# Why do ultra-religious people feel they have a license to treat people like crap? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 25, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923 "2009-01-25T15:38:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/41 "2009-01-25T22:04:46Z")
> [@spike404](#): > > Crafter, > > Your post sounded like teen-aged whining. Yes, I am notorious for opening Pit threads to whine about shit. ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/42 "2009-01-25T22:23:54Z")
The benefit of living in California is that we now know who is and isn’t using their Christianity to justify being an asshole, based on how they voted on Prop 8. Unfortunately, it turns out most people are both Christians and assholes. > [@Eonwe](#): > > You know who else are jerks? Communists. I can’t think of a single person I knew in college who espoused Communistic/Marxist philosophy who wasn’t a raging self-absorbed asshole. I wonder why Communists feel they have a license to treat people like crap? It may be specific to UCSD, but I volunteer at the Food Co-Op (essentially an avowedly Marxist grocery store) and everyone else who works/volunteers there is really calm, gentle and pleasant. Even when I disagree with them, they treat me politely and work to find middle ground. But I think the cold makes people a little more likely to be assholes out there, anyway. Which, come to think of it, is probably the main problem with most Communist countries in history. 😉 > [@Xan](#): > > I’m going to put this bluntly, you’re batshit insane and should seek professional help. The problem, unfortunately, is that his particular delusion is common enough that it can’t be recognized as such. And frankly, I don’t think our psychology and psychiatry industries need to be stamping disorders on people just for being a little misguided, anyway. > [@ivan astikov](#): > > That doesn’t come across very well in parts of the OT. Excellent point. Everyone talks about Christianity and Judaism as if their central tenets were love and respect and all that, but anyone who’s actually _read_ the Bible for comprehension knows that the central tenet of both is “fear our God or burn forever–or, ideally, both”. Hostile Dialect, Hostile Dialect, Narcissist ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/43 "2009-01-25T23:07:27Z")
You know why? Anyone who believes that much they know God’s mind or the secret’s of the universe or who things “should” be is, by definition, a pompous, arrogant asshole. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 11:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/44 "2009-01-25T23:15:00Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > BTW your father is correct in that demons do walk the earth, and the earth will one day be thrown into the lake of fire… Did i miss a religious conversion somewhere? You, **kanicbird** , have always struck me as a gaping asshole, and borderline insane, but i had not previously noticed any bizarre millennial component to your stupidity. Did Jesus claim a retard when i wasn’t looking? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/45 "2009-01-25T23:27:02Z")
Yep. **kanicbird** has been on the fringes of Christianity for a long time. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/46 "2009-01-25T23:46:06Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Did i miss a religious conversion somewhere? > > You, **kanicbird** , have always struck me as a gaping asshole, and borderline insane, but i had not previously noticed any bizarre millennial component to your stupidity. Did Jesus claim a retard when i wasn’t looking? You know, Jesus himself discussed demons & fiery judgment, so kanicbird’s not totally in left field. And he’s also right that neither topic has anything to do with CM’s crappy Dad not taking his grandkids to Disneyland. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/47 "2009-01-25T23:49:13Z")
In real life I meet a lot of religious people who are assholes. On the internet I meet a lot of atheists who are assholes. Something to think about. ---
**Author:** ![Xan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ac8455/32.png) [@Xan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xan)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/48 "2009-01-25T23:49:36Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > You know, Jesus himself discussed demons & fiery judgment, so kanicbird’s not totally in left field. And he’s also right that neither topic has anything to do with CM’s crappy Dad not taking his grandkids to Disneyland. So? What Jesus said and what reality actually is are two different things. Hell what the bible says and what reality is are two different things. