# Why do ultra-religious people feel they have a license to treat people like crap? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 25, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923 "2009-01-25T15:38:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 9:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/201 "2009-01-28T21:18:26Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > If we know there are religious texts from before Jesus’ time, essentially priming people for his arrival, and we know prophets were a big thing in those days, and we also know that Jesus’ birth did not exactly go by unnoticed, what rational reason can there be for his entire life not being followed by some scribe at the time? The prophecies in the religious texts aren’t exactly unambiguous or specific enough to know from birth that someone is the Messiah. There remains disagreement today (between Jews and Christians) about whether or not Jesus was the Messiah mentioned in these texts. Jews believe that we’d only know that someone was the Messiah once he had established world peace and [done some other stuff](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_messiah#Scriptural_requirements). It’s also possible that Jesus’ life was followed by some scribe, but the document didn’t survive to the present. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/202 "2009-01-28T21:26:15Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > Jews believe that we’d only know that someone was the Messiah once he had established world peace and [done some other stuff](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jewish_messiah#Scriptural_requirements). That’s a pretty detailed and specific list( in some respects.)- how did the prophets come up with these predictions? Was it astrology led, did they cast bones, or what? > [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > It’s also possible that Jesus’ life was followed by some scribe, but the document didn’t survive to the present. Seems more likely than it never happening. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/203 "2009-01-28T21:33:14Z")
> [@Siege](#): > > If the Bible doesn’t contradict itself, perhaps you can answer a simple question. What was the last thing Jesus said before dying on the cross? The Gosples of Matthew and Mark say He said, “Eloi, Eloi, lama sabachthani?” [My god, my god, why have you forsaken me?], then gave a loud cry and died (Matthew 27:45-50 and Mark 15:33-37). The Gospel of Luke says He called out, “Father, into your hands I commend my spirit” and breathed his last (Luke 23:46) and the Gospel of John says He said, “It is finished” before breathing His last (John 19:30). Unfortunately, miraculous as He was, I don’t think he could have said all things simultaneously and be understood, especially if the crowd apparently didn’t understand Him that well anyway. This shows how little we are capable of understand the world. All those things are true, all happened just as written down. You not being able to think how it is possible is part of our human condition, and why we need God to help us understand them. It is also the reason why only 3 of the 12 saw the transfiguration, while I’m sure Jesus would have loved all 12 to see. And going back to the OT what the divided kingdom really meant, why Chronically differs from Samuel. It also has to do with the writing style from ‘just the facts’ to very pleasant to read text. But again, going by man’s logic this can’t happen, yet is does. Revealing His Word is the job of the Lord, ask Him and He will answer these questions to you. ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 9:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/204 "2009-01-28T21:35:08Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > Seems more likely than it never happening. Orrr…Jesus was just some guy and the gospels are semi-fiction into which every last possible sounds-relevant Old Testament Messiah prophecy was shoehorned by the authors. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/205 "2009-01-28T21:37:12Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > That’s a pretty detailed and specific list( in some respects.)- how did the prophets come up with these predictions? Was it astrology led, did they cast bones, or what? I think the answer is either “they thought it up themselves” or “God spoke to them and told them”, or some combination of the two, depending on your point of view. Isaiah, as far as I know, didn’t leave us detailed records of how he (or they) got his prophecies. Ezekiel does talk about having [a vision of God’s throne or chariot](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merkabah). There is reference in the Bible to casting lots, called the [Urim and Thummim](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urim_and_Thummim), for divinatory purposes. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 9:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/206 "2009-01-28T21:38:27Z")
> [@jayjay](#): > > Orrr…Jesus was just some guy and the gospels are semi-fiction into which every last possible sounds-relevant Old Testament Messiah prophecy was shoehorned by the authors. I know. I was assuming if Jesus was real, but you aren’t a mind reader. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/207 "2009-01-28T21:40:05Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > I know. I was assuming if Jesus was real, but you aren’t a mind reader. 🙂 Sorry! 🙂 It’s sometimes difficult to remember who’s on which side around here. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/208 "2009-01-28T21:53:50Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > OK, it’s a bit odd that you call your own belief system “wild” and imply that most people wouldn’t/shouldn’t/don’t accept it, but whatever. My point is that the things religious people (yes, all of you) believe are absurdly silly. If your belief system such a huge part of your life, I sincerely hope you can take me saying that. I promise you that I can take criticism of my logic system. In fact, I _like_ to have my logic questioned, because it helps me sharpen it. It’s actually because my religious beliefs are outside of the mainstream that I take offense. Why belittle people who create something that helps them cope with the chaos of the world? Religion, in part, is a coping mechanism that gives people the ability to function in a world whose rules we do not totally understand. I can take whatever belittlement you can throw at my beliefs, as well. However, I don’t see the need to be a dick about it when someone is trying to be reasonable and logical about the illogical. This however… > [@kanicbird](#): > > There are no contradictions. …is illogical and easily disproved. Hey Spaz, how did you know that was going to be the answer to “explain the contradictions in the Bible”? Gee, I don’t know. Maybe because the Nile plays such a large role in it? ---
