# Why do we celebrate Christmas on Dec. 25? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [December 26, 2008, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-celebrate-christmas-on-dec-25/478719 "2008-12-26T10:26:57Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 13\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![GreenWyvern](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/greenwyvern/32/2834_2.png) [@GreenWyvern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GreenWyvern)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 10:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-celebrate-christmas-on-dec-25/478719/1 "2008-12-26T10:26:57Z")
This refers to the column > **[Why do we celebrate Christmas on Dec. 25?](https://www.straightdope.com/21341228/why-do-we-celebrate-christmas-on-dec-25)** > > A STAFF REPORT FROM THE STRAIGHT DOPE SCIENCE ADVISORY BOARD There is a pretty thorough discussion of this question in the Catholic Encyclopedia > **[CATHOLIC ENCYCLOPEDIA: Christmas](https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/03724b.htm)** > > Provides a detailed overview of the holiday from the fourth century through the modern age. Includes links to related topics Basically it comes to the same conclusion as Cecil, that "the most tenable hypothesis, Christ’s birthday was assigned to the winter solstice (December 25 in the Julian calendar, January 6 in the Egyptian) because the date had a ready-made pagan holiday, the “Birthday of the Invincible Sun”. In fact in AD 386 St John Chrysostom, a Christian bishop, says exactly that : “On this day also the Birthday of Christ was lately fixed at Rome in order that while the heathen were busy with their profane ceremonies, the Christians might perform their sacred rites undisturbed. They call this the Birthday of the Invincible One; but who is so invincible as the Lord? They call it the Birthday of the Solar Disk, but Christ is the Sun of Righteousness.” So basically Christmas was a made-up holiday. While everyone else was exchanging gifts and celebrating the birthday of the Invincible Sun, Christians also wanted to have their own holiday. ---
**Author:** ![Jragon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e19b73/32.png) [@Jragon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jragon)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 11:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-celebrate-christmas-on-dec-25/478719/2 "2008-12-26T11:00:44Z")
It also doesn’t hurt that having a holiday on the same day as the “outsiders” with callbacks to their own ceremonies makes your religion a little more familiar to them, and therefore easier for them to convert because “hey, their religion has this too, and you DON’T have to give up half your livestock and the village’s newborn baby to gain their god’s bounty!” ---
**Author:** ![ivan\_astikov](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/58f4c7/32.png) [@ivan\_astikov](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ivan_astikov)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 12:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-celebrate-christmas-on-dec-25/478719/3 "2008-12-26T12:43:15Z")
I believe that back in the days when the population consisted of just a few scattered tribes, during the winter months when everyone was fed up and starving, some mad old shaman used to gather up all the little wooden toys he had whittled throughout the year, then go sneaking round the villages, placing them outside every home, just for the craic, like. Go on, I dare ya to prove me wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-celebrate-christmas-on-dec-25/478719/4 "2008-12-26T16:34:43Z")
Fools! It’s been scientifically proven that the first Christmas was on December 25. > **[Homepage | CBN](https://cbn.com/)** > > The Christian Broadcasting Network is a global ministry committed to preparing the nations of the world for the coming of Jesus Christ through mass media and humanitarian outreach. > [@](#): > > That new moon marks the onset of Rosh Hashana - the Jewish New Year - the day God is said to have created the world. Larson says the evidence supports this day as the time when the Holy Spirit conceived Jesus. > > So is there another sign? > > “Nine months after that first conjunction – nine months – the gestation period of a human,” Larson said. “We see Jupiter and Venus come together to form the brightest star anyone had ever seen.” > > That’s mid-June of 2 B.C. - again near Regulus in Leo. > > “This is such an unusual conjunction that I can tell none of your viewers have ever seen such a conjunction because none have occurred in the 20th century. They’re that rare, extremely rare,” Larson said. > > This coin represents how impressive the star was - as the Romans placed the star in the upper left. Of course, the Romans thought it was all about them – a sort of Star of Rome rather than the Star of Bethlehem. And that’s probably what made the Magi ride toward Israel. > > Larson said, “So they ride to Israel’s capital, Jerusalem, and say to the ruler Herod, ‘We’ve seen his star in the East. Where’s the baby king?’ And he says, ‘Bethlehem.’” > > “As they’re riding out toward Bethlehem, they look up in the sky and there’s Jupiter, the king planet, over the little town of Bethlehem,” he said. “They ride down and find the baby boy, there are three gifts, they have the first Christmas.” > > The date: Dec. 25, 2 BC. Remember that Rick Larson is a law professor who used a computer astronomy program. So it has to be true! ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-celebrate-christmas-on-dec-25/478719/5 "2008-12-26T16:56:36Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Fools! It’s been scientifically proven that the first Christmas was on December 25. > > [http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/291039.aspx?option=print](http://www.cbn.com/CBNnews/291039.aspx?option=print) > Remember that Rick Larson is a law professor who used a computer astronomy program. So it has to be true! Actually, the argument this guy makes is Jesus was conceived late Sept (Rosh Hashanah), born late June, visited by Magi in late Dec. For years, I’ve held the Armstrongist theory of a Fall Festival Nativity, and therefore a late December conception. I’ve never followed the Armstrongs in their opposition to Christmas, however. However, John Crysostom said a lot more than the OP quotes. He holds that Zacharias was serving in the Temple and visited by Gabriel during the Fall Festivals (late Sept-early Oct). If he & Elizabeth conceived John soon after, then the Annunciation to Mary came six months later in late March-early April, and Jesus would have been born… late Dec-early Jan. I don’t find that to be an unreasonable possibility. Those two theories, out of all other possibilities, most appeal to me- so whether it be the time of the conception or the birth, I am glad to celebrate Christmas on Dec 25 ---
**Author:** ![John\_W.Kennedy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_w.kennedy/32/1031_2.png) [@John\_W.Kennedy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_W.Kennedy)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-celebrate-christmas-on-dec-25/478719/6 "2008-12-26T17:38:34Z")
> [@](#): > > The date: Dec. 25, 2 BC. Unfortunately, two years after the death of Herod the Great. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 26, 2008, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-celebrate-christmas-on-dec-25/478719/7 "2008-12-26T18:03:43Z")
> [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > Unfortunately, two years after the death of Herod the Great. Not necessarily. The dating of Herod’s death at 4 B.C. was based on mentions of a lunar eclipse at the time by Josephus. However, a similar eclipse occurred in 1 B.C./A.D. & that may well have been the one accompanying Herod’s death. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-celebrate-christmas-on-dec-25/478719/8 "2008-12-27T01:43:51Z")
> [@John\_W.Kennedy](#): > > Unfortunately, two years after the death of Herod the Great. Would that make it a _M_Y_S_T_E_R_Y_ or a _M_I_R_A_C_L_E_? ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 4:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-celebrate-christmas-on-dec-25/478719/9 "2008-12-27T04:03:02Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Actually, the argument this guy makes is Jesus was conceived late Sept (Rosh Hashanah), born late June, visited by Magi in late Dec. No, the argument he makes is that the first Christmas is the date the wise men visit the baby Jesus. So much is possible when you can make up the rules to fit your theories. > [@](#): > > Not necessarily. The dating of Herod’s death at 4 B.C. was based on mentions of a lunar eclipse at the time by Josephus. However, a similar eclipse occurred in 1 B.C./A.D. & that may well have been the one accompanying Herod’s death. What do you mean by this? 1 BC and 1 AD are quite separate years. Anyway, even believers argue for [other dates](http://www.biblicalchronology.com/herod.htm). No date or set of astronomical occurrences has ever been a consensus. I look at the arguments exactly as I do at Holmesiania: nobody ever made a reputation by agreeing with anything anybody else has ever said. The fun is making up your own set of plausible facts and weaving them together into a story. Except Holmesians appear to understand they’re writing fiction. ---
**Author:** ![bup](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/6bbea6/32.png) [@bup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bup)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 12:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-celebrate-christmas-on-dec-25/478719/10 "2008-12-27T12:34:35Z")
Cecil contends that the reason Jesus is considered by some to be a spring astrological sign is fitting personality to sign. The reason (and I get this from [Snopes’ discussion](http://www.snopes.com/holidays/christmas/jesus.asp)) is that, if we take any of the gospels’ Christmas story as grounded in fact, that the shepherds were out in the fields at night - that would most likely be in the spring, when lambs were being born. ---
