# Why do we call a doctor "doctor"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [December 17, 2008, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-call-a-doctor-doctor/477531 "2008-12-17T07:51:18Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![HumanMonkeyGod](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/c67d28/32.png) [@HumanMonkeyGod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HumanMonkeyGod)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-call-a-doctor-doctor/477531/1 "2008-12-17T07:51:18Z")
or why I can’t call a mechanic “mec”. Why do doctors need to be called by their job? Is it rude not to? Like if I walked into a doctor’s office, saw his name was “Doctor Smith”, and then when I saw him called him “Mr Smith”. Would he be offended? ---
**Author:** ![Santo\_Rugger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e95f7d/32.png) [@Santo\_Rugger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Santo_Rugger)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-call-a-doctor-doctor/477531/2 "2008-12-17T07:59:59Z")
For the same reason we call a Priest “Father” or a Sargent “Sargent” or the president “President”. It’s their title. > [@](#): > > A title is a prefix or suffix added to a person’s name to signify either veneration, an official position or a professional or academic qualification. In some languages, titles may even be inserted between a first and last name (for example, Graf in German, Cardinal in Catholic usage or clerical titles such as Archbishop or Ter in the Armenian Apostolic Church). Some titles are hereditary. > **[Title](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Title)** > > A title is one or more words used before or after a person's name, in certain contexts. It may signify their generation, official position, military rank, professional or academic qualification, or nobility. In some languages, titles may be inserted between the first and last name (for example, Graf in German or clerical titles such as Cardinal in Catholic usage – Richard Cardinal Cushing). Some titles are hereditary. > Titles include: > Some people object to the usage of titles to denote marital s... If you check out the Wiki page, you’ll note that some titles are written, while others are spoken. Or is that what you’re asking? ---
**Author:** ![Vox\_Imperatoris](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Vox\_Imperatoris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Vox_Imperatoris)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 8:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-call-a-doctor-doctor/477531/3 "2008-12-17T08:06:45Z")
> [@HumanMonkeyGod](#): > > or why I can’t call a mechanic “mec”. Why do doctors need to be called by their job? Is it rude not to? Like if I walked into a doctor’s office, saw his name was “Doctor Smith”, and then when I saw him called him “Mr Smith”. Would he be offended? Because doctors are considered by society to be worthy of respect for their dedication in going through medical school and for their service as healers. That’s the answer; whether that is a correct value judgement is for you to decide. Valete, Vox Imperatoris ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-call-a-doctor-doctor/477531/4 "2008-12-17T08:18:41Z")
Ever since I was about 18 or so I have called doctors by their first names. When I was psych nursing I would often be at parties with doctors, I couldn’t imagine having a drink with someone and having a conversation along the lines of, “Hey, doctor, did you see the cricket score?” ---
**Author:** ![aldiboronti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9fc348/32.png) [@aldiboronti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aldiboronti)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 8:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-call-a-doctor-doctor/477531/5 "2008-12-17T08:26:12Z")
> [@HumanMonkeyGod](#): > > Like if I walked into a doctor’s office, saw his name was “Doctor Smith”, and then when I saw him called him “Mr Smith”. Would he be offended? The only case where it would be correct to use Mister is if you were in England and entered the office of a surgeon. Their traditional term of address is Mister, reflecting the historical practice of surgery by barber-surgeons rather than doctors. (The early medical profession viewed surgery with contempt, regarding it as beneath the dignity of a doctor). Traditions die hard in England! ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-call-a-doctor-doctor/477531/6 "2008-12-17T08:41:41Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > The only case where it would be correct to use Mister is if you were in England and entered the office of a surgeon. Their traditional term of address is Mister, reflecting the historical practice of surgery by barber-surgeons rather than doctors. (The early medical profession viewed surgery with contempt, regarding it as beneath the dignity of a doctor). And if previous threads on the subject are to be believed, do **not** call an English surgeon “Doctor”. Okay, if you do they’ll probably only correct you, but it seems that today they’re very proud of their title of “Mister”. (How would you address a English female surgeon?) Also, English doctors, despite being called Doctor as far as I know, do not actually hold a doctorate, but rather a baccalaureate. ---
