# Why do Ukranian refugees look so well off? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Tags:** ukraine-invasion\ **Created:** [March 3, 2022, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ukranian-refugees-look-so-well-off/960385 "2022-03-03T04:17:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f1d935/32.png) [@CC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CC)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ukranian-refugees-look-so-well-off/960385/1 "2022-03-03T04:17:39Z")
Weird, Video of people escaping Ukraine shows a lot of people who appear to be wearing moderately expensive clothes. Certainly, they are better dressed than many other refugees from other countries that we have seen on the news. No one appears to be wearing rags or blankets or torn and ragged clothing. Is Ukraine a relatively wealthy nation? Would there be a class factor in who “gets” to escape? I don’t believe that this is simply a measure of my perception - it’s a fairly prominent feature of the pictures we’ve seen for about a week, now. Dopers? ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ukranian-refugees-look-so-well-off/960385/2 "2022-03-03T04:22:45Z")
They are middle class people from large modern cities who left their normal lives quickly after being invaded. Why on earth would you think that they would be in “rags or blankets or torn and ragged clothing”? Yes, many in Ukraine are fairly well off. It was not a poverty stricken hell-hole before the Russians got there. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ukranian-refugees-look-so-well-off/960385/3 "2022-03-03T04:23:49Z")
Per capita income in PPP is close to $15000, which is middle income. As was mentioned these may be refugees from the cities where there is more wealth. Also the war just started, so it isn’t like people have had to scrounge for food for months before they escaped. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ukranian-refugees-look-so-well-off/960385/4 "2022-03-03T04:38:53Z")
They may not have a lot of iPads and Keurig machines at home, or his-and-hers automobiles, but decent clothes are cheap by any western standard. As others mentioned, these are moderately well off city dwellers cramming into the main train stations to fill the trains to overflowing on the way to Poland. You didn’t see a lot of Syrian refugees dragging roller suitcases, including the cute pink one for the little daughter. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ukranian-refugees-look-so-well-off/960385/5 "2022-03-03T04:44:58Z")
Ukraine isn’t a poor country. It may not be rich, but it isn’t poor. Incidentally, sometimes rich people are the ones fleeing. Iraqi refugees, for instance, back in the day, were often quite wealthy, since the rich ones were likely to be targeted by Saddam’s regime. I used to work briefly in New York for a refugee-assistance service and one worker noted that the Iraqi refugees complained about how the curtains didn’t match or go well in their new homes they were given in America. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ukranian-refugees-look-so-well-off/960385/6 "2022-03-03T04:49:01Z")
There would have been plenty of rich or at least comfortable Iraqi and Syrian refugees but they left early in the conflict (or even before it began) on planes to sympathetic countries. They simply weren’t visible. The refugees in rags are the poor ones who didn’t leave till they’d lost everything, or never had anything to begin with. ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 7:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ukranian-refugees-look-so-well-off/960385/7 "2022-03-03T07:53:04Z")
I was puzzled by this as well. Maybe they just didn’t have time to change into their refugee outfits from their every day clothes? ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 8:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ukranian-refugees-look-so-well-off/960385/8 "2022-03-03T08:40:05Z")
Lets wait a few days. These guys are right now, not very different from you or me going on a day trip. Lets wait a few days when they don’t have access to their home wardrobes, and can only wear donated clothes. Most Iraqi, Syrian refugees travelled for days or weeks before the arrived in Europe, and since Governments were actively obstructing them rather than welcoming them, they often had to sell most stuff they had to get middle men to take, and how do you say this gently, nice clothes make you a target for the tonnes of unscrupulous character you would meet. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 8:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ukranian-refugees-look-so-well-off/960385/9 "2022-03-03T08:48:23Z")
> [@CC](#): > > No one appears to be wearing rags or blankets or torn and ragged clothing. Is Ukraine a relatively wealthy nation? Why are you under the impression that Ukraine is a poor country? No country in Europe is ‘poor’. They may not all be swilling in cash, but they aren’t destitute. They have a well functioning healthcare system, education system and welfare state. Many multi-national companies have offices and factories in Ukraine. My wife works for a Danish company and has well-educated and affluent colleagues in Ukraine. What’s more, they’ve been at war for precisely a week. How would you be dressed if you’d only had a week to leave your home? ---
