# Why do ultra-right-wingers flip out over gold? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 9, 2011, 11:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-right-wingers-flip-out-over-gold/592138 "2011-08-09T23:22:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-right-wingers-flip-out-over-gold/592138/21 "2011-08-10T02:19:41Z")
In a post-apocalyptic word, iodine will be a far more useful element. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 2:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-right-wingers-flip-out-over-gold/592138/22 "2011-08-10T02:36:39Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > apparently nobody believes in a mad-maxian apocalypse, huh? The only ones who talk about collapse of civilization seem to be moronic libtards who ascribe their dumb imaginings to decent Conservative folks. Excuse me? The conservatives have been big fans of apocalyptic scenarios for ages. And “decent conservative” like “compassionate conservatism” is an oxymoron. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 2:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-right-wingers-flip-out-over-gold/592138/23 "2011-08-10T02:37:39Z")
Some right-wing people really believe the Obama administration will destroy the American economy and make the dollar valueless. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-right-wingers-flip-out-over-gold/592138/24 "2011-08-10T02:49:10Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Some right-wing people really believe the Obama administration will destroy the American economy and make the dollar valueless. For that matter, [about a fourth](http://www.usnews.com/opinion/blogs/robert-schlesinger/2010/03/24/party-of-nuts-poll-shows-gop-thinks-obama-is-muslim-socialist) think that Obama may be the Antichrist. > [@](#): > > Majorities of Republicans also believe that Obama is a socialist (67 percent), that he wants to take away Americans’ guns (61 percent), is a Muslim (57 percent), has done “many” things that are not constitutional (55 percent), and wants to turn the country over to a one world government (51 percent). ---
**Author:** ![Rachellelogram](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rachellelogram/32/8689_2.png) [@Rachellelogram](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rachellelogram)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-right-wingers-flip-out-over-gold/592138/25 "2011-08-10T02:58:56Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > LOL. Does anyone here actually know one single “ultra-right-winger”? Unfortunately I’m related to at least 6 of them. Plus their children. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-right-wingers-flip-out-over-gold/592138/26 "2011-08-10T03:01:34Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > It doesn’t have to be a sole medium of exchange to have value. Short of a total apocalyptic scenario where not only civilizations collapse but there are only a scant few humans left, I just don’t see gold ever being worthless. If we’re talking about a scenario where civilization goes to hell in a hand basket making currency worthless, durable items like gold and silver will still retain value. > [@Chronos](#): > > The thing is, even in the very few applications where gold really is useful for more than ornamentation, you only need a tiny amount of it. How much weight of gold do you think there is in a foil a few dozen atoms thick? If we were going to be basing worth on usefulness, it would make much more sense to consider iron, copper, or aluminum the standard for exchange. > [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > In a post-apocalyptic word, iodine will be a far more useful element. Once you start talking about things in terms of direct utility, aren’t you talking about barter? Well, the boundary can be fuzzy. For example, suppose I have a piece of land and can do enough gardening and hunting to feed myself directly. Very good, but to live a _civilized_ life, I’ll need other things that I can’t provide for myself, lacking either the physical resources or the skills. Distillation is a time-honored way of converting agricultural produce into a more compact and durable form. If I can produce enough, I can likely obtain all kinds of things in exchange for bottles of liquor; the recipients can drink it, or use it as a solvent, or _trade it themselves_ further down the road. If my neighbor builds a forge instead of a still, he can turn out a lot of knives and nails, and exchange them for useful things. Those are good durable goods; it might make sense for his trade partners to get a lot more nails than they actually need themselves, because maybe the next guy will need some, and have something good. And so on. Depending on the density and distribution of settlement, and the availability of resources and skills in each area, at some point it becomes easier for everyone to use a few _very_ compact, _very_ durable media for most exchanges, rather than everyone trying to maintain not only a personal supply but a trading stock of _all_ the things that someone who has something useful to us might want in return. You see where this is going. It can be _more_ practical to have a currency of some intrinsic value