# Why do ultra-religious people feel they have a license to treat people like crap? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 25, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923 "2009-01-25T15:38:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 4:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/61 "2009-01-26T04:08:38Z")
I dunno. The thing I’ve always wondered is why so many negroes are lazy. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/62 "2009-01-26T04:10:58Z")
> [@pedescribe](#): > > In other words, religion is a lens, not a framework. Well except being able to so-called ‘choose’ your religion is a very recent innovation. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/63 "2009-01-26T04:18:31Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And besides Revelations, how many Christians pay much attention to the New Testament ? Now, see here–I am a lapsed and jaded Christian and all, but even I know that the vast majority of Christians pay almost total attention to the NT. It is a small percentage who dwell on the Book of Revelations. The rest of us look at it as metaphor and John getting into the 'shrooms a bit too much… > [@](#): > > And do you have any evidence that the fundamentalists are a “small” group ? This “small” group that buys millions of copies of the _Left Behind_ series, dominates the Republican Party and the conservative states, and gets laws like Proposition 8 passed ? > > It’s the fundies who represent the Christian mainstream in America, as far as I can tell. They certainly aren’t “small”. \ While the Left Behind series (which IMO should be left behind–in the nearest garbage can) is very popular, and while evangelicals and fundamentalists have overtaken many (if not all) of the social issues for the GOP, and were key to the whole Prop 8 debacle, not all Christians are evangelical or fundamentalist. In fact, most Christians I know would appreciate it if the more strident folk would sit down and shut up–they by no means speak for ALL Christians. > [@](#): > > Pretty much; a Christian who acts good is a good person but a bad Christian, just as a Nazi who act good is a bad Nazi but a good person. > > And yes, I do think that comparing Christianity and Nazism is fair; both are evil, and responsible for millions of deaths and immense suffering. If Nazism had won, a thousand or two years later it could easily be like Christianity; a belief followed by people who claim that it’s benevolent yet ignore it’s history and behavior. Yet still, at it’s core, evil. Gah. \ I wasn’t aware a religion could be Godwinized. Jesus’ teaching were far from evil. I agree with you that man as a social group, as a church, as an individual has often twisted those same teachings into perverse and horrid things. Much evil has been done in the name of God. But much good as well. You tend to only see the evil; devout Christians and self-righteous, sanctimonious Christians only see the good. What’s wrong with this picture? > [@](#): > > But in my eyes, that’s a matter of people overcoming the pernicious anti-woman slant of Christianity, not something that Christianity gets credit for. You get no argument from me there. Starting with Augustine (who, let us all be clear, had Issues with women), the organized church has not been a friend to women. This sad fact is only recently begun to change and those changes were not and are not welcomed by all or willingly brought about. I no longer believe that Jesus was divine. I think he was a prophet of sorts and a teacher who tried to show and tell a people how to become better people and stewards of the earth. He failed and was horribly killed for his teachings. And man (and woman) has been failing to get His message ever since. But that’s another thread. ---
**Author:** ![Ann\_Onimous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ea5d25/32.png) [@Ann\_Onimous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ann_Onimous)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 4:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/64 "2009-01-26T04:19:34Z")
> [@ivan\_astikov](#): > > That doesn’t come across very well in parts of the OT. Agreed. But, in the New Testament, it says in Matthew 22: 34 But when the Pharisees had heard that he had put the Sadducees to silence, they were gathered together. 35 Then one of them, which was a lawyer, asked him a question, tempting him, and saying, 36 Master, which is the great commandment in the law? 37 Jesus said unto him, Thou shalt love the Lord thy God with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy mind. 38 This is the first and great commandment. 39 And the second is like unto it, Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. 40 On these two commandments hang all the law and the prophets. Even the 10 commandments are nothing without these two: love God, and love your neighbor. With what Jesus said in verse 40, that covers those OT verses as well. He didn’t say, “Love thy neighbour as thyself, unless…” The love we are supposed to show to each other is unconditional, like I believe His love for us is. It is my belief that while Jesus was on Earth, the law was rewritten, and those two commandments are the most important ones. Those are how a Christian should live. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/65 "2009-01-26T04:53:56Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Okay, he’s not in left field. > > However, the ballpark is on Mars. Between the Face and the Pyramids of Cydonia. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 5:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/66 "2009-01-26T05:13:48Z")
I grew up around profoundly devout people. And there are a few people in the church who have that sort of self-righteous paranoid quality. It’s not the religion making them that way, of course–your father was like this before he “got saved”–so much as those people having these personality traits & religion not doing well at getting them out of it. As someone with a lot of family & friends in ministry, I can attest that many ministers would love to use the pulpit to educate that sort out of their attitude. ---