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 25, 2009, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/49 "2009-01-25T23:51:37Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > However, you wouldn’t be able to say without knowing them fairly well that they’re Christians because they don’t go around making a big production out it. They’re not driving around with religious bumper stickers or Jesus fishes on their cars. They’re not constantly telling people about how much they go to church. They’re not out handing people Chick tracts or blathering on about how someone or other is going to hell. Then they aren’t acting very Christian; a central feature of Christianity has always been the driving urge to ram it down everyone else’s throats. And so is the conviction that everyone different than you is going to be tortured forever. That’s how it became so widespread in the first place. > [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > Excellent point. Everyone talks about Christianity and Judaism as if their central tenets were love and respect and all that, but anyone who’s actually _read_ the Bible for comprehension knows that the central tenet of both is “fear our God or burn forever–or, ideally, both”. Exactly. The Judeo-Christian family of religions have never been about love and peace and all those warm and fuzzy things their followers like to talk about. When you look at what the religions in question say, and what the religions in question do, they are all about ruthlessness and cruelty and selfishness. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 12:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/50 "2009-01-26T00:10:43Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > You know, Jesus himself discussed demons & fiery judgment, so kanicbird’s not totally in left field. Okay, he’s not in left field. However, the ballpark is on Mars. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/51 "2009-01-26T00:18:43Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > Correct; when it comes to himself, he’s quite generous. > > I don’t know why I still consider him family. So many times I’ve thought about cutting ties with him. But I know it would upset him deeply, probably to the point of severe depression. > > I think religion is therapy for him. I think he feels immense guilt from the way he treated me and my siblings when we were growing up, and religion is a way of numbing the feeling. > > Perhaps I have it all backwards… perhaps there’s a propensity for bad people to turn to religion and use it as a tool for serving their own needs. My previous supervisor, for example, used Catholicism as a way of controlling his family. (We used to pal around when I first worked for him, so I know this for a fact). “You must do this, not because **I** want you to do it, but because Jesus said so.” He used ISO-9000 for controlling his employees. “You must do this, not because **I** want you to do it, but because ISO says so.” I believe my father latched onto religion out of fear of dying, and as a tool for absolving his guilt. He is not bad or evil intrinsically. He does not have the ability to empathize with others and consider the results of his actions on others. He is sick. Best not to let him around the children unsupervised, not because he will commit crimes, but because he will continue to behave as though he had no empathy for others, and children should not be exposed to that in long stretches in my unexpert opinion. I really doubt he feels guilt. ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/52 "2009-01-26T00:18:50Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > You know, Jesus himself discussed demons & fiery judgment, so kanicbird’s not totally in left field. And he’s also right that neither topic has anything to do with CM’s crappy Dad not taking his grandkids to Disneyland. Both those things might be true. I was merely making an observation about a long-time poster whom i have noticed on many occasions is a nutbar, but had never noticed was a proselytizing Christian. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 12:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/53 "2009-01-26T00:33:40Z")
> [@](#): > > **Hostile Dialect** : anyone who’s actually read the Bible for comprehension knows that the central tenet of both is “fear our God or burn forever–or, ideally, both”. You might want to try again with the _New Testament_ using some scholarly insight into the decoded meaning of the last book. It may not be the hellfire and damnation that it appears to be. If you want to get a good idea of the general teachings of Jesus, look at the Sermon on the Mount in Matthew. I was brought up with the concept of a loving God. When we read the sermon “_Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God_” in high school in the 1950s, we felt sorry for the way that Colonial Americans were subjected to such terrifying ideas. We lived in a rural Southern town of 2,000, but never dreamed that thoughts of an angry God would be perpetuated again. Frankly, that notion has been pertetuated by two groups: a small group of fundamentalists and even moreso by a larger group, it appears, of atheists who mistakenly believe that that is what Christians in general believe and the New Testament teaches. And yes, I have been well-educated in the Bible through many years of never missing Sunday School, being read Bible stories at home, going to Bible school in the summers and beginning college as a religious education major in a mainstream religious affiliated school. That has been a long time ago. I later changed majors and schools. I am not a fundamentalist nor do I wish to pass judgment on atheists or those of other faiths. I just hold a fairly educated _opinion_ about your statement that I quoted and I think you misunderstood what you read. We could both quote scripture, but that accomplishes _nothing_. Look at the _New Testament_ as a whole. I intend no criticism of you personally. You are usually a bright spot in the forums. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/54 "2009-01-26T00:49:32Z")