that _doesn’t_ actually get used in practice very much. Would gold serve? It’s got a pretty good historical track record; there have been few civilized societies where one _couldn’t_ trade gold for things of more immediate value. I wouldn’t count on it retaining anything like its present value in relation to things of more immediate use, like liquor or nails or iodine or salt. In that sense, it’s a terrible “investment” for a post-catastrophic civilization. But the odds of any particular thing of value being obtainable in exchange for gold seem pretty good. If I had laid in my basic stores already and was looking for a repository for the rest of my fiat money before it blew away, I don’t think I’d want to fill the shelves with twenty thousand bottles of tincture of iodine. ---
**Author:** ![Bloodless\_Turnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@Bloodless\_Turnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bloodless_Turnip)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-right-wingers-flip-out-over-gold/592138/27 "2011-08-10T03:31:43Z")
Gold is indeed a good way to barter in an economic collapse. But by gold, I mean junk gold. > [@](#): > > What I would do if I were you: Besides gold coins, buy a lot of small gold rings and other jewelry. They should be less expensive than gold coins, and if the SHTF bad, you’ll not be losing money, selling premium quality gold coins for the price of junk gold. If I could travel back in time, I’d buy a small bag worth of gold rings. > > Small time thieves will snatch gold chains right out of your neck and sell them at these small dealers found everywhere. This is VERY common at train stations, subways and other crowded areas. > > So, my advice, if you are preparing for a small economical crisis, gold coins make sense. You will keep the value of the stuff and be able to sell it for its actual cost to gold dealers or maybe other survivalists that know the true value of the item. > > In my case, gold coins would have been an excellent investment, saving me from loosing money when the local economy crashed. Even though things are bad, I can go to a bank down town and get paid for what a gold coin is truly worth, same goes for pure silver. But where I live, in my local are small time dealers will only pay you the value of junk gold, no matter what kind of gold you have. So, I’d have to say that if TSHTF bad, gold jewelry is a better trade item than gold coins. [Lessons from Argentina’s economic collapse](http://www.silverbearcafe.com/private/10.08/tshtf2.html) ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-right-wingers-flip-out-over-gold/592138/28 "2011-08-10T04:07:08Z")
> [@code\_grey](#): > > The only ones who talk about collapse of civilization seem to be moronic libtards who ascribe their dumb imaginings to decent Conservative folks. You’ve been told to stop using this term unless you’re posting in the Pit. This is your last reminder. > [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > And “decent conservative” like “compassionate conservatism” is an oxymoron. Stay on topic, please. This is about gold and the right wing, not an evaluation of conservatism. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 4:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-right-wingers-flip-out-over-gold/592138/29 "2011-08-10T04:07:23Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > I see ads for buying gold all the time in “American Rifleman,” one of the magazines offered by the NRA. I also would often hear pitches for gold on G. Gordon Liddy’s show, both from him and from the commercial breaks. (I rarely listen to his show anymore - Liddy seems lacking in energy and coherence and I think his faculties may be dulling.) In any case, none of these advertisements for gold ever push any kind of “apocalypse” angle. Ever. The idea they always put forth is that gold is a good financial investment - they never imply that people should buy it to use as currency after the fall of civilization! Did it never occur to you to ask why _this_ particular “good investment” would be so popular to a particular group? Hell, have you never read any of **Susanann** ’s posts? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 4:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-right-wingers-flip-out-over-gold/592138/30 "2011-08-10T04:10:20Z")
I don’t know. All I know is that gold would be useless if the government collapsed. The best things to have in the event of a real breakdown of society would be guns, ammo, alcohol, painkillers, antibiotics, and birth control. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-right-wingers-flip-out-over-gold/592138/31 "2011-08-10T04:22:48Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > The best things to have in the event of a real breakdown of society would be guns, ammo, alcohol, painkillers, antibiotics, and birth control. Shoot, a fella could have a pretty good weekend in Vegas with all that stuff. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-right-wingers-flip-out-over-gold/592138/32 "2011-08-10T04:26:22Z")
Lol. Just watched that movie last week. One of the best. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-right-wingers-flip-out-over-gold/592138/33 "2011-08-10T04:40:24Z")
