New York’s VHF channel lineup:
2: CBS
4: NBC
5: Fox
7: ABC
11: WB
And two more that might have been part of the same channel assignment (I don’t know either way):
9: UPN (Secaucus, New Jersey, which is about 5 miles off the tip of lower Manhattan, even with Staten Island)
Livin’ on Tums, vitamin E and Rogaine
“A related question, why do TV manufacturers advertise cable ready TVs with ‘X’ number
of channels (recently I heard about a 256 digital channel cable ready set)? Since most
cable companies with more than about 50 or 60 channels in their service require a
converter box that outputs on channel 3 or 4. Seems to me that a better definition of a
cable ready set would be one that has only channels 3 and 4! Even better, drop the
tuner altogether to cut the costs of the set and let the cable boxes output composite
video and audio (some of them do already).”
Not everyone wants to pay the extra five bucks for the converter. I’ve got TeeVees all over the house, but only one converter. I can get all but four channels (two premium channels and the “In Demand” four-dollar per view local movie channels). I just use the converter for an old (ancient) set in the basement with the old clunker-style tuner. If I had to rent converters for three or four more sets, I would buy satellite. Better quality, but much more expensive, and my eyes can’t tell the difference from accross the room anyway.
That, and multi-channel tuners are fairly cheap to produce. It wouldn’t take much off the price of the set to not have one, and to not have a cable-ready tuner would make your product singularly brain damaged when compared to other products.
The answer to the last question is because composite video and audio is not very good. It does not do much good, as an example, to sell a digital cable product with fantastic resolution and sound and make it look and sound as bad as an analog broadcast signal by piping it through the composite RF connection.
The New York stations would all be considered the same market.
To be precise, not all of the LA stations are in Los Angeles, the NBC affiliate is in Burbank.
The other six stations are in Los Angeles.
I am pretty sure that all the transmitters are on Mount Wilson (which isn’t in any city)
Actually channel assignment is more political than anything.
Technically you could have 2,4,6,7,9,11,&13. That would be 7 stations.
But if you look at markets like Tampa they should not have ch 10. Miami had it. So they made it a short 10. Less power.
We got a low power 23 in Chgo. But its trans is on the Sears Tower so it reaches better than our full power 62.
Hmmm… I just noticed my cable is fed through channel 3 too. What’s funny is I’m forced to use two remote controls, one for volume, and one for selecting the individual cable channels from my cable box…
tbea925 writes:
This only works with some cable services and even then only for the next few years. Due to the government mandated conversion of broadcasts to digital, by 2005 there will be no analog signals to be had (probably earlier in some areas). All TVs that are not “digital-ready” will require a converter box.
I agree with your first statement, they’d be cheaper to produce. I sort of agree with your second statement, though not for the reasons you state. The current “intrinsic value” that retailers attach to channels is about a dollar per channel. In other words, two TVs with identical features except that one tuner supports 50 channels more than the other will cost the consumer about $50 more. The problem is that 95% of this is pure margin. Manufacturers and retailers would never just give that margin away, so if TVs were made available with no tuners, they would find some other “feature” to charge consumers with. As to your third statement, I’d buy a TV that had only channels 3 and 4 if it meant that the cost of the set were $150 cheaper, but as I said that would never happen… so, like some consumer technology cold war the number of cable channels continues to escalate…
First, composite video is not RF. Second, I think you’re confusing digital broadcast with high definition. The fact that the incomming broadcast is digital has nothing to do with the display characteristics. You might have an argument that you can’t use composite video with high definition TV due to bandwidth limitations… but, that’s not valid either because there are composite video standards that can handle the extra bandwidth required to support HDTV. In fact, most HDTV equipment have multiple composite video inputs and outputs… why? Because you first statement in the last paragraph is completely bass-ackwards. Composite video is much higher fidelity than the coax that runs between your VCR and TV or your cable box and TV.
Originally, NYC had 2, 4, 5, 7, 9, and 11, and Newark had 13. But the Newark station was a money loser, and in the early 60’s the FCC eventually allowed it to be sold to New York and NET (ancestor, more or less, of PBS). That left the entire state of NJ with no VHF station, which produced quite a few complaints.
