# Why do Trump and other "conservatives" want to defund opera and other arts? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 7, 2017, 8:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-trump-and-other-conservatives-want-to-defund-opera-and-other-arts/783963 "2017-04-07T08:32:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-trump-and-other-conservatives-want-to-defund-opera-and-other-arts/783963/81 "2017-04-07T21:01:06Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Oh, for fuck’s sake, the NEA doesn’t exist to make music “enjoyed by rich people”; it exists so that music (and arts of other forms) can be enjoyed by everyone. The entire point is to make are and entertainment available to the general public at costs comparable to other entertainments without being covered in ads […] Exactly. Here are just a few listings of recent NEA grants in the field of music that are emphatically not just for consumption by rich people: > [@](#): > > Cleveland OH: To support music performances for elderly audiences. Monthly performances by conservatory-educated young musicians will take place in nursing homes, hospices, and senior centers. […] > > Birmingham AL: To support “Celebrate America,” an annual free concert event. In April 2000, in downtown Birmingham’s historic Linn Park, the Alabama Symphony will present a concert recognizing veterans of World War II. […] > > Albany NY: To support the American Music Festival: Indigenous Americana. The five-day festival focuses on indigenous arts, folk culture, and roots movements in North America. […] > > Lorman MS: To support the Alcorn State University Jazz Festival. The festival will feature free performances by middle school through university-level jazz ensembles from across the nation; an educational workshop conducted by an NEA Jazz Master; and a performance by the Ramsey Lewis Quintet. […] > > Alexandria VA: To support Music Makes a Difference, an education program for school children. Plans include concerts for students in grades three through five where performances of Gustav Holst’s The Planets will relate to science studies and mentoring program for middle and high school students. […] > > Amarillo TX: To support a July 4 Celebration concert. > > Amarillo TX: To support “Music Makes a Difference!,” Amarillo Symphony’s chamber music residencies in elementary schools. This outreach project will provide students and their families exposure to chamber music and develop basic music-listening skills during 2000-02. […] > > American Boychoir School, Princeton NJ: To support the National Choral Conference and the creation of an instructional video for nationwide distribution to teachers and children’s choir conductors on how to teach and motivate adolescent singers from diverse cultural backgrounds. Founder and host of the conference since 1987, the American Boychoir will perform as “demonstration choir” for the attendees of the conference in September 2000 who include conductors from well-established ensembles from more than 20 states. […] > > St Paul MN: To support a commission and middle school composer residency for the BandQuest series of educational compositions. Composer Jodie Blackshaw will develop the new work while in residence at the Rosemount Middle School in Rosemount, Minnesota, where it will be premiered by the school band and then later recorded by the University of Minnesota Symphonic Wind Ensemble. […] > > St Paul MN: To support “Minnesota Voices,” a commissioning and performance project celebrating Minnesota’s sesquicentennial, in consortium with the Minnesota Chorale. Minnesota Chorale and other choirs from around the state will commission and perform new works by Minnesota composers. […] > > Kansas City MO: To support the Kansas City Jazz Festival. The one-day indoor and outdoor event, previously known as the 18th & Vine Jazz and Blues Festival, will feature ticketed performances by jazz and blues artists on multiple stages. Musical offerings may be complemented by educational programming for youth and adults including jazz storytelling, a workshop, and lectures. Additional accompanying project activities may include performance opportunities for local youth jazz ensembles and a public master class with the festival’s artist-in-residence. […] > > Littleton CO: To support the production and dissemination of an educational video featuring techniques of professional recorder teachers, for circulation free of charge to adults interested in knowing more about teaching recorder. The American Recorder Society will make this video available on loan, free of charge to Society members and members of other music education organizations across the country. […] > > Anchorage AK: To support Young People’s Concerts. In an effort to encourage participation in school instrumental music programs, concerts will be performed for elementary school students. Working in collaboration with Anchorage School District music educators, the orchestra will create study materials for classroom instructors. Teacher workshops also will be offered to prepare students for the concert