There seems to be an industry of apocalyptic scare-mongering going on with all kinds of venders buying time on talk radio telling teabaggers they have to get ready for the imminent social collapse (which is inevitable, of course, now that the President is a you know what), by buying not only gold, but also crap like vegetable seeds and other apocalypse gear. It’s all a hustle. Teabaggers are easy marks. Remember when they all got stampeded into stockpiling ammo? Same thing. ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 4:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-right-wingers-flip-out-over-gold/592138/34 "2011-08-10T04:51:27Z")
In April, 1906, just after the San Francisco earthquake and fire, Amadeo Giannini rescued the gold stored in his Bank of Italy (now the Bank of America) by hiding it in his stepfather’s vegetable wagon. As a result, his bank was able to honor withdrawals right after the disaster. 🙂 I used to know an ultra-right winger–Alfred Wayne Roy, my high-school government teacher at Redondo High in the 60s (died about 1990). He once told the class that he had scientific proof that blacks were inferior to whites! And he said he would go into the middle of Watts and say that! :eek: ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-right-wingers-flip-out-over-gold/592138/35 "2011-08-10T04:56:47Z")
I hope you encouraged him to do that. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-right-wingers-flip-out-over-gold/592138/36 "2011-08-10T05:16:36Z")
> [@dougie\_monty](#): > > I used to know an ultra-right winger–Alfred Wayne Roy, my high-school government teacher at Redondo High in the 60s (died about 1990). He once told the class that he had scientific proof that blacks were inferior to whites! And he said he would go into the middle of Watts and say that! :eek: Are you sure his name wasn’t [Rex Kramer?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7S5BP-tvR8) ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-right-wingers-flip-out-over-gold/592138/37 "2011-08-10T05:42:10Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I hope you encouraged him to do that. No, but that afternoon, when I got home from school, I told my Mom about it. She said, “Yeah! And then he’d run like hell!” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![dougie\_monty](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/439d5e/32.png) [@dougie\_monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dougie_monty)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-right-wingers-flip-out-over-gold/592138/38 "2011-08-10T05:47:04Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Are you sure his name wasn’t [Rex Kramer?](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7S5BP-tvR8) I’m positive. Mr. Roy may have been a “Danger Seeker”; at least he was a verbal daredevil just to say that in class–although there were no black kids in the senior class that year at Redondo High. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-right-wingers-flip-out-over-gold/592138/39 "2011-08-10T06:37:29Z")
> [@Gorsnak](#): > > Everybody knows that post-apocalyptic currency will be bottlecaps. Gold. Hah! Do you have any idea how heavy that shit is? I’ll give you 5 .45 bullets, 2 .223 and these three broken shotguns for a [del]burger[/del]Iguana-on-a-stick, medium fries and a large nuka cola. ---
**Author:** ![Measure\_for\_Measure](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/measure_for_measure/32/557_2.png) [@Measure\_for\_Measure](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Measure_for_Measure)\ **Post date:** [August 10, 2011, 6:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-right-wingers-flip-out-over-gold/592138/40 "2011-08-10T06:56:09Z")
If a one ounce coin that you can hold in your hand is worth $300, that’s pretty cool. When it’s worth $1700, that’s _really_ cool. People buy baseball cards, fermented grape juice and wall hangings and call them investments. Part of gold’s appeal is its shininess: buyers pay for this mystique with correspondingly low risk-adjusted returns. > [@](#): > > Is there an intelligent reason to invest in gold at the magnitude ultra-right-wingers recommend? Or is it just more nonsensical Glenn-Beckish paranoia? I dunno: what magnitude do they recommend? Think of gold as another form of currency; like foreign currencies, gold does not pay dividends or interest. If you think the dollar will collapse due to Obamarama, then you are logically saying that another currency will zoom upwards. So why don’t the wingers discuss Swiss Francs, Australian dollars or Brazilian reals? Mathematically, not all currencies can decline simultaneously. So clearly, there’s an underlying hyperemotionalism operating here. For more info and some more serious justifications for precious metal investing, try this thread, thoughtfully resurrected today by **Bricker** : [Is there a GQ response to the right wing marketing of gold? - Factual Questions - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=539805) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-right-wingers-flip-out-over-gold/592138.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-ultra-right-wingers-flip-out-over-gold/592138.md?page=3)