**Author:** ![Brynda](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Brynda](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Brynda)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/67 "2009-01-26T05:16:55Z")
My husband was recently diagnosed with metastatic cancer and we don’t know his prognosis yet. An ultra-religious “friend” of ours who knows we are not Christians and knows his diagnosis sent me a stupid forward about how God punishes non-believers with “untimely deaths.” Nice. Really, really nice. Her husband died of cancer. She, of all people, knows how scared we are. And she sends me this, to convince us to find God. She can kiss my ass. ---
**Author:** ![Lok](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e8c25b/32.png) [@Lok](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lok)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 5:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/68 "2009-01-26T05:38:41Z")
> [@WolfpackJeep](#): > > Ooo, we can request demons now? How do I go about getting one to inhabit/possess a motor vehicle? Don’t do it. You get great gas mileage, but you need to run over an innocent at least once a week or once every 150 miles, whichever comes first. You know how are it is to find an innocent in this country? :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Crafter\_Man](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crafter_man/32/458_2.png) [@Crafter\_Man](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crafter_Man)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 11:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/69 "2009-01-26T11:37:59Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > **C\_M** , I thought _you_ were quite religious yourself. Did I confuse you with someone? Must have. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/70 "2009-01-26T12:38:34Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > […] who in short wouldn’t give a crippled crab a rubber crutch unless he went through an organization endorsed by Billy Graham. I read that “rubber crotch” at first. You can imagine my befuddlement at the image. ---
**Author:** ![mischievous](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c2a13f/32.png) [@mischievous](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mischievous)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/71 "2009-01-26T12:56:15Z")
> [@Brynda](#): > > My husband was recently diagnosed with metastatic cancer and we don’t know his prognosis yet. An ultra-religious “friend” of ours who knows we are not Christians and knows his diagnosis sent me a stupid forward about how God punishes non-believers with “untimely deaths.” > > Nice. Really, really nice. Her husband died of cancer. She, of all people, knows how scared we are. And she sends me this, to convince us to find God. She can kiss my ass. Lovely. I acknowledge that there are good and nurturing religious people, and total religious dickwads. My thoughts on the matter are that any religion that encourages insularity - i.e. we are the chosen and we must band together against the unbelievers - has a tendency to produce jerks. It’s natural human behavior that when you have a strongly bound “in-group”, you care a lot less about mistreatment of people who aren’t a part of that group. When I lived in NYC, something like 70% of the complete asshole drivers I encountered were Hasidic Jews. I don’t think that this is because Judaism forces you to become an asshole, I think it’s because their religion leads them to live in isolated enclaves, and the rest of us start to seem less than human to them. ---
**Author:** ![Catamount](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/catamount/32/2840_2.png) [@Catamount](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Catamount)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/72 "2009-01-26T13:05:20Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And besides Revelations, how many Christians pay much attention to the New Testament ? Most of the Christians I know pay more attention to the Gospels than Revelations. I don’t remember hearing much from Revelations in the second lesson (traditionally from the NT, the first lesson was from the OT) when I was a Lutheran. > [@](#): > > And do you have any evidence that the fundamentalists are a “small” group ? This “small” group that buys millions of copies of the _Left Behind_ series, dominates the Republican Party and the conservative states, and gets laws like Proposition 8 passed ? It wasn’t just fundies who passed Prop 8. I know people who are fine upstanding citizens in every way except they think there’s nothing wrong with discriminating against The Gays. I do not stand with them. From my own experience (and I know anecdote =/ data) I know far more “regular” Christians than fundies. They are a very loud and annoying minority who are only getting attention because the Republican party decided to cater to them over mainstream Christians who are the majority in this country. > [@eleanorigby](#): > > I no longer believe that Jesus was divine. I think he was a prophet of sorts and a teacher who tried to show and tell a people how to become better people and stewards of the earth. He failed and was horribly killed for his teachings. And man (and woman) has been failing to get His message ever since. But that’s another thread. That’s pretty much how I feel. ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/73 "2009-01-26T13:40:04Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Because they are people and people have different attributes, some will fall into that category. BTW your father is correct in that demons do walk the earth, and the earth will one day be thrown into the lake of fire, what this has anything to do with why he didn’t take your kids to Disneyland eludes me. > > We don’t have to be perfect for Jesus to accept us, if we were perfect then we would not need Him. He takes us how we are. According to the New Testament the world should have ended 2,000 years ago so they have nothing to worry about. The way Jesus explains the end of the world, that generation would not pass away until all things were accomplished. In Matthew he also is quoted as saying there were some standing there who would not see death until all those things were accomplished. With all those demons creeping around the world God sure is playing an unfair game! Monavis ---
**Author:** ![monavis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e0b2c6/32.png) [@monavis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/monavis)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 1:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/74 "2009-01-26T13:52:07Z")
> [@CrazyCatLady](#): > > Now, that I don’t agree with at all. I know a _lot_ of people who