# Why do ultra-religious people feel they have a license to treat people like crap? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 25, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923 "2009-01-25T15:38:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 12:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/221 "2009-01-29T12:12:34Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > I do know Jesus, the person, on such a level. I’m not talking about His teachings, but His person. It is not some human writing, Jesus is real, is a person that one can know just as one knows a physical person. Such a relationship with God is possible, it is what God wants. > > Jesus is not rules, He is a real person that we can know. > > So it is a totally fair question, even more so that a self proclaimed (former) christian answered no. Please give us Jesus address and email (if He has one) so we can ask Him how long you have been in touch. If Jesus went up into the clouds and hasn’t yet come back, the Jesus you claim to “know” hasn’t been around for 2000 years. And There is no one alive who can claim they know Him, just what they were taught or read about Him. You “believe” you know Him, but any one could say they personally know The Apostles, Constantine, Cinderella or any charactor they read or heard about. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/222 "2009-01-29T12:17:02Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Just because God used monks does not mean that man can alter His Word. I don’t know why so many people think that God is so incompetent that man can thwart His plans - this is totally illogical IMHO. How do you know it is God’s word? Who decided it was God’s word. In truth it was humans. How do you know God used monks? You of course are allowed your opinion and your beliefs but it is a circular argument and gets no where. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/223 "2009-01-29T12:19:43Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Jesus did come for Stephan, on a person level > > Jesus is a personal God, He works personally with us, why do you assume His return will be on a one time only mass group level? Did you see Jesus come for Stephan or are you taking some one who wrote it at their word? Monavis ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 1:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/224 "2009-01-29T13:21:30Z")
> [@Revenant\_Threshold](#): > > Question; it is man’s logic that one thing cannot be something and yet also something contradictory. As in **Siege’s** example, one phrase cannot be Jesus’ last words and yet also not Jesus’ last words, in man’s logic. If God goes unconstrained by such logic, then surely we cannot assume he goes constrained at any point? That the Bible can be both true and false? That God can be both good and evil? That Jesus died for our sins, yet did not die for our sins? > > You cannot claim that he is above logic at some points and yet shackled by it at others. And by that same point, if God is not constrained by logic, we can say nothing about him, because all of our suppositions rely upon man’s logic at some point. If A is not necessarily A, we can say nothing about God at all. **RT** you are confusing man’s wisdom (using biblical terms, instead of the word logic), for that of God. God states that our wisdom is less then His foolishness (not exact quote). This is the reason that God gives us His Spirit, we need it to truly understand His Wisdom and unlock the scriptures. We are not to rely upon man’s logic, but God’s wisdom by faith. There is a point in faith that it is no longer blind faith, you know it is God, you no longer question it, you start to learn about the person and start to know Jesus Himself as He comes into your life. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/225 "2009-01-29T13:25:07Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > Please give us Jesus address and email (if He has one) so we can ask Him how long you have been in touch. Just talk to Him and He will hear, Just write to Him and He will read, Just type to Him and He will see, no stamp or ISP needed, that would be totally unfair, as it would exclude many people from contacting Him. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 1:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/226 "2009-01-29T13:27:53Z")
> [@faithfool](#): > > And this is why I gave up on Christianity. The circular reasoning of “The bible tells us so, no matter what the ‘so’ is.” answer to everything grew really thin and laborious. I have more respect for people of any stripe who claim to _not_ know everything or that, say, their holy books _do_ have contradictions, than this sort of tortured logic. Those folks have my attention with their honesty. The rest, like the man in the OP, not so much. The part you have unfortunately missed is putting God into the equation, it’s not circular, it has the input of the Almighty Creator of Heaven and earth. Not God’s teachings, but God Himself. ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/227 "2009-01-29T13:34:44Z")
