men” logo on the ad. And, most importantly in the context of this thread, nobody who complained about the poster complained about the movie featuring fight scenes between men and women. “Your advertisement for your superhero movie looks like a domestic abuse image,” is not remotely the same criticism as, “You can’t have male characters in your movie hit female characters.” ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2023, 6:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-they-still-do-woman-vs-woman-fights-in-movies-and-tv/979884/34 "2023-02-17T18:10:35Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > Noting that the image _looks_ like abuse… What is it about that image that looks like abuse, though? Would it still be abuse if it was two men, or two women? I understand that there are different social contexts and expectations of violence directed at different genders. I just think it’s interesting to examine when they apply, and when they don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2023, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-they-still-do-woman-vs-woman-fights-in-movies-and-tv/979884/35 "2023-02-17T18:15:24Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > What is it about that image that looks like abuse, though? The part where he’s choking her? Sorry, I’m not sure how this is a question? > [@](#): > > Would it still be abuse if it was two men, or two women? You mean something like this? > **[Why is everyone talking about a racist Sony ad that’s 10 years old?](https://www.polygon.com/2017/4/5/15190396/sony-psp-ad-white-is-coming-pepsi-kendall-jenner)** > > Advertising is really bad lately ---
**Author:** ![Jasmine](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jasmine/32/2964_2.png) [@Jasmine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jasmine)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2023, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-they-still-do-woman-vs-woman-fights-in-movies-and-tv/979884/36 "2023-02-17T18:20:50Z")
The target demographic for action movies is young, hormone driven guys, and they like girl fights. LOL ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2023, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-they-still-do-woman-vs-woman-fights-in-movies-and-tv/979884/37 "2023-02-17T18:45:06Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > What is it about that image that looks like abuse, though? Would it still be abuse if it was two men, or two women? Hi, person who works for a domestic violence and sexual assault agency checking in. Strangulation is extremely common in domestic abuse. It’s so common that my agency has a dedicated forensic team for domestic violence strangulation. It’s also a major indicator of lethal risk. Since we’re recognizing that men are stronger than women, do you understand why it might be more difficult for a woman to strangle a man, or a man to strangle another man? No, this is typically how abusive men control women. The ad was probably triggering for a lot of survivors of domestic violence who suffer from PTSD as a result of their experiences. I don’t have a particular trigger for that (or experience as a victim of domestic abuse, unless you count my mother), but I can see why some women would. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2023, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-they-still-do-woman-vs-woman-fights-in-movies-and-tv/979884/38 "2023-02-17T19:21:12Z")
> [@Spice\_Weasel](#): > > The ad was probably triggering for a lot of survivors of domestic violence who suffer from PTSD as a result of their experiences. I don’t have a particular trigger for that (or experience as a victim of domestic abuse, unless you count my mother), but I can see why some women would. I can see how it would be triggering, too. I’m not questioning that. It’s also common in superhero movies for the hero to get the crap kicked out of them for most of the film, so they can get up off the mat, fight back, and triumph at the end. I can see how it’s a tough balancing act to show women in heroic roles fighting back, without the triggering aspect of them losing a fight. ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2023, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-they-still-do-woman-vs-woman-fights-in-movies-and-tv/979884/39 "2023-02-17T19:33:16Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > It’s also common in superhero movies for the hero to get the crap kicked out of them for most of the film, so they can get up off the mat, fight back, and triumph at the end. Bu again, nobody was complaining about the movie, they were complaining about the _ad_. The ad doesn’t have an “end” where she’s triumphant. The ad is just a woman being choked, without any subsequent or prior scenes of her not being a helpless victim. ---
**Author:** ![Asuka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/dec6dc/32.png) [@Asuka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Asuka)\ **Post date:** [February 17, 2023, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-they-still-do-woman-vs-woman-fights-in-movies-and-tv/979884/40 "2023-02-17T21:15:18Z")
It’s been a while but I remember the James Bond movies are surprisingly grounded, Bond never beats the big henchmen in a straight up fight despite Bond himself being a trained fighter, he has to almost always use either cleverness or cunning to beat the big guys. Or has one of his allies help him out. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-they-still-do-woman-vs-woman-fights-in-movies-and-tv/979884.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-they-still-do-woman-vs-woman-fights-in-movies-and-tv/979884.md?page=3)