**Author:** ![Banksiaman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banksiaman/32/3334_2.png) [@Banksiaman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banksiaman)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 8:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ukranian-refugees-look-so-well-off/960385/10 "2022-03-03T08:52:01Z")
Your average Syrian refugee making their way to Greece, who seems to be the sort of person you’re talking about, has probably been living in amongst active war conditions or internal refugee camps for months or years. And, after that, they’ve been on the move for weeks or months, and often sleeping in the open. Ukrainian refugees have probably been on the move for a few weeks maximum, catching trains, cars and buses until local disruptions forced them to hoof it. Give them time [and political indifference] and they will look like their ancestors did at the end of World War II. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ukranian-refugees-look-so-well-off/960385/11 "2022-03-03T08:54:38Z")
Plus the ones too poor to bug out on a moment’s notice are still in Kiev, not walking past a cameraman in Poland or Hungary, ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 9:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ukranian-refugees-look-so-well-off/960385/12 "2022-03-03T09:28:56Z")
If people are too poor to catch a bus, then they’re too poor to live in a capital city. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ukranian-refugees-look-so-well-off/960385/13 "2022-03-03T10:30:53Z")
Not everybody in a large city drniks Starbucks while consulting their Rolexes ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 10:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ukranian-refugees-look-so-well-off/960385/14 "2022-03-03T10:41:39Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > Maybe they just didn’t have time to change into their refugee outfits from their every day clothes? I hate it when that happens. ---
**Author:** ![Al128](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/al128/32/16541_2.png) [@Al128](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Al128)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 11:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ukranian-refugees-look-so-well-off/960385/15 "2022-03-03T11:20:27Z")
true that … e.g. the venezuelan “refugees” have been living in Miami for 10+ years (in comfortable homes owned by them) … what is still left in venezuela are the lowest classes (and those being supported by the regime of course), that did not have the financial mobility to move until things got really really bad. tl-dr: the more money you have - the more degrees of freedom you have same is true for Ukr. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 12:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ukranian-refugees-look-so-well-off/960385/16 "2022-03-03T12:16:07Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > Not everybody in a large city drniks Starbucks while consulting their Rolexes But they can find the bus fare to get to work ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ukranian-refugees-look-so-well-off/960385/17 "2022-03-03T12:20:58Z")
> [@SanVito](#): > > If people are too poor to catch a bus, then they’re too poor to live in a capital city. Wow. Just…wow. ---
**Author:** ![JKellyMap](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jkellymap/32/15880_2.png) [@JKellyMap](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JKellyMap)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ukranian-refugees-look-so-well-off/960385/18 "2022-03-03T15:32:04Z")
What an odd question (the OP)! I teach geography to undergrads in Wisconsin, and for the general education course “World Cultural Regions,” I always show them Google Maps Street Views of Ukraine, because it looks so much like the US Midwest. If bombs were to start raining on (say) Ohio, thousands would depart their homes. These travelers would be “refugees.” The OP just isn’t used to the idea of a refugee as being other than poor. Understandable. It’s a reminder that war between two relatively wealthy states is indeed pretty rare these days. But it’s also a reminder that it COULD happen to YOU. ---
**Author:** ![Euphonious\_Polemic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/euphonious_polemic/32/3002_2.png) [@Euphonious\_Polemic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Euphonious_Polemic)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ukranian-refugees-look-so-well-off/960385/19 "2022-03-03T15:35:57Z")
> [@Banksiaman](#): > > Ukrainian refugees have probably been on the move for a few weeks maximum, The war started a week ago. We’re talking on the move for days, maybe even hours. ---
**Author:** ![md-2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/9d8465/32.png) [@md-2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md-2000)\ **Post date:** [March 3, 2022, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ukranian-refugees-look-so-well-off/960385/20 "2022-03-03T16:12:15Z")
> [@Gyrate](#): > > > [@SanVito](#): > > > > If people are too poor to catch a bus, then they’re too poor to live in a capital city. > > Wow. Just…wow. The Ukrainian equivalent of back country Appalachian trailer trash, broken windows and ragged clothes and a rusted truck, are in the back country and a lot less bothered by Russians in long columns on the main highways so less likely to flee. (and are as few of the population proportionally as in America) We are seeing typical city dwellers, no different than any city in Europe. Entry level cost-of-living level is being able to pay rent and buy groceries, like any European city. This requires a job, where you have to wear decent clothes; even sewer workers and road repair tend to be civil servants and paid passably well. Wall Street MBAs’ attitude of “contract it out for minimum wage, and part time” has not really hit Europe as hard yet. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ukranian-refugees-look-so-well-off/960385.md?page=2)