experience. […] > > New York NY: To support the Access to Music Program. Plans will include free classical music concerts, music appreciation classes, and interactive workshops with underserved audiences. Partner organizations will include the 92nd Street Y, Sirovich Community Center, Center on the Square, and the Lenox Hill Neighborhood House at Saint Peter’s Church. Additionally, the Music for the Elderly Series will present free concerts in senior centers and nursing homes throughout New York City. […] > > Fort Collins CO: To support the Fort Collins Jazz Festival. The weekend festival will feature performances by local, regional, and national jazz artists with accompanying educational activities. […] > > Bethlehem PA: To support the inaugural River Jazz Festival. The project includes free community concerts at the Town Square, residency and educational activities. […] > > Brooklyn NY: To support “American Roots,” a series of concerts that will explore the roots of American music. Artists to be presented will be masters in the fields of blues, folk, country, and rhythm and blues […] > > Brooklyn NY: To support Latin music concerts at the summer-long Celebrate Brooklyn Festival. Concerts exploring musical genres from Mexico, Puerto Rico, Colombia, and Brazil are planned. […] > > Bethlehem PA: To support educational programs for youth, adults, and intergenerational groups. Educational programs will include Bach to School assembly programs for elementary through high school students and Bach at Noon, a free concert series of Bach cantatas. A family concert presenting area youth choirs will feature a work based on Hans Christian Anderson’s “The Nightingale,” produced in collaboration with Mock Turtle Marionette Theater. During the annual Bethlehem Bach Festival, educational activities will include pre-concert performances by youth ensembles, a concert with auditioned young musicians performing with professional musicians, and a late night event of baroque chamber performances. […] > > Poughkeepsie NY: To support the Hudson Valley Philharmonic Young People’s Concerts and Classroom to Concert Program. Plans include workshops and performances. […] > > Bellingham WA: To support the Bellingham Festival of Music. The summer festival features orchestral and chamber music concerts throughout the community. Orchestra performances will be conducted by Artistic Director Michael Palmer at the Performing Arts Center of Western Washington University, and chamber music performances at the Bellingham Cruise Terminal and the Whatcom Museum of History and Art. The festival also will offer educational activities such as programs for school children, master classes, open rehearsals, and pre-concert lectures. The bulk of the NEA’s grant funding goes to thousands and thousands of comparatively small and local projects like these, in dribbles of $5000 here, $15000 there, and so on. This tiny but persistent drip feed of essential financial nutrients is crucial to keeping American community arts and performance alive. A lot of people who really enjoy the local bluegrass festival and summer Shakespeare productions, etc., and appreciate opportunities for non-wealthy high school students to perform in bands and orchestras and dance and play festivals, etc., will be very surprised and disappointed if the NEA goes tits-up. (Meanwhile, municipalities will continue soaking their residents for tax revenues to support expensive new stadiums to house professional sports franchises whose owners and players make millions of dollars. Apparently the principle that entertainment enterprises shouldn’t get handouts from the public treasury doesn’t apply to them.) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-trump-and-other-conservatives-want-to-defund-opera-and-other-arts/783963/82 "2017-04-07T21:08:52Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Yeah, I’m a redneck. Do any country or blue grass groups get funded? > [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Oh, and for the issue that the NEA doesn’t support certain types of music “like country or blue grass[sic]”: [Earl Scruggs, Bluegrass Banjo Player, 1989 NEA National Heritage Fellow](https://www.arts.gov/honors/heritage/fellows/earl-scruggs). One of the critical missions of the NEA is to support traditional arts and music that are no longer widely popular but still valued for their contributions to currently popular arts. Yep. [This bluegrass PBS program](https://songofthemountains.org/) is partially funded by the NEA. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 9:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-trump-and-other-conservatives-want-to-defund-opera-and-other-arts/783963/83 "2017-04-07T21:13:10Z")
Let’s put the National Endowment for the Arts in the context of other federal expenditures. [_US News & World Report_: “War Games, Budget Games: Pumping up the Defense Department’s coffers through off-budget chicanery doesn’t help solve the Pentagon’s problems.”](https://www.usnews.com/opinion/economic-intelligence/2015/11/03/playing-budget-games-with-defense-spending-doesnt-help-the-pentagon) [_The San Diego Union-Tribune_: “Congress shouldn’t fund what Pentagon doesn’t want”](http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/editorials/sdut-congress-pentagon-budget-2016apr08-story.html) [Military.com: “Congress Pushes for Weapons Pentagon Didn’t Want”](http://www.military.com/daily-news/2012/08/20/congress-pushes-for-weapons-pentagon-didnt-want.html) [The Center for Public Integrity: “Congress funds problematic weapons the Pentagon does not want”](https://www.publicintegrity.org/2016/07/05/19869/congress-funds-problematic-weapons-pentagon-does-not-want) If the Congress can authorize expenditures of tens of billions of dollars for weapon systems the Department of Defense didn’t ask for, don’t need, and don’t want to be obligated to maintain just to give money to defense contractors in what amounts to the largest corporate welfare program in history, I think a fraction of a percent of that spent on the arts is an ‘entitlement’ we can readily afford. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-trump-and-other-conservatives-want-to-defund-opera-and-other-arts/783963/84 "2017-04-07T21:17:02Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > If the energy industry has moved beyond coal for whatever reasons, and miners are obsolete, then maybe we should allow the profession of mining to disappear. Likewise, if opera can’take put enough assessment in seats to pay for itself because tastes in music have moved on, then opera should be permitted to disappear. This is a dumb analogy, even allowing for the presumably inadvertent garbling of the phrase “can’take put enough assessment in seats”. Mine workers mine coal in order to earn a living. Consumers consume coal in order to obtain energy. In both cases, the coal itself is just a means to an end. Coal mining has zero purpose **except** to be an economically viable source of energy. If a cheaper source of energy is found, there’s no reason to continue supporting coal mining. But the performing arts aren’t assessed in terms of how cheaply they can provide some unit of entertainment. If they were, then all the sports fans who expect their fellow citizens to go on paying taxes to support their stadiums and teams would be staying home watching free YouTube videos of skateboarders and hackysack players instead. We spend federal money on the arts for the same reason we spend federal money on parks and wilderness: because they benefit society as a whole, because most people get some kind of tangential benefit from them even if only a minority of people really love them and get closely involved with them, and because universal popularity and financial profit aren’t the only metrics for determining whether something is worthwhile. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-trump-and-other-conservatives-want-to-defund-opera-and-other-arts/783963/85 "2017-04-07T21:20:07Z")
The government wasting money elsewhere really isn’t relevant. I think that the list **Kimstu** pulled up shows that many of my assumptions were incorrect and alleviates many of my concerns. ---
**Author:** ![Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/13edae/32.png) [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stranger_On_A_Train)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-trump-and-other-conservatives-want-to-defund-opera-and-other-arts/783963/86 "2017-04-07T21:23:57Z")
And to be honest, I’m not that big of an advocate that the goverment is obliged to support the arts. If we, as a nation, were strapped for cash and needed to cut expenditures to the bone to be able to continue to provide basic services and maintain critical infrastructure, I’d be in favor of cutting funding for the arts, and frankly, the NEA is a political loser as far as progressives are concerned; it would actually make sense from the standpoint of subverting criticism to find alternative funding for important but less popular arts. But when we are willing to spend enormous amounts of money on completely useless shit as an entitlement for actually wealthy people (rather than the hypothetically wealthy people who are the supposed beneficiaries of the NEA according to critics here and elsewhere), the notion that we “can’t afford” or “shouldn’t pay for” art using public funds is pretty much the definition of hypocracy. It’s like buying on son a new Ferrari and telling the other that he has to drive a 1973 Ford Pinto because you can’t afford to buy him a new car. Funding the arts creates jobs, stimulates discretionary consumer spending on tourism, and provides cultural enrichment by exposing and perpetuating forms of art and music that are outside the sphere of the popular entertainment industry. The same people who want to defund the NEA are those who want to sell off National Park and Forest lands for exploitation by wealthy companies rather than recreation and outdoor use by the populace. Stranger ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-trump-and-other-conservatives-want-to-defund-opera-and-other-arts/783963/87 "2017-04-07T21:28:57Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Here are just a few listings of recent NEA grants in the field of music that are emphatically not just for consumption by rich people: By the way, that link appears to be broken: it should have led to the search results for grants in the field of “Music” at [this NEA webpage](https://apps.nea.gov/grantsearch/). ---
