# Why do ultra-religious people feel they have a license to treat people like crap? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 25, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923 "2009-01-25T15:38:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Xan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/ac8455/32.png) [@Xan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Xan)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/81 "2009-01-26T15:34:24Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > If the Orthodox are right, yes. If one of the other movements is, that’s probably OK. It’s pretty explicit in saying “no homosexual acts” I don’t see how there can be debate on it. Not saying I agree with them ( I sure as fuck don’t) I just don’t see how anyone can say any Jewish laws allow it when they clearly don’t. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/82 "2009-01-26T15:45:28Z")
> [@Xan](#): > > It’s pretty explicit in saying “no homosexual acts” I don’t see how there can be debate on it. Not saying I agree with them ( I sure as fuck don’t) I just don’t see how anyone can say any Jewish laws allow it when they clearly don’t. That’s of course not the original text. The original text is the Torah in Hebrew, and that is subject to interpretation. There’s been [a fair bit of debate over what that passage actually says](http://www.religioustolerance.org/hom_bibh5.htm). One interpretation is that what is actually forbidden is homosexual sex as part of a pagan ritual of some sort, another is that homosexual sex in a woman’s bed is forbidden. Don’t forget that _sola scriptura_ and Biblical literalism are not concepts you find in modern Judaism. Those are Protestant ideas. We have a lot of tradition and rabbinical commentary, which we think you need to understand the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/83 "2009-01-26T15:53:37Z")
> [@Anne\_Neville](#): > > No, that’s just the sort of thing Judaism is good at. > > If you follow the [Seven Noachide Laws](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Noahide_Laws), you’re a righteous gentile, and have a share in the Jewish World to Come. > > If you’re basically a good person, don’t worship idols (the consensus is that what Christians or Muslims do isn’t worshipping idols), and don’t eat limbs taken from living animals, you should be fine. Hmmm…I’m probably covered, except for that limbs of animals bit - I’m pretty sure I’ve eaten oysters once, and if black pudding is out on the no eating blood count I’m definitely screwed. Still, 6 out of 7, that’s way better than my Ten Commandments GPA. I’ll take my chances with you guys, if that’s no trouble 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/84 "2009-01-26T16:04:55Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > What’s the point of playing then ? Seems to be “because He said so!” ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/85 "2009-01-26T16:08:04Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > What’s the point of playing then ? Because we are on God’s side [QUOTE=Xan] It’s pretty explicit in saying “no homosexual acts” I don’t see how there can be debate on it. Not saying I agree with them ( I sure as fuck don’t) I just don’t see how anyone can say any Jewish laws allow it when they clearly don’t. [/QUOTE] There are many prohibitions in scripture. It would be the standard we would have to live up to to make it on our own merit. Jesus knows we can’t live up to it, He’s OK with it and willing to take us how we are if we let Him. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 4:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/86 "2009-01-26T16:13:53Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Because we are on God’s side. I didn’t mean for us, I meant for God. What’s the point of him playing a game he’s already won before the board was even set ? ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/87 "2009-01-26T16:24:27Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I didn’t mean for us, I meant for God. What’s the point of him playing a game he’s already won before the board was even set ? My take on it is this verse: [QUOTE=John 15:13 (NIV)] Greater love has no one than this, that he lay down his life for his friends. [/QUOTE] My take on it is that we are created in a way that Jesus had to Love us to the max limit that Love can be. In order for His Love for us to reach this level we had to be made in a way that Jesus would have to die for us, which means we had to be made in a way that would afford Him the opportunity to. If we were not made in a way that we would need a redeemer his Love for us would be less then max, but the Father didn’t want that, He wanted His son to unconditionally Love, cherish totally completely adore us. We are the inheritance of Jesus and we reap the benefit of a blessed eternal life, not because of who we are but because of Who Jesus is. ---
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/88 "2009-01-26T16:38:30Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > I didn’t mean for us, I meant for God. What’s the point of him playing a game he’s already won before the board was even set ? He’s a sore loser with a mean temper. \*“Let the Wookie win, R2.” \* Or else, y’know? ---
**Author:** ![jayjay](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jayjay/32/6765_2.png) [@jayjay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jayjay)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/89 "2009-01-26T16:52:04Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Because we are on God’s side Speak for yourself. ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/90 "2009-01-26T16:52:58Z")
I wonder if some of it’s just a very simplistic interpretation - my in-laws love to go on about how “Christian” they are, but they’re a couple of the biggest jerks on the planet and also believe that once they accepted Jesus as their savior, all bets were off. Doesn’t matter how they act or how they treat people, they’ve accepted Jesus, so they’re off to heaven. It’s like they have a blank check to be their true nasty selves. Now, my in-laws also aren’t very bright - they’re more of the “Pastor John said it, so it’s true” school of thought, and I’m sure “Pastor John” caplitalizes on that. I doubt they’ve read the Bible. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 5:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/91 "2009-01-26T17:00:27Z")