**Kanicbird** , can I ask you why you aren’t a Muslim. Or why your god has allowed the minds of its subjects to become so confused that they can’t even agree on its name? Surely if god is ever present and an unavoidable fact, believing in him should be as natural as breathing? ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 1:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/228 "2009-01-29T13:37:11Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > **RT** you are confusing man’s wisdom (using biblical terms, instead of the word logic), for that of God. God states that our wisdom is less then His foolishness (not exact quote). This is the reason that God gives us His Spirit, we need it to truly understand His Wisdom and unlock the scriptures. \*\*We are not to rely upon man’s logic, but God’s wisdom by faith. \*\* There is a point in faith that it is no longer blind faith, you know it is God, you no longer question it, you start to learn about the person and start to know Jesus Himself as He comes into your life. (bolding mine) > [@Inherit the Wind](#): > > Matthew Harrison Brady: We must not abandon faith! Faith is the most important thing! > Henry Drummond: Then why did God plague us with the capacity to think? Mr. Brady, why do you deny the one thing that sets above the other animals? What other merit have we? The elephant is larger, the horse stronger and swifter, the butterfly more beautiful, the mosquito more prolific, even the sponge is more durable. Or does a sponge think? > Matthew Harrison Brady: I don’t know. I’m a man, not a sponge! > Henry Drummond: Do you think a sponge thinks? > Matthew Harrison Brady: If the Lord wishes a sponge to think, it thinks! > Henry Drummond: Does a man have the same privilege as a sponge? > Matthew Harrison Brady: Of course! > Henry Drummond: [Gesturing towards the defendant, Bertram Cates] Then this man wishes to have the same privilege of a sponge, he wishes to think! If God wants mindless, unthinking faith, than why did he give us the ability to think? For that matter, why did he bother to create man at all? Does he need the mindless adoration of people to feed his ego? ---
**Author:** ![joyfool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df788c/32.png) [@joyfool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joyfool)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/229 "2009-01-29T13:45:00Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > The part you have unfortunately missed is putting God into the equation, it’s not circular, it has the input of the Almighty Creator of Heaven and earth. Not God’s teachings, but God Himself. No, I didn’t miss it. That’s _exactly_ how I used to believe. Now I choose differently and put my faith, if one can call it that, in things and people and even a spiritual life that doesn’t make a mockery of it. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 1:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/230 "2009-01-29T13:47:34Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > **Kanicbird** , can I ask you why you aren’t a Muslim. The main reason is that I was not brought up with that form of teachings of bondage and slavery, but the teachings of conventional Christianity, which is also teachings of bondage and slavery, based on the law of the OT mainly. Until Jesus came into my life personally and set me free of the law. > [@](#): > > Or why your god has allowed the minds of its subjects to become so confused that they can’t even agree on its name? Surely if god is ever present and an unavoidable fact, believing in him should be as natural as breathing? One would think so, but we are subject to great deception in this world that it hides God from us which is necessary since our sin separated man from God. Bt really God is all around us and talking to us all the time. The people we meet even movies we see usually, possibly always, is God talking to us personally. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 1:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/231 "2009-01-29T13:51:26Z")
> [@LurkMeister](#): > > (bolding mine) > If God wants mindless, unthinking faith, than why did he give us the ability to think? For that matter, why did he bother to create man at all? Does he need the mindless adoration of people to feed his ego? We were made to bring honor to His Son, and to be His Son’s inheritance, which we all share in. Our thinking minds are made to ponder the greatness of God as we use them to reveal His mysteries and glory. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/232 "2009-01-29T13:57:06Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > We were made to bring honor to His Son, and to be His Son’s inheritance, which we all share in. Our thinking minds are made to ponder the greatness of God as we use them to reveal His mysteries and glory. So the only purpose of mankind is to worship God. Sorry, but that still makes God an egotistic asshole. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/233 "2009-01-29T14:08:23Z")