**Author:** ![Fish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/bc8723/32.png) [@Fish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fish)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 10:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/209 "2009-01-28T22:00:16Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > It is such absolute truth that we in ourselves need divine help to understand it. This sounds a lot like George Orwell to me: war is peace, ignorance is strength, freedom is slavery. Truth looks like lies. ---
**Author:** ![Revenant\_Threshold](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f1d935/32.png) [@Revenant\_Threshold](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revenant_Threshold)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 10:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/210 "2009-01-28T22:20:17Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > But again, going by man’s logic this can’t happen, yet is does. Revealing His Word is the job of the Lord, ask Him and He will answer these questions to you. Question; it is man’s logic that one thing cannot be something and yet also something contradictory. As in **Siege’s** example, one phrase cannot be Jesus’ last words and yet also not Jesus’ last words, in man’s logic. If God goes unconstrained by such logic, then surely we cannot assume he goes constrained at any point? That the Bible can be both true and false? That God can be both good and evil? That Jesus died for our sins, yet did not die for our sins? You cannot claim that he is above logic at some points and yet shackled by it at others. And by that same point, if God is not constrained by logic, we can say nothing about him, because all of our suppositions rely upon man’s logic at some point. If A is not necessarily A, we can say nothing about God at all. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 10:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/211 "2009-01-28T22:30:07Z")
> [@SpazCat](#): > > It’s actually because my religious beliefs are outside of the mainstream that I take offense. Why belittle people who create something that helps them cope with the chaos of the world? For the same reason I would belittle people who try to solve their problems by drugging themselves into a stupor; because religion is irrational and destructive. ---
**Author:** ![Revtim](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/revtim/32/1042_2.png) [@Revtim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Revtim)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 10:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/212 "2009-01-28T22:32:45Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > There are no contradictions Matthew 27:5 (New International Version)] So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself. Acts 1:18 (New International Version) With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out. > [@kanicbird](#): > > It is such absolute truth that we in ourselves need divine help to understand it. Humans are just not capable of directly understanding it. C’mon. I bet there’s a part of you that realizes was a weak cop-out that is. I urge you to listen to that voice. It’s not Satan; it’s simply the part of your brain that looks for actual truth. ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/213 "2009-01-28T22:44:38Z")
> [@Brynda](#): > > My husband was recently diagnosed with metastatic cancer and we don’t know his prognosis yet. An ultra-religious “friend” of ours who knows we are not Christians and knows his diagnosis sent me a stupid forward about how God punishes non-believers with “untimely deaths.” > > Nice. Really, really nice. Her husband died of cancer. She, of all people, knows how scared we are. And she sends me this, to convince us to find God. She can kiss my ass. I hope you sent it back to her with a question… “Is this why your husband died?” Unbelievable. :rolleyes: You and your husband also have my sympathies. > [@kanicbird](#): > > This shows how little we are capable of understand the world. All those things are true, all happened just as written down. You not being able to think how it is possible is part of our human condition, and why we need God to help us understand them. It is also the reason why only 3 of the 12 saw the transfiguration, while I’m sure Jesus would have loved all 12 to see. And going back to the OT what the divided kingdom really meant, why Chronically differs from Samuel. It also has to do with the writing style from ‘just the facts’ to very pleasant to read text. > > But again, going by man’s logic this can’t happen, yet is does. Revealing His Word is the job of the Lord, ask Him and He will answer these questions to you. And this is why I gave up on Christianity. The circular reasoning of “The bible tells us so, no matter what the ‘so’ is.” answer to everything grew really thin and laborious. I have more respect for people of any stripe who claim to _not_ know everything or that, say, their holy books _do_ have contradictions, than this sort of tortured logic. Those folks have my attention with their honesty. The rest, like the man in the OP, not so much. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/214 "2009-01-28T22:51:34Z")
> [@Revtim](#): > > Matthew 27:5 (New International Version)] > So Judas threw the money into the temple and left. Then he went away and hanged himself. > > Acts 1:18 (New International Version) > With the reward he got for his wickedness, Judas bought a field; there he fell headlong, **his body burst open and all his intestines spilled out**. :eek: And yet the part of me that loves bad horror movies is going :D. Let’s see what the NRSV says: Acts 1:18 Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness; and falling headlong\*, he burst open in the middle and all his bowels rushed out. \*or _swelling up_ Wow, an alternate version right there in the footnotes! ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/215 "2009-01-28T23:36:42Z")
I like the “swelling up” version. It’s so…Pythonesque. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [January 28, 2009, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/216 "2009-01-28T23:51:49Z")
I have to chime in with my favorite verse for my conservative Christian friends who believe in biblican inerrancy, complete with 6 days to create the earth. NIV Leviticus 11:6 “The rabbit, though it chews its cud, does not have a split hoof; it is unclean for you.” :dubiou: The omniscient diety who wrote the book says that rabbits (or hares originally) chew cud? Since when? Did he change them after the flood? ---
**Author:** ![CrazyCatLady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/dfb087/32.png) [@CrazyCatLady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CrazyCatLady)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/217 "2009-01-29T00:22:37Z")
Well, rabbits do rechew their partially digested food and run it through another digestive cycle. It’s just that instead of burping it back up, they eat their own shit. I dunno, doesn’t really make the little critters seem any cleaner. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/218 "2009-01-29T00:45:00Z")
Yes they do. But that is not chewing cud. And God would know the difference. But the writers of the book wouldn’t. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/219 "2009-01-29T01:13:25Z")
> [@SpazCat](#): > > :eek: > > And yet the part of me that loves bad horror movies is going :D. > > Let’s see what the NRSV says: > > Acts 1:18 > Now this man acquired a field with the reward of his wickedness; and falling headlong\*, he burst open in the middle and all his bowels rushed out. > > \*or _swelling up_ > > Wow, an alternate version right there in the footnotes! Damn, the Bible really does kickass. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Andy\_L](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c67d28/32.png) [@Andy\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Andy_L)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/220 "2009-01-29T02:07:51Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Since you assume that the Word contradicts itself one can assume that you don’t understand it. He didn’t assume it that the Bible contradicts itself - he _noticed_ that the Bible contradicts itself. If you want to _assume_ that the numerous contradictions don’t exist, I think it’s inevitable that you going to tie yourself in knots, but at the very least, it’s ridiculous to accuse other people of making unwarranted assumptions. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923.md?page=12)