> [@](#): > > **Der Trihs** : Then they aren’t acting very Christian; a central feature of Christianity has always been the driving urge to ram it down everyone else’s throats. And so is the conviction that everyone different than you is going to be tortured forever. That’s how it became so widespread in the first place. So Christians are always bad. If a “Christian” is good, they really aren’t acting Christian so they don’t count in your book. Christianity was therefore spread by evil pushy Christians and not by any acts of kindness by “Christians.” Christians don’t like women? I will admit that some denominations seem to devalue the service of women. But others make them the head of the denomination. So that’s not something that you can really generalize about. After all, women make up about half of the Christians, don’t they? I do appreciate your sensitivity to the treatment of women. In most churches that I am familiar with, there has been a great change during my lifetime. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 1:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/55 "2009-01-26T01:02:05Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > BTW your father is correct in that demons do walk the earth, and the earth will one day be thrown into the lake of fire, what this has anything to do with why he didn’t take your kids to Disneyland eludes me. :rolleyes: Unless by “demons” you mean people like Osama Bin Laden, Charles Manson, Ann Coulter, or Michael Jackson, I think you’re only proving the OP’s point. You’re also a freaking loon, who knows jackshit about Christianity, and seems only to want to scare the shit out of people. “Believe in me, or I’ll throw you in hell!” Yeah, sounds like a really loving being to me! I think the whole point about Disneyland is that normal grandparents don’t scare the shit out of their grandkids with horror stories. They spoil them rotten and take them fun places instead. Mine took us grandkids (eleven of us!) to Idlewild and Storybook Forest, and we were always allowed to ride along with Pap when he’d go to the beer distributor. And instead of stories about demons and lakes of fire, Gramma had pudding pops and ginger ale. And my other grandparents constantly slipped me money and took me to Pizza Hut and the playground. The only time my grandfather did anything “scary” was when he’d push his dentures out all the way over his lip because it made me laugh when I was little. Rest assured, there ARE religious people who aren’t complete freaking nutbar assholes like your dad. Have you ever talked to **Polycarp** here, or **Jodi**? Or read up on people like Archbishop Romero, or Monseignor O’Flaherty. **Crafter Man** , we certainly aren’t best friends, but I hate seeing people who freak kids out like that-especially ones who are supposed to love them and take care of them. (And hopefully, the kids aren’t still freaked out-maybe you could tell the kids that demons are people like those above. And Tom Cruise. He’s a demon for certain.) Now, am I the only one with an urge to listen to Johnny Cash? ---
**Author:** ![Hostile\_Dialect](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/e495f1/32.png) [@Hostile\_Dialect](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hostile_Dialect)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/56 "2009-01-26T01:08:37Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > I was brought up with the concept of a loving God. When we read the sermon “Sinners in the Hands of an Angry God” in high school in the 1950s, we felt sorry for the way that Colonial Americans were subjected to such terrifying ideas. We lived in a rural Southern town of 2,000, but never dreamed that thoughts of an angry God would be perpetuated again. > > Frankly, that notion has been pertetuated by two groups: a small group of fundamentalists and even moreso by a larger group, it appears, of atheists who mistakenly believe that that is what Christians in general believe and the New Testament teaches. We seem to agree that fundamentalist Christian theosophy is inherently destructive and, in general, a Bad Thing that we would be better off without. I followed this sentence with a nasty rant about how your religion personally affects my civil liberties, and how distraught and bitter I am about that, but I considered the tone of our discussion so far and decided to leave it at the one thing about the agreeing. I will readily admit, as I always