**Author:** ![Scumpup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ce73a5/32.png) [@Scumpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scumpup)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 9:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-trump-and-other-conservatives-want-to-defund-opera-and-other-arts/783963/88 "2017-04-07T21:31:36Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > This is a dumb analogy, even allowing for the presumably inadvertent garbling of the phrase “can’take put enough assessment in seats”. > > Mine workers mine coal in order to earn a living. Consumers consume coal in order to obtain energy. In both cases, the coal itself is just a means to an end. Coal mining has zero purpose **except** to be an economically viable source of energy. If a cheaper source of energy is found, there’s no reason to continue supporting coal mining. > > But the performing arts aren’t assessed in terms of how cheaply they can provide some unit of entertainment. If they were, then all the sports fans who expect their fellow citizens to go on paying taxes to support their stadiums and teams would be staying home watching free YouTube videos of skateboarders and hackysack players instead. > > We spend federal money on the arts for the same reason we spend federal money on parks and wilderness: because they benefit society as a whole, because most people get some kind of tangential benefit from them even if only a minority of people really love them and get closely involved with them, and because universal popularity and financial profit aren’t the only metrics for determining whether something is worthwhile. Assessments was an auto correct error. That you chose to lead off your rebuttal with that nicely relieves me of the need to take the rest of your post seriously. Attacking grammar and spelling are the hallmarks of weak argument. You took three paragraphs to say that you like art and parks and are cool with spending tax dollars on those things. What you left out was why your opinion carries more weight than that of someone who would spend that money elsewhere or not at all. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 9:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-trump-and-other-conservatives-want-to-defund-opera-and-other-arts/783963/89 "2017-04-07T21:45:05Z")
> [@Scumpup](#): > > Assessments was an auto correct error. :dubious: Good to know, thanks. As long as you’re sharing, what happened with the “can’take put”? [QUOTE=Scumpup] That you chose to lead off your rebuttal with that nicely relieves me of the need to take the rest of your post seriously. Attacking grammar and spelling are the hallmarks of weak argument. [/quote] Actually, if you’d read more carefully you’d have noticed that I **didn’t** attack your grammar or spelling in criticizing the substance of your post: I said that your analogy was dumb **even allowing for** the garbled part as an inadvertent error. In other words, I was pointing out that even after correcting the garble, your analogy is still dumb. [QUOTE=Scumpup] You took three paragraphs to say that you like art and parks and are cool with spending tax dollars on those things. [/quote] You seem to have entirely missed my point about the arts (and parks) being fundamentally **different** from the energy resource industry, in that they aren’t evaluated solely on the basis of how cheaply they can produce some easily quantified and traded profitable commodity. Do you have any substantive response to that point? ---
**Author:** ![Evan\_Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b487fb/32.png) [@Evan\_Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Evan_Drake)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-trump-and-other-conservatives-want-to-defund-opera-and-other-arts/783963/90 "2017-04-07T22:01:14Z")
Basically 'cos it’s a peasant culture and peasant leaders — such as Trump’s Mob — have always been suspicious of those things that used to be fostered by the gay and heartless aristocracy. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 10:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-trump-and-other-conservatives-want-to-defund-opera-and-other-arts/783963/91 "2017-04-07T22:11:04Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > If one considers that it makes sense for the government to fund the arts, it makes sense that any level of government can do it … NO! I strongly disagree with this! It is, in fact, my principle objection to NEA funding (and a whole host of other federal programs), and there are lots of “Constitutional conservatives” that feel the same way. There are certain things that the Constitution authorizes the federal government to do. “Funding art” isn’t on the list. I wouldn’t object to California taxing Californians to fund a California Endowment for the Arts, but I do object the feds doing it at a national level because I believe it’s “unconstitutional”. Poking libtards in the eye is just an ancillary benefit. ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-trump-and-other-conservatives-want-to-defund-opera-and-other-arts/783963/92 "2017-04-07T22:38:42Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Poking libtards in the eye is just an ancillary benefit. Please dial back the unnecessarily inflammatory rhetoric. A combination of “liberal” and the pejorative “retard” is hard to not construe as a slur against those that suffer from mental illness. While not as socially verboten as other slurs, I think it would be better to avoid such usage. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 10:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-trump-and-other-conservatives-want-to-defund-opera-and-other-arts/783963/93 "2017-04-07T22:39:10Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > There are certain things that the Constitution authorizes the federal government to do. “Funding art” isn’t on the list. “Promote the general welfare”. > [@](#): > > Poking libtards in the eye is just an ancillary benefit. Trolling is no more respectable in the real adult world than on this board. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-trump-and-other-conservatives-want-to-defund-opera-and-other-arts/783963/94 "2017-04-07T22:40:14Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Poking libtards in the eye is just an ancillary benefit. That’ll earn you a warning, Ditka. We’ve previously discussed that such terms should be avoided. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-trump-and-other-conservatives-want-to-defund-opera-and-other-arts/783963/95 "2017-04-07T22:41:52Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > I do object the feds doing it at a national level because I believe it’s “unconstitutional”. Given that no court ruling seems ever to have been issued that supports your belief on this topic, what are you using to justify it? Note that Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution says that Congress has the power “To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common defence and general Welfare of the United States”. If you’re going to claim that federal arts funding is literally unconstitutional, you’re going to have to make a constitutionally valid case that it doesn’t fall into the extremely broad category of “providing for the general Welfare”, and I don’t think you can. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Poking libtards in the eye is just an ancillary benefit. Yeah, that’ll show those annoying libtards who have the gall to try to provide old people in nursing homes with the joy and beauty of live chamber music. How dare they?! ---
**Author:** ![Quartz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quartz/32/267_2.png) [@Quartz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Quartz)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 10:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-trump-and-other-conservatives-want-to-defund-opera-and-other-arts/783963/96 "2017-04-07T22:43:02Z")
> [@Evil\_Economist](#): > > There’s a “[motorsports entertainment complexes](http://www.taxjusticeblog.org/archive/2016/01/international_speedway_reaps_b.php)” tax break, which sends millions to NASCAR each year. Army also still has a [NASCAR racing team](http://www.goarmy.com/events/army-racing.html), even if they’re not sponsoring this year. Your linked article clearly doesn’t tell the whole story since they got a $8M refund but in general a tax break isn’t the same as a grant - to make use of a tax break you typically have to make an operating profit in the first place. > [@Gyrate](#): > > Remember, kids - funding the arts is transferring money to the rich. But corporate subsidies are creating jobs for the working class. Oh look, is that a False Equivalence I see? ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-trump-and-other-conservatives-want-to-defund-opera-and-other-arts/783963/97 "2017-04-07T22:49:22Z")
> [@Bone](#): > > Please dial back the unnecessarily inflammatory rhetoric. A combination of “liberal” and the pejorative “retard” is hard to not construe as a slur against those that suffer from mental illness. While not as socially verboten as other slurs, I think it would be better to avoid such usage. > > [/moderating] > [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > “Promote the general welfare”. > > Trolling is no more respectable in the real adult world than on this board. > [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > That’ll earn you a warning, Ditka. We’ve previously discussed that such terms should be avoided. > [@Kimstu](#): > > Yeah, that’ll show those annoying libtards who have the gall to try to provide old people in nursing homes with the joy and beauty of live chamber music. How dare they?! Apologies to those offended by my joke. **Septimus** had used that exact phrase (poking l\*\*\*\*\*\*\* in the eye) back in [post #47](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20121395&postcount=47) and I made a snarky comment based off that post. I’ll do my best to avoid doing so in the future. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-trump-and-other-conservatives-want-to-defund-opera-and-other-arts/783963/98 "2017-04-07T22:54:43Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > **Septimus** had used that exact phrase (poking l\*\*\*\*\*\*\* in the eye) back in [post #47](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=20121395&postcount=47) and I made a snarky comment based off that post. What a difference scare-quotes make: > [@septimus](#): > > For some Republicans, making it harder for citizens to get broad humanitarian and cosmopolitan perspective is a worthwhile goal. Others are indulging petty hatreds — stick it to opera lovers, who are mostly left-wing! And for many, I’m sure, it’s just about poking “libtards” in the eye — they do it with contempt just because they can. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > Poking libtards in the eye is just an ancillary benefit. Still far more interested in hearing your rational justification for why you believe federal arts funding to be literally unconstitutional, though. ---
**Author:** ![sleestak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/919ad9/32.png) [@sleestak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleestak)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 10:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-trump-and-other-conservatives-want-to-defund-opera-and-other-arts/783963/99 "2017-04-07T22:55:34Z")
> [@Stranger\_On\_A\_Train](#): > > Let’s put the National Endowment for the Arts in the context of other federal expenditures. > > [_US News & World Report_: “War Games, Budget Games: Pumping up the Defense Department’s coffers through off-budget chicanery doesn’t help solve the Pentagon’s problems.”](https://www.usnews.com/opinion/economic-intelligence/2015/11/03/playing-budget-games-with-defense-spending-doesnt-help-the-pentagon) > > [_The San Diego Union-Tribune_: “Congress shouldn’t fund what Pentagon doesn’t want”](http://www.sandiegouniontribune.com/opinion/editorials/sdut-congress-pentagon-budget-2016apr08-story.html) > > [Military.com: “Congress Pushes for Weapons Pentagon Didn’t Want”](http://www.military.com/daily-news/2012/08/20/congress-pushes-for-weapons-pentagon-didnt-want.html) > > [The Center for Public Integrity: “Congress funds problematic weapons the Pentagon does not want”](https://www.publicintegrity.org/2016/07/05/19869/congress-funds-problematic-weapons-pentagon-does-not-want) > > If the Congress can authorize expenditures of tens of billions of dollars for weapon systems the Department of Defense didn’t ask for, don’t need, and don’t want to be obligated to maintain just to give money to defense contractors in what amounts to the largest corporate welfare program in history, I think a fraction of a percent of that spent on the arts is an ‘entitlement’ we can readily afford. > > Stranger Or maybe, just maybe, both need to be fixed. According to the CBO the U.S. is on track to have a debt to GDP ratio of 150% in 2047. Deficits rise from 2.9% of GDP to 9.8% in 2047. > [@](#): > > At 77 percent of gross domestic product (GDP), federal debt held by the public is now at its highest level since shortly after World War II. If current laws generally remained unchanged, the Congressional Budget Office projects, growing budget deficits would boost that debt sharply over the next 30 years; it would reach 150 percent of GDP in 2047. **The prospect of such large and growing debt poses substantial risks for the nation and presents policymakers with significant challenges.** [Link](https://www.cbo.gov/publication/52480#section1). The attitude of “Well, it is just a small percent of the budget! LOOK at all the other more expensive stuff!!?!?!?!?!?!” is an idiotic way to look at the budget. It is the attitude that ensures no program will ever be cut. It is the attitude passes our debt to our kids (Hey sonny, sorry the economy is absolutely fucked but me and your Mom got to see a symphony back in 2017 for free!). Slee ---
**Author:** ![Bone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bone/32/407_2.png) [@Bone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bone)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2017, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-trump-and-other-conservatives-want-to-defund-opera-and-other-arts/783963/100 "2017-04-07T22:58:24Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > Trolling is no more respectable in the real adult world than on this board. This is a warning for accusing another poster of trolling. If you feel you must, the BBQ Pit is right around the corner. [/moderating] [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-trump-and-other-conservatives-want-to-defund-opera-and-other-arts/783963.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-trump-and-other-conservatives-want-to-defund-opera-and-other-arts/783963.md?page=6)