hold very sincere Christian beliefs who have truly taken to heart Christ’s teachings on love and generosity and kindness. Christianity as they practice it is NOT a repellent, destructive thing, and they are not repellent, destructive people. > > However, you wouldn’t be able to say without knowing them fairly well that they’re Christians because they don’t go around making a big production out it. They’re not driving around with religious bumper stickers or Jesus fishes on their cars. They’re not constantly telling people about how much they go to church. They’re not out handing people Chick tracts or blathering on about how someone or other is going to hell. They just quietly live their lives in as Christ-like a manner as they can manage and go on with it. I agree with you; there are some people who wear their religion on their sleeves and remind me of the Pharisees who ran around thinking they were special because they were trying to show how religious they were; (who Jesus seemed to regard with scorn). He called them white washed tombs, hypocrites,sons of Satan.He was quoted as saying God heard the Publican’s prayer but not the Pharisee’s. There are good and sincere people who use their religion (no matter what religion) for good, some use it as a crutch, and others to make excuses for their own bad actions, it is not the religion but the individual who does the harm or good, what ever the case may be. Monavis ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/75 "2009-01-26T14:24:40Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > According to the New Testament the world should have ended 2,000 years ago so they have nothing to worry about. > > The way Jesus explains the end of the world, that generation would not pass away until all things were accomplished. In Matthew he also is quoted as saying there were some standing there who would not see death until all those things were accomplished. > > With all those demons creeping around the world God sure is playing an unfair game! > > Monavis Jesus speaks of harvest which is a reoccurring event, and it is on a personal level. I can assure you that His Words are true yesterday, today and tomorrow. And thank God that He does play a unfair game, God won before the first move was made. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 2:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/76 "2009-01-26T14:25:15Z")
> [@Hostile\_Dialect](#): > > Everyone talks about Christianity and Judaism as if their central tenets were love and respect and all that, but anyone who’s actually _read_ the Bible for comprehension knows that the central tenet of both is “fear our God or burn forever–or, ideally, both”. In Judaism, most of us don’t believe in an eternal hell. We say the longest anybody spends in Gehenna is one year. It’s also in the Talmud that “the righteous of all nations have a share in the World to Come”, where the World to Come is the Jewish heaven. Christians may say that everybody who doesn’t believe as they do will go to hell forever, but Jews don’t say that. Judaism does have its faults, but that’s not one of them. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/77 "2009-01-26T15:09:41Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > In Judaism, most of us don’t believe in an eternal hell. We say the longest anybody spends in Gehenna is one year. It’s also in the Talmud that “the righteous of all nations have a share in the World to Come”, where the World to Come is the Jewish heaven. Christians may say that everybody who doesn’t believe as they do will go to hell forever, but Jews don’t say that. Judaism does have its faults, but that’s not one of them. Color me intrigued. What does it mean to be “righteous” ? (in the context of Judaism and the post-mortem of course - I don’t want to spark a philosophical debate on the nature of righteousness :)). Is being a generally nice person enough, are there specific do’s and don’ts ? Are provisions made for those who are righteous in certain matters and unrighteous in others, or is it an all-or-nothing call ? An algorithm to gauge one’s righteousness to the nearest decimal would be tops of course, but that’s probably asking for much 🙂 [QUOTE=kanicbird] And thank God that He does play a unfair game, God won before the first move was made. [/QUOTE] What’s the point of playing then ? ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/78 "2009-01-26T15:21:04Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Color me intrigued. > What does it mean to be “righteous” ? (in the context of Judaism and the post-mortem of course - I don’t want to spark a philosophical debate on the nature of righteousness :)). Is being a generally nice person enough, are there specific do’s and don’ts ? Are provisions made for those who are righteous in certain matters and unrighteous in others, or is it an all-or-nothing call ? > > An algorithm to gauge one’s righteousness to the nearest decimal would be tops of course, but that’s probably asking for much 🙂 No, that’s just the sort of thing Judaism is good at. If you follow the [Seven Noachide Laws](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noahide_Laws), you’re a righteous gentile, and have a share in the Jewish World to Come. If you’re basically a good person, don’t worship idols (the consensus is that what Christians or Muslims do isn’t worshipping idols), and don’t eat limbs taken from living animals, you should be fine. ---
**Author:** ![Xan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ac8455/32.png) [@Xan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xan)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/79 "2009-01-26T15:22:35Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > No, that’s just the sort of thing Judaism is good at. > > If you follow the [Seven Noachide Laws](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noahide_Laws), you’re a righteous gentile, and have a share in the Jewish World to Come. > > If you’re basically a good person, don’t worship idols (the consensus is that what Christians or Muslims do isn’t worshipping idols), and don’t eat limbs taken from living animals, you should be fine. Sucks if you’re gay, doesn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/80 "2009-01-26T15:28:48Z")
> [@Xan](#): > > Sucks if you’re gay, doesn’t it? If the Orthodox are right, yes. If one of the other movements is, that’s probably OK. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923.md?page=5)