> [@Kobal2](#): > > Hmmm…I’m probably covered, except for that limbs of animals bit - I’m pretty sure I’ve eaten oysters once, and if black pudding is out on the no eating blood count I’m definitely screwed. Still, 6 out of 7, that’s way better than my Ten Commandments GPA. I’ll take my chances with you guys, if that’s no trouble 🙂 Would oysters count? Aren’t they dead by the time they’re eaten? Do they feel pain or have any sense of what is happening if they are eaten alive? Also, black pudding is usually now made of blood from slaughtered animals, not like in the bad old days when live animals were actually tapped for blood, so it may not fit the ban on “eating the limb of a living animals”. The closest I come to the violating the Noachic diet law is my like for rare steaks, I think that’s probably safe. But while Maimonedes ruled that my Jesus-worship wasn’t idolatry for Celto-Teutonic me, I’ve read a few Jewish sites that would differ. But it’s a step up from hanging dead people on trees as offerings to the Celtic god Esus or to the Teutonic Odin Alfader. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/92 "2009-01-26T17:02:21Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > My take on it is this verse: > My take on it is that we are created in a way that Jesus had to Love us to the max limit that Love can be. In order for His Love for us to reach this level we had to be made in a way that Jesus would have to die for us, which means we had to be made in a way that would afford Him the opportunity to. > > If we were not made in a way that we would need a redeemer his Love for us would be less then max, but the Father didn’t want that, He wanted His son to unconditionally Love, cherish totally completely adore us. We are the inheritance of Jesus and we reap the benefit of a blessed eternal life, not because of who we are but because of Who Jesus is. … yes, that’s not answering the question, is it ? Why make the Earth, the Universe, us and the whole shebang, including demons, lakes of fire and everlasting damnation if all is pre-ordained and everything goes according to plan (and furthermore can’t \*not \*go according to plan). What’s the point of playing a game _at all_ if you can not lose it ? Unless there’s some cosmic wager and God’s a card sharp, I suppose. Is God a card sharp ? ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 5:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/93 "2009-01-26T17:08:14Z")
> [@monavis](#): > > According to the New Testament the world should have ended 2,000 years ago so they have nothing to worry about. > > The way Jesus explains the end of the world, that generation would not pass away until all things were accomplished. In Matthew he also is quoted as saying there were some standing there who would not see death until all those things were accomplished. > > With all those demons creeping around the world God sure is playing an unfair game! > > Monavis You never do read the links I give you on this subject, do you? Jesus never talked about the end of the Earth, He predicted the end of that Eon within that generation. That Eon was the Era of the Covenant through Moses that established the Priestly Sacrificial system- that came to a definitive end in 70 A.D, right on schedule. The books of David Chilton and Ken Gentry draw really interesting parallels of Jesus’ “end of the aion” message in Matt 24, Mark 13 & Luke 21, John’s Revelation, and the Roman Siege of Judea from 66-70 A.D. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/94 "2009-01-26T17:09:28Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Would oysters count? Aren’t they dead by the time they’re eaten? Do they feel pain or have any sense of what is happening if they are eaten alive ? They’re alive all right - in fact you’re liable to get food poisoning if you eat dead raw oysters. As for pain or a sense of being digested alive, I have no idea. No oyster has ever brayed in anguish, that much I can say for sure, but… 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/95 "2009-01-26T17:18:39Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Because they are people and people have different attributes, some will fall into that category. BTW your father is correct in that demons do walk the earth, and the earth will one day be thrown into the lake of fire, what this has anything to do with why he didn’t take your kids to Disneyland eludes me. > > We don’t have to be perfect for Jesus to accept us, if we were perfect then we would not need Him. He takes us how we are. Oh, wow. Please post proof that demons exist. Please post proof that someone named Jesus existed who had supernatural powers. ---