Some years back, the parent company of Channel 9 got caught doing something they shouldn’t, and as “punishment” they were forced to move their offices to Secaucus, a completely undistinguished town just barely over the state line. Of course, as soon as they did, the FCC pretty much forgot the whole New Jersey issue, and it was back to business as usual for most purposes. The UHF PBS stations of New Jersey Network continue to be the only real New Jersey stations.
John W. Kennedy
“Compact is becoming contract; man only earns and pays.”
– Charles Williams
Just wondering, what did WOR-9 do back then to be met with such a fate?
It wasn’t WOR (WWOR now) itself, but its then owner, a tire manufacturer. I couldn’t recall the details when I made the earlier post, and I still can’t. Some sort of accounting no-no, I think.
John W. Kennedy
“Compact is becoming contract; man only earns and pays.”
– Charles Williams
Hey Handy! Congrats on your 3000 post!
I’ll be there someday…
I hate to beat this topic any more to death, but I just found this out last night from one of my son’s Boy Scout merit badge books.
As has been noted, not all TV channels are next to each other, even though their numbers are. And in fact, there is a little gap in frequency between Channels 3 and 4. As a result the spectrum looks like this.
2-3, 4-5-6, (and then a big gap) 7-13.
As a result, it makes sense to have a VCR, videogame or whatever switch between 3 and 4, because – compared to the other channel pairs – there will be less chance it would interfere with the TV station next to it.
The little break in frequency also allowed the FCC to offset channels 4 and 5 (4 would transmit a little below its center frequency, and 5 a little above) which is why in xome cities you’ll see both Channel 4 and 5, but never any other two adjacent channels.
As for why the equipment isn’t set on the high-band (7-13) VHF, my guess would be that because during the early days of TV, the high band was considered harder to work with, and they tried to do as much in the lower frequencies as possible. And that’s how industry standards are born.
Have we moved into MPSIMS yet?
From the olden days when I lived in Dallas before cable arrived:
2–became KDTN-PBS
4–KDFW-CBS
5–KXAS-NBC
8–WFAA-ABC
11–KXTX (Independent)
13–KERA-PBS
Of course, it’s changed since then. But it breaks your pattern: 8 instead of 7 and 9. ¡Lo siento mucho!
Sure, that’s only six stations (now that I’m counting), but still…
So why was it verboten to assign different stations to channels 3 and 4 in the same area, but perfectly OK to assign different stations to channels 4 and 5 in the same area?
Because the channels are not all really adjacent. That’s one reason that 99% of televisions have, unlike radios, always used discontinuous tuning controls. There is a gap between 4 and 5 and a big gap between 6 and 7 (FM radio lives there, along with several other things). There may be other gaps, too; I’m not an expert.
John W. Kennedy
“Compact is becoming contract; man only earns and pays.”
– Charles Williams
I feel a little quantification is in order…
From my ever-so-handy Handbook of Electronic Tables & Formulas, 5th edition, 1979: (It’s an oldie but a goodie!)
key:
P = picture carrier frequency (MHz)
S = sound carrier frequency (MHz)
Ch. 2 P = 55.25, S = 59.75
Ch. 3 P = 61.25, S = 65.75
Ch. 4 P = 67.25, S = 71.75
(here’s the first significant gap)
Ch. 5 P = 77.25, S = 81.75
Ch. 6 P = 83.25, S = 87.75
(here’s the second significant gap; note that it includes 89 MHz to 107 MHz, the FM radio band. It also includes the 2-meter ham radio band, 144-148 MHz)
Ch. 7 P = 175.25, S = 179.25
Ch. 8 P = 181.25, S = 185.75
…and so on, somewhat continuously (I’m getting bored with typing these things), 'till…
Ch. 13 P = 211.25, S = 215.75
And here’s the big gap between VHF, very high frequency (30-300 MHz), and UHF, ultra-high frequency (300-3000 MHz).
Ch. 14 P = 471.25, S = 475.75.
Enjoy!
Pantellerite
So what lives in the ~4 MHz gap between channel 4 and channel 5?
Chief’s Domain - http://www.seas.ucla.edu/~ravi