# Why do we continue to be such a religious nation? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 4, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-continue-to-be-such-a-religious-nation/627228 "2012-07-04T17:54:11Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 5:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-continue-to-be-such-a-religious-nation/627228/1 "2012-07-04T17:54:11Z")
Polls consistently show that 96-97% of Americans continue to profess to believe in The Man in the Sky and the attendant mythology or variations thereof. Yet, in the liberal democracies of Western Europe–the societies that most closely resemble our own–:smack: damn, I forgot Canada–it’s so easy to forget Canada–religious belief is on the wane. What’s different about us? Why do we cling to the nonsense of god-ism? The answer is probably buried in the reasons why _individuals_ believe in religion, i.e., fear of death, fear of the unknown, wanting at least the illusion of control, providing explanations for difficult questions, social cohesion, and of course, religion as a meme. I just can’t parse out what it is about America that makes us so much more susceptible to this disease, especially since as worshippers at the altar of freedom (supposedly), we should be **hostile** to religion, which is the very antithesis of freedom. If you personally believe in The Man in the Sky or one of his many variants, your reply to this discussion probably won’t be constructive or worthwhile, as your answer would probably be along the lines of, “Because it’s all true and we Americans are smarter than everyone else.” Dubious assertions. ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-continue-to-be-such-a-religious-nation/627228/2 "2012-07-04T17:55:27Z")
96-97%? Really? ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-continue-to-be-such-a-religious-nation/627228/3 "2012-07-04T18:00:50Z")
I can’t find a recent poll saying “96 or 97%”, but here are a few fairly recent ones which show that 90+% of Americans believe in God: 2011 Gallup poll: 92% > **[More Than 9 in 10 Americans Continue to Believe in God](https://news.gallup.com/poll/147887/americans-continue-believe-god.aspx)** > > More than 9 in 10 Americans say "yes" when asked the basic question "Do you believe in God?"; this is down only slightly from the 1940s, when Gallup first asked this question. 2008 Pew poll: 92% > **[Most Americans Believe in Higher Power, Poll Finds - washingtonpost.com](https://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/06/23/ST2008062300818.html)** > > Most Americans believe that angels and demons are active in the world, and nearly 80 percent think miracles occur, according to a poll released yesterday that takes an in-depth look at Americans' religious beliefs. (Interestingly, this one says that 1 in 5 Americans who self-identifies as “atheist” still says that they believe in God!) ---
**Author:** ![stanleyr](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d2c977/32.png) [@stanleyr](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stanleyr)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-continue-to-be-such-a-religious-nation/627228/4 "2012-07-04T18:06:15Z")
A good start to ending religious beliefs was taking the “Pledge of Allegiance” out of schools because some atheist kids didn’t want any part of God in their life. We have godless TV and even more Atheists getting politically involved pushing their agendas in Washington. There are hosts of other reasons that I am afraid to voice due to possible retaliation. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-continue-to-be-such-a-religious-nation/627228/5 "2012-07-04T18:07:16Z")
Retaliation? ---
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-continue-to-be-such-a-religious-nation/627228/6 "2012-07-04T18:11:53Z")
> [@runner pat](#): > > Retaliation? _SMACK_ There, I just retaliated him. His fears were well-founded. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-continue-to-be-such-a-religious-nation/627228/7 "2012-07-04T18:13:21Z")
Some advice since you’re new here: If you’re going to start a bunch of threads on this forum, at least do some research first and bring some facts to the tables. Not just numbers you make up. And if you want reasoned debate, don’t [poison the well.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_the_well) As for your thesis, there has been a hypothesis that the US has traditionally had a much more competitive market for religions than Europe, where many countries have established religions. The US has also been a land to which religious refugees have flocked. European states were historically linked to the/a Church, and as the old regimes fell, the Church lost status as well. We were founded as a secular nation from the start, even if we might be surprised at how much religion was immeshed with governance in the early days of the Republic. ---
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-continue-to-be-such-a-religious-nation/627228/8 "2012-07-04T18:14:02Z")
> [@stanleyr](#): > > A good start to ending religious beliefs was taking the “Pledge of Allegiance” out of schools because some atheist kids didn’t want any part of God in their life. We have godless TV and even more Atheists getting politically involved pushing their agendas in Washington. There are hosts of other reasons that I am afraid to voice due to possible retaliation. This is the funniest thing I’ve read in a month. The Pledge of Allegiance is no longer recited in schools due to the subversive agitations of an army of godless atheist tykes. Sort of like an anti-Children’s Crusade. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-continue-to-be-such-a-religious-nation/627228/9 "2012-07-04T18:17:01Z")