**Author:** ![Chez\_Guevara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/aeb1de/32.png) [@Chez\_Guevara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chez_Guevara)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 9:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-call-a-doctor-doctor/477531/7 "2008-12-17T09:15:20Z")
> [@aldiboronti](#): > > The only case where it would be correct to use Mister is if you were in England and entered the office of a surgeon. Their traditional term of address is Mister, reflecting the historical practice of surgery by barber-surgeons rather than doctors. (The early medical profession viewed surgery with contempt, regarding it as beneath the dignity of a doctor). According to [this source](http://www.sgu.edu/NewsEvents.nsf/webContent/81420EDAAE65E11B85256E12005A8500) the appellation Mister derives from Master or, more accurately, one of the ‘Masters, Governors of the Mystery and Commonalty of Barbers and Surgery of London’. > [@](#): > > King Henry VIII gave each member of this newly formed group the right to be addressed as “Master,” and in time “Master” was pronounced “Mr.” So when a British Surgeon is addressed as “Mr.” he is actually being honoured, as in reality he is being called “Master.” Female surgeons are called Miss, Ms. or Mrs. ---
**Author:** ![Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8491ac/32.png) [@Fake\_Tales\_of\_San\_Francisco](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fake_Tales_of_San_Francisco)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 10:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-call-a-doctor-doctor/477531/8 "2008-12-17T10:16:21Z")
Calling surgeons ‘Mr’ in England has nothing to do with tradition. There is no conscious thought process behind the language use, where the speaker is thinking “Oh 'eck, I better keep to tradition and call that surgeon Mr!” There are myriad words we use in language today that may or may not (I think the above poster is correct in that it was originally Master) have origins in tradition. The point is, it’s not indicative of backwardness or that Britain is somehow stuck in the dark ages. I think it probably depends on the doctor and where you are in the world. I was on first name terms with my GP in England and generally have been with most have the doctors I’ve had. Referred to her as ‘Dr Martin’, simply because everybody knew who I was talking about. But then, > [@](#): > > Like if I walked into a doctor’s office, saw his name was “Doctor Smith”, and then when I saw him called him “Mr Smith”. Would he be offended? I think that’s mostly just social conventions. Referring to someone who is professionally called doctor, or father, or sir, or whatever titles that person may have, as ‘Mr’ or ‘Mrs’ is just simply impolite and socially wrong. Unless of course, you know the person personally. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-call-a-doctor-doctor/477531/9 "2008-12-17T11:31:28Z")
How does calling a surgeon “Mr” not fit either of these two definitions of tradition (from Wordnet): [ul] [li]An inherited pattern of thought or action[/li][li]Custom: a specific pattern of long standing[/li][/ul] ? ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slip\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f475e1/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slip\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slip_1)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 12:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-call-a-doctor-doctor/477531/10 "2008-12-17T12:05:13Z")
Not sure about the backstory around the honorific, but it’s an interesting question. Calling me Mr. instead of Dr. in a doc/patient relationship has very rarely happened; it’s usually a patient calling me by my first name. I wouldn’t be offended per se, but I would correct you (I’m a psychiatrist FTR). And I generally will call you Mr. or Ms. as appropriate, unless invited to call you by your first name. Why do I insist on the title in the professional arena? It reminds you - AND me - of the nature of our relationship (and sometimes the doc needs reminding more than the patient, as one of my supervisors used to say). I am not your buddy (and vice versa); I am your physician. Socially? It’s first names almost always; on the rare occasion I’m introduced as “Dr”, I’ll quickly add that first names are fine. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 12:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-call-a-doctor-doctor/477531/11 "2008-12-17T12:32:22Z")
I don’t call them doctor myself, I call them [silence]. As in “Good morning. I have something that needs checking. Yes I can lie down. I do smoke. Yes, I know, but you gotta die of something. Ha ha, you’re right about that. Thank you. Good bye, and have a pleasant day.” Added bonus : neatly avoids the doctor/doctoress & Mrs/Miss minefields. Would I offend you, doper docs ? ---
**Author:** ![Sigmagirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c89c15/32.png) [@Sigmagirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sigmagirl)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 12:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-call-a-doctor-doctor/477531/12 "2008-12-17T12:35:43Z")
I have known some lawyers who insisted on being called “Attorney Smith.” I avoided them. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slip\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f475e1/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slip\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slip_1)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 1:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-call-a-doctor-doctor/477531/13 "2008-12-17T13:25:41Z")
Wouldn’t offend me, Kobal. I might notice that you never call me by a name at all and be curious about it (hey, all shrinks get therapist training of some sort), but it’s not offensive. Can definitely relate to the complications of the Miss/Mrs issue - which is why it gets all blurred together as Mizz on my end :). But Doctoress - that’s a new one. ---