do, that I am less familiar with the New Testament than with the Old Testament, although I do believe my assessment was correct. When I have the time, I’ll try to re-read the NT and see if I come to a different conclusion or not. Hostile Dialect, Hostile Dialect, Narcissist ---
**Author:** ![appleciders](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85f322/32.png) [@appleciders](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/appleciders)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/57 "2009-01-26T02:29:19Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Okay, he’s not in left field. > > However, the ballpark is on Mars. _snerk_. Well played, sir. Well played. ---
**Author:** ![brazil84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8491ac/32.png) [@brazil84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/brazil84)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 3:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/58 "2009-01-26T03:15:57Z")
> [@Crafter\_Man](#): > > He hooked up with some cult-like church and now preaches the bible to everyone. My WAG is that people who are (1) ultra-religious; and (2) feel the need to make sure everyone knows it, have a tendency to be assholes. I have met a fair number of people who seem to spend most of their free time quietly praying and studying the Bible but who don’t advertise it and seem to be basically decent people. When I was in college, I knew students who went to religious services, well, religiously. They didn’t advertise their faith, they just went about their business. Again, they all seemed like decent people. In fact, the Christian Bible itself makes the reasonable point that private prayer is preferable to public prayer. (Matthew 6:5-7) Arguably, the thrust of this is that it’s better not to be too in-your-face with religion. I realize that this is a bit of a True Scotsman argument, but there it is. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 3:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/59 "2009-01-26T03:27:59Z")
> [@Zoe](#): > > You might want to try again with the _New Testament_ using some scholarly insight into the decoded meaning of the last book. It may not be the hellfire and damnation that it appears to be. And besides Revelations, how many Christians pay much attention to the New Testament ? > [@Zoe](#): > > Frankly, that notion has been pertetuated by two groups: a small group of fundamentalists and even moreso by a larger group, it appears, of atheists who mistakenly believe that that is what Christians in general believe and the New Testament teaches. And do you have any evidence that the fundamentalists are a “small” group ? This “small” group that buys millions of copies of the _Left Behind_ series, dominates the Republican Party and the conservative states, and gets laws like Proposition 8 passed ? It’s the fundies who represent the Christian mainstream in America, as far as I can tell. They certainly aren’t “small”. > [@Zoe](#): > > So Christians are always bad. If a “Christian” is good, they really aren’t acting Christian so they don’t count in your book. Pretty much; a Christian who acts good is a good person but a bad Christian, just as a Nazi who act good is a bad Nazi but a good person. And yes, I do think that comparing Christianity and Nazism is fair; both are evil, and responsible for millions of deaths and immense suffering. If Nazism had won, a thousand or two years later it could easily be like Christianity; a belief followed by people who claim that it’s benevolent yet ignore it’s history and behavior. Yet still, at it’s core, evil. > [@Zoe](#): > > Christianity was therefore spread by evil pushy Christians and not by any acts of kindness by “Christians.” Exactly. Although I’d say “brutal and murderous”, not “pushy”. It was conversion by the sword, genocide, book burning and the wholesale destruction of cultures that spread Christianity. Not niceness. > [@Zoe](#): > > Christians don’t like women? I will admit that some denominations seem to devalue the service of women. But others make them the head of the denomination. So that’s not something that you can really generalize about. After all, women make up about half of the Christians, don’t they? So ? Women have often collaborated with their own oppression. And the gender of a leader in or out of religion doesn’t do any good for the average person; Queen Victoria’s gender didn’t make the lot of women in Victorian times any better either. > [@Zoe](#): > > I do appreciate your sensitivity to the treatment of women. In most churches that I am familiar with, there has been a great change during my lifetime. Thank you. But in my eyes, that’s a matter of people overcoming the pernicious anti-woman slant of Christianity, not something that Christianity gets credit for. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 3:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/60 "2009-01-26T03:59:33Z")
**C\_M** , I thought _you_ were quite religious yourself. Did I confuse you with someone? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923.md?page=4)