> [@stanleyr](#): > > A good start to ending religious beliefs was taking the “Pledge of Allegiance” out of schools because some atheist kids didn’t want any part of God in their life. So before 1954 we were less religious than we were after? ---
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-continue-to-be-such-a-religious-nation/627228/10 "2012-07-04T18:20:39Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Some advice since you’re new here: If you’re going to start a bunch of threads on this forum, at least do some research first and bring some facts to the tables. Not just numbers you make up. And if you want reasoned debate, don’t [poison the well.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poison_the_well) > > As for your thesis, there has been a hypothesis that the US has traditionally had a much more competitive market for religions than Europe, where many countries have established religions. The US has also been a land to which religious refugees have flocked. > > European states were historically linked to the/a Church, and as the old regimes fell, the Church lost status as well. We were founded as a secular nation from the start, even if we might be surprised at how much religion was immeshed with governance in the early days of the Republic. Some advice since you’re old here: Your first paragraph contained ranting. Your two subsequent paragraphs attempted to answer my question. “LET’S SEE SOME FACTS GOLDURNIT” is almost an internet cliche. The fact that America is a more religious nation than any of the other Western secular democracies is beyond dispute, but if you don’t accept that, then there’s no point in any further discussion. Your first actual point, though, was well made, though your second point would seem to indicate that we should have evolved into a highly secular nation. As much as my “insulting your beliefs” must have upset you, it would be best if you confined your discourse to an actual analysis of the question I asked; since you’re old here, you must know that. Though I already said that Believers probably shouldn’t even bother to respond to this thread. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-continue-to-be-such-a-religious-nation/627228/11 "2012-07-04T18:24:46Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > Some advice since you’re old here: Your first paragraph contained ranting. Your two subsequent paragraphs attempted to answer my question. “LET’S SEE SOME FACTS GOLDURNIT” is almost an internet cliche. The fact that America is a more religious nation than any of the other Western secular democracies is beyond dispute, but if you don’t accept that, then there’s no point in any further discussion. Your first actual point, though, was well made, though your second point would seem to indicate that we should have evolved into a highly secular nation. > > As much as my “insulting your beliefs” must have upset you, it would be best if you confined your discourse to an actual analysis of the question I asked; since you’re old here, you must know that. Though I already said that Believers probably shouldn’t even bother to respond to this thread. Please don’t be on my side. The image of atheists is bad enough already without having the equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church weighing in. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-continue-to-be-such-a-religious-nation/627228/12 "2012-07-04T18:29:27Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > As much as my “insulting your beliefs” must have upset you, it would be best if you confined your discourse to an actual analysis of the question I asked; since you’re old here, you must know that. Though I already said that Believers probably shouldn’t even bother to respond to this thread. So it’s your impression that **John Mace** is a religious believer? Good luck with that. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-continue-to-be-such-a-religious-nation/627228/13 "2012-07-04T18:37:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > So it’s your impression that **John Mace** is a religious believer? > > Good luck with that. > > Regards, > Shodan Yes, it’s my impression, from the “LET"S US HAVE US HERE SOME FACTS” rant that preceded the more thoughtful portion of his post. As it’s only an impression, it could easily be wrong. He didn’t say one way or the other, but his emotional reactions led me to the hypothesis that he was a Believer. ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-continue-to-be-such-a-religious-nation/627228/14 "2012-07-04T18:37:43Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > Some advice since you’re old here: Your first paragraph contained ranting. Nope. Advice. Take it or leave it. > [@](#): > > Your two subsequent paragraphs attempted to answer my question. “LET’S SEE SOME FACTS GOLDURNIT” is almost an internet cliche. It’s SOP here. You’re not going to change that. > [@](#): > > The fact that America is a more religious nation than any of the other Western secular democracies is beyond dispute, but if you don’t accept that, then there’s no point in any further discussion. It’s certainly true, so there is no reason to make up “facts” in support of it. There are actual facts out there aplenty. > [@](#): > > Your first actual point, though, was well made, though your second point would seem to indicate that we should have evolved into a highly secular nation. Not really. The Churches are seen as institutions separate and apart from the state. That is not historically the case in Europe. > [@](#): > > As much as my “insulting your beliefs” must have upset you, it would be best if you confined your discourse to an actual analysis of the question I asked; since you’re old here, you must know that. Though I already said that Believers probably shouldn’t even bother to respond to this thread. I’m an atheist. I just don’t go around insulting religious people as a matter of course. ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-continue-to-be-such-a-religious-nation/627228/15 "2012-07-04T18:38:07Z")