**Author:** ![Clothahump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/51bf81/32.png) [@Clothahump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Clothahump)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/96 "2009-01-26T17:23:13Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And besides Revelations, how many Christians pay much attention to the New Testament ? Durn few. Otherwise, they’d be familiar with Matthew, chapter 6: “1”: Take heed that ye do not your alms before men, to be seen of them: otherwise ye have no reward of your Father which is in heaven. “2”: Therefore when thou doest thine alms, do not sound a trumpet before thee, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets, that they may have glory of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. “3”: But when thou doest alms, let not thy left hand know what thy right hand doeth: “4”: That thine alms may be in secret: and thy Father which seeth in secret himself shall reward thee openly. “5”: And when thou prayest, thou shalt not be as the hypocrites are: for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and in the corners of the streets, that they may be seen of men. Verily I say unto you, They have their reward. “6”: But thou, when thou prayest, enter into thy closet, and when thou hast shut thy door, pray to thy Father which is in secret; and thy Father which seeth in secret shall reward thee openly. If they were, we wouldn’t know that they were Christians, because they wouldn’t be bragging about it. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/97 "2009-01-26T17:24:58Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > The closest I come to the violating the Noachic diet law is my like for rare steaks, I think that’s probably safe. Very likely. The juice in rare steaks isn’t blood. Some of us eat rare kosher steaks (which have been soaked and salted to drain any blood from them), and they’re still juicy. > [@](#): > > Would oysters count? Aren’t they dead by the time they’re eaten? Do they feel pain or have any sense of what is happening if they are eaten alive? I don’t know. I don’t know if there’s been a lot of thought put into this (though I wouldn’t be at all surprised if there had). Shellfish are not kosher, so you tend not to hear about a lot of Jewish debates about them. To be on the safe side, don’t eat anything that’s still alive. Of course, easy for me to say- the idea of eating something that’s alive icks me out. So does blood sausage/pudding. I saw some on _Molto Mario_ the other day, and it looked disgusting. I’m glad I have a religious excuse to pass on it. That means there’s more for you guys. > [@](#): > > I’ve read a few Jewish sites that would differ. That applies to almost anything Judaism has ever said about anything. Two Jews, three opinions. Judaism hasn’t had any universally recognized central authority for the past 1900 years, and it shows. > [@Kobal2](#): > > I’ll take my chances with you guys, if that’s no trouble Sure. Don’t forget, either, that even if you are bad enough to be sent to Gehenna, we think it’s for a year, max. There’s an interesting custom that comes from that. If you’re Jewish and your parent, spouse, sibling, or child dies, there’s a prayer that you’re supposed to say every day for a period of time after the death. For a spouse, sibling, or child, that period of time is 30 days. For a parent, it’s either 11 or 12 months. The mourning period is called “12 months” in Hebrew, but some people only do it for 11. The idea behind that is that you don’t want to imply that your parent was bad enough to be sent to Gehenna for the full twelve months. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/98 "2009-01-26T17:31:09Z")
> [@Katriona](#): > > I wonder if some of it’s just a very simplistic interpretation - my in-laws love to go on about how “Christian” they are, but they’re a couple of the biggest jerks on the planet and also believe that once they accepted Jesus as their savior, all bets were off. Doesn’t matter how they act or how they treat people, they’ve accepted Jesus, so they’re off to heaven… This is true in the extent when you accept Jesus you are saved, but if a saved person tried to still ‘live like the devil’ he will find himself running into a wall of divine discipline If Jesus wants calls you or just taken out of the world if not. [QUOTE=Kobal2] … yes, that’s not answering the question, is it ? Why make the Earth, the Universe, us and the whole shebang, including demons, lakes of fire and everlasting damnation if all is pre-ordained and everything goes according to plan (and furthermore can’t not go according to plan). What’s the point of playing a game at all if you can not lose it ? Unless there’s some cosmic wager and God’s a card sharp, I suppose. Is God a card sharp ? [/QUOTE] I’ve always heard it as card shark. The reason is that it is the greatest gift possible the Father can give His Son. The Father made creation for His Son, He made it in the way to bring His Son, who He Loves, the maximum glory, that ‘involves playing this game’ and much pain at this time. God would know exactly what must be done to do that, and we are living through it. An analogy which admittedly not that exact: Think about a mother and baby, a mother who totally and unconditionally Loves that baby, and rejoices in raising that baby. (unfortunately this is very rare these days IMHO), though Jesus is the bridegroom (masculine), while the church is the bride (feminine), having to go through childbirth is a very painful process but the rewards are very great (for this type of mother & the blessed child), and for many well worth it. ---
**Author:** ![kanicbird](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/5f8ce5/32.png) [@kanicbird](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kanicbird)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/99 "2009-01-26T17:32:50Z")
> [@Clothahump](#): > > Oh, wow. > > Please post proof that demons exist. Please post proof that someone named Jesus existed who had supernatural powers. Both are listed in Wikipedia :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Uvula\_Donor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e19adc/32.png) [@Uvula\_Donor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Uvula_Donor)\ **Post date:** [January 26, 2009, 5:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923/100 "2009-01-26T17:44:13Z")
> [@kanicbird](#): > > Both are listed in Wikipedia :rolleyes: So’s Odin. What’s your point? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923.md?page=4) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-religious-people-feel-they-have-a-license-to-treat-people-like-crap/482923.md?page=6)