> [@LurkMeister](#): > > For that matter, why did he bother to create man at all? Does he need the mindless adoration of people to feed his ego? I think we’re something like God’s game of The Sims, combined with Civilization and a bit of SimEarth thrown in. God does it for the same reason any gamer plays- it’s fun. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/234 "2009-01-29T18:03:12Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > So even the most rotten, thieving, murdering bastard gets a share in the end ? At least according to some Jews. We don’t really have dogma on this like, say, the Catholic Church does. Judaism is more about what you do than what you believe. We have _incredibly_ nitpicky rules on what you’re supposed to do and not do, but the only commandment to believe in anything is that you have to believe in one incorporeal God. All the rest is pretty much up to you. Some Jews (and not just sixties-liberal types like yours truly- some Hasidim supposedly believe this, too, or at least there are Hasidic stories consistent with this) believe there could be reincarnation involved. You may get a choice between reincarnation or Gehenna when you die, or maybe if you’re too evil to get out of jail free after a year you come back for a while as a mouse or a slug or something. Yonassan Gershom’s book _Jewish Tales of Reincarnation_ has more on this, if you are interested. > [@](#): > > If so, that’s equal parts unfair and absurdly, overwhelmingly decent of your God. I’d like him much better than the ant-farm guy above, even though they’re the same 🙂 At least a lot of people say he is. I’m not so sure- if two gods have different names (we pray in Hebrew and use a Hebrew word for God) and are thought by their believers to have very different attributes, are they really the same? We could have something going on like what CS Lewis wrote about in _The Last Battle_- doing good things is service to a good god and doing bad things is not (or is service to a bad god/demon/whatever, if you believe in such a being, which I don’t), no matter what name you call your god. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/235 "2009-01-29T18:59:14Z")
> [@LurkMeister](#): > > So the only purpose of mankind is to worship God. Sorry, but that still makes God an egotistic asshole. We are made to worship Him, but that is because He is so intensely worthy of it. He knows each of us personally, Loves us so much ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 7:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/236 "2009-01-29T19:08:56Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > We are made to worship Him, but that is because He is so intensely worthy of it. He knows each of us personally, Loves us so much I’m sorry to tell you this, but your wrong. You’re just a common misguided ape who really, really wants there to be an invisible BFF in the sky who wuvs him vewy vewy much. It’s pathetic really, the depth and width of your need. You pretend to be sure because you can’t face the idea that purpose is something you find, not something that is given to you from a book written by bronze age goat herders who were, stupid, primitive and afraid. But go ahead and keep pretending that you’re right. The best thing about your pathetic delusion is that someday you’ll die, descend into oblivion and you’ll never know how utterly wasted your existence was. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/237 "2009-01-29T20:51:19Z")
> [@WolfpackJeep](#): > > I like the “swelling up” version. It’s so…Pythonesque. 🙂 Little-known fact: the ‘pieces of silver’ that Judas was paid in, are actually a mistranslation. He was actually given ‘waffer-thin mints’. ---
**Author:** ![Nancarrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c37758/32.png) [@Nancarrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nancarrow)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/238 "2009-01-29T20:52:57Z")
> [@Lobohan](#): > > I’m sorry to tell you this, but **your wrong**. And your making the baby Jesus cry. What? I _like_ making the baby Jesus cry. ---
**Author:** ![LurkMeister](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/3da27b/32.png) [@LurkMeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LurkMeister)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/239 "2009-01-29T20:55:41Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > We are made to worship Him, but that is because He is so intensely worthy of it. He knows each of us personally, Loves us so much Judging by the hell he puts some of us through, I rather doubt that last statement. ---
**Author:** ![Lobohan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lobohan/32/79_2.png) [@Lobohan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobohan)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2009, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/240 "2009-01-29T20:56:08Z")
> [@Nancarrow](#): > > And your making the baby Jesus cry. > > What? I _like_ making the baby Jesus cry. I meant it like _your bad_. Sheesh. Was that convincing? Read my past posts, I never make that mistake. It must be jehova!!! 😃 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923.md?page=13)