**Author:** ![Kobal2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kobal2/32/20_2.png) [@Kobal2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kobal2)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-call-a-doctor-doctor/477531/14 "2008-12-17T14:23:58Z")
> [@Freudian\_Slip](#): > > Wouldn’t offend me, Kobal. I might notice that you never call me by a name at all and be curious about it (hey, all shrinks get therapist training of some sort), but it’s not offensive. Ha-ah ! But that makes me mysterious. Always a good thing with the ladies. Soo…how YOU doin’ ? 😃 > [@](#): > > Can definitely relate to the complications of the Miss/Mrs issue - which is why it gets all blurred together as Mizz on my end :). But Doctoress - that’s a new one. Obviously, and I should have thought about that : it’s the result of a typical Franco-French quandary that’d never happen in English. You don’t have gender for nouns, but we do. The (slow news week) question being : should we call a female doc “Madame le docteur” or “Madame la docteur” ? Docteur is a masculine noun, so grammatically, the masculine article “le” is the correct one. But it’s weird (and, according to some, intolerably patriarcal) to use a masculine article for a female person. But “la docteur” is both semanticaly incorrect and weird sounding. Some offered the new, feminine word “la doctoresse” as a solution, which caused… more outcry :p. For that matter, the same problem occurs with all titles - mayor, minister, president etc. I \*think \*the official stance settled on “Madame le docteur” in the end, but I’d rather not risk causing a minor fuss over it with someone who’s hung up about that sort of thing. Especially should she happen to have needles and scalpels at hand 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Cervaise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cervaise/32/16693_2.png) [@Cervaise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cervaise)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-call-a-doctor-doctor/477531/15 "2008-12-17T15:55:19Z")
I would prefer that you all call me Citizen. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slip\_1](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/f475e1/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slip\_1](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slip_1)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-call-a-doctor-doctor/477531/16 "2008-12-17T16:22:43Z")
Being mysterious to a psychiatrist isn’t always a good thing, though 😃 ---
**Author:** ![susan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/susan/32/17537_2.png) [@susan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/susan)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 4:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-call-a-doctor-doctor/477531/17 "2008-12-17T16:26:13Z")
A person’s profession (as, “Smith” in the OP) often was reflected in their name. The idea of addressing people, by name or honorific, by their work (or relative status) is not unusual. (“Waiter, another latte over here!”) ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-call-a-doctor-doctor/477531/18 "2008-12-17T16:28:16Z")
> [@Sigmagirl](#): > > I have known some lawyers who insisted on being called “Attorney Smith.” I avoided them. In French, lawyers and notaries are addressed as _maître_ (abbreviated Me), which means “master”. Interestingly enough, lawyers here (Quebec) usually hold a baccalaureate, not a master’s degree (or a doctorate like in the US). Yes, I know that both the MD and JD are basically undergraduate degrees despite being called doctorates. There are some interesting differences, though: in the US they are professional degrees, while here you can enter university directly in law or medicine. > [@Kobal2](#): > > I \*think \*the official stance settled on “Madame le docteur” in the end, but I’d rather not risk causing a minor fuss over it with someone who’s hung up about that sort of thing. Especially should she happen to have needles and scalpels at hand 😃 That depends on where you are, of course. Here I would call a female medical doctor “Docteur Guérin” or simply “Docteur”; I can’t think of any case where I’d use something like “Madame le docteur”. I’m not sure what the official answer is but I can check. “Ministre” and “président” are easy to feminize since they have an obvious feminine form. “Maire” presents the same problem as “docteur”, since the feminine form is longer and was, I believe, traditionally used to refer to the mayor’s wife and not to the female mayor. ---
**Author:** ![unclelem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ac91a4/32.png) [@unclelem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/unclelem)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-call-a-doctor-doctor/477531/19 "2008-12-17T16:30:55Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > And if previous threads on the subject are to be believed, do **not** call an English surgeon “Doctor”. Okay, if you do they’ll probably only correct you, but it seems that today they’re very proud of their title of “Mister”. Can someone please explain why this never happens in the TV show “Doc Martin”? He always corrects people that call him Doctor Martin, and tells them to call him Doctor Ellingham. Not Mister Ellingham. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [December 17, 2008, 4:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-call-a-doctor-doctor/477531/20 "2008-12-17T16:46:49Z")
Doc Martin is a GP, not a surgeon. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-call-a-doctor-doctor/477531.md?page=2)