**Author:** ![Karel\_Mars](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3ab097/32.png) [@Karel\_Mars](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Karel_Mars)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-celebrate-christmas-on-dec-25/478719/11 "2008-12-27T20:20:14Z")
I thought everyone knew Christmas’ date came from Mithraism? “Even the date of Christmas, December 25, was borrowed from another religion. At the time Christmas was created in AD 320, Mithraism was very popular. The early Christian church had gotten tired of their futile efforts to stop people celebrating the solstice and the birthday of Mithras, the Persian sun god. Mithras’ birthday was December 25. So the pope at the time decided to make Jesus’ official birthday coincide with Mithras’ birthday.” from [http://www.zenzibar.com/articles/christmas.asp](http://www.zenzibar.com/articles/christmas.asp) Do some research on Mithraism; it contributed more to Christianity than most people suspect. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-celebrate-christmas-on-dec-25/478719/12 "2008-12-27T23:13:25Z")
Yes, please do some research. > **[The Origin of Christmas](https://www.faithfreedom.org/oped/sina21224.htm)** > > The Christmas holidays were celebrated much earlier than the birth of Christ. > > It is a Mithraic festivity dating back more than 4000 years > [@](#): > > The New Schaff-Herzog Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge explains: > > “How much the date of the festival depended upon the pagan Brumalia (December 25th) following the Saturnalia (December 17th-24th), and celebrating the shortest day of the year and the ‘new sun’…cannot be accurately determined. The pagan Saturnalia and Brumalia were too deeply entrenched in popular custom to be set aside by Christian influence…The pagan festival with it’s riot and merrymaking was so popular that Christians were glad of an excuse to continue its celebration with little change in spirit and in manner. Christian preachers of the West and the Near East protested against the unseemly frivolity with which Christ’s birthday was celebrated, while Christians of Mesopotamia accused their western brethren of idolatry and sun worship for adopting as Christian this pagan festival” > > St Augustine says " we hold this (Christmas) day Holy, not like the pagans because of the Birth of the Sun, but because of the birth of him who made it (Christmas) day Holy, not like the pagans because of the Birth of the Sun, but because of the birth of him who made it" > > This clearly shows that this festivity was dedicated to the Birth of the Sun that was adopted by the Christians. No respectable historian denies the historical evolution of Christian customs from pagan religions and from such earlier beliefs as Mithraism. But a simplistic association between December 25 and Mithraism doesn’t fly. Nor does your [Christmas](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christmas) chronology. > [@](#): > > The New Testament does not give a date for the birth of Jesus. Around AD 200, Clement of Alexandria wrote that a group in Egypt celebrated the nativity on Pachon 25. This corresponds to May 20. Tertullian (d. 220) does not mention Christmas as a major feast day in the Church of Roman Africa. In Chronographai, a reference work published in 221, Sextus Julius Africanus suggested that Jesus was conceived on the spring equinox. The equinox was March 25 on the Roman calendar, so this implied a birth in December. De Pascha Computus, a calendar of feasts produced in 243, gives March 28 as the date of the nativity. In 245, the theologian Origen of Alexandria stated that, “only sinners (like Pharaoh and Herod)” celebrated their birthdays. In 303, Christian writer Arnobius ridiculed the idea of celebrating the birthdays of gods, which suggests that Christmas was not yet a feast at this time. > > The earliest reference to the celebration of the nativity on December 25 is found in the Chronography of 354, an illuminated manuscript compiled in Rome in 354. In the East, early Christians celebrated the birth of Christ as part of Epiphany (January 6), although this festival focused on the baptism of Jesus. > > Christmas was promoted in the Christian East as part of the revival of Catholicism following the death of the pro-Arian Emperor Valens at the Battle of Adrianople in 378. The feast was introduced to Constantinople in 379, and to Antioch in about 380. The feast disappeared after Gregory of Nazianzus resigned as bishop in 381, although it was reintroduced by John Chrysostom in about 400. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2008, 11:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-celebrate-christmas-on-dec-25/478719/13 "2008-12-27T23:45:53Z")
[QUOTE=bup] Cecil contends that the reason Jesus is considered by some to be a spring astrological sign is fitting personality to sign. [/QUOTE] I noticed this as well. Because the original question was posed in terms of astrological signs, Cecil assumes the poster thinks the meaning of the signs was important to the justification of the signs chosen. I think the poster used astrological signs as a shorthand for timeframe of the year, with Capricorn matching late December and Pisces and Leo corresponding to spring. But since I don’t follow astrology, I don’t even know if that is a correct assumption on my part.