> [@stanleyr](#): > > A good start to ending religious beliefs was taking the “Pledge of Allegiance” out of schools because some atheist kids didn’t want any part of God in their life. We have godless TV and even more Atheists getting politically involved pushing their agendas in Washington. There are hosts of other reasons that I am afraid to voice due to possible retaliation. You are aware, aren’t you, that the Pledge of Allegiance was not taken out of schools, and that the ‘under God’ part, was added? ---
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-continue-to-be-such-a-religious-nation/627228/16 "2012-07-04T18:42:50Z")
> [@fumster](#): > > Please don’t be on my side. The image of atheists is bad enough already without having the equivalent of the Westboro Baptist Church weighing in. I gather that you are objecting to my tone. I was not attempting to establish a debate about the relative merits of Belief and atheism. I was attempting to ask why Belief is so rampant in this country, especially given some of our professed social values. I suspect that the negative image of atheists stems from their exasperation due to the great reluctance of Believers (or anyone else, for that matter) to engage in any debate about religion from a logical standpoint. Instead, we get nonsense about the Pledge of Allegiance, etc. In any case, John Mace is the only one so far to have even attempted to answer my question—what is the causal basis for our extremely high percentage of professed Believers? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-continue-to-be-such-a-religious-nation/627228/17 "2012-07-04T18:43:58Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > much as my “insulting your beliefs” must have upset you, it would be best if you confined your discourse to an actual analysis of the question I asked; since you’re old here, you must know that. Though I already said that Believers probably shouldn’t even bother to respond to this thread. The only belief of John Mace’s that you have apparently insulted is the one that we attract posters of superior debating skills. Your claim for religiosity, while more or less correct, was backed up by a false claim. You then poisoned the well of this thread by indicating that you are not going to believe that anyone with any intelligence would hold a different opinion than you hold and further made a comment that was a straw man argument (since it is unlikely that anyone in this board would argue in the silly way that you pretended). So, basically, you have posted a rant, one that belongs in The BBQ Pit, pretending that you want a discussion that you seem to not to actually want to have, since you have already insulted half the possible participants while attrributing to them something silly that they would never say. I would suggest that you heed the advice of other posters rather than pretending that you have a clue on how to get along on this board. ---
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-continue-to-be-such-a-religious-nation/627228/18 "2012-07-04T18:49:04Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > I’m an atheist. I just don’t go around insulting religious people as a matter of course. Nor do I. However, I feel perfectly free to “insult” any and all absurd ideas and ideologies. This is a distinction that many, many, many people fail to understand. In attacking a (presumably flawed) idea and/or system of thought, one is _not_ also attacking anyone who subscribes to such an idea. The reactions to such illusory “attacks” refer to a particular type of cognitive bias where one defends one’s own ideas not on their merits, but simply because those ideas are one’s own. This can be seen in the phrase, to “adopt” an idea; one literally nurtures and bonds with it. This is one of many reasons why religious mythology is so pervasive. I apologize for insulting you by implying that you were a Believer. ---
**Author:** ![fumster](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e9c0ed/32.png) [@fumster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fumster)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-continue-to-be-such-a-religious-nation/627228/19 "2012-07-04T18:51:48Z")
> [@greenslime1951](#): > > Nor do I. However, I feel perfectly free to “insult” any and all absurd ideas and ideologies. And there is place to do that called the BBQ Pit. Knock yourself out. ---
**Author:** ![greenslime1951](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e9bcb4/32.png) [@greenslime1951](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/greenslime1951)\ **Post date:** [July 4, 2012, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-continue-to-be-such-a-religious-nation/627228/20 "2012-07-04T18:55:30Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > The only belief of John Mace’s that you have apparently insulted is the one that we attract posters of superior debating skills. > > Your claim for religiosity, while more or less correct, was backed up by a false claim. > You then poisoned the well of this thread by indicating that you are not going to believe that anyone with any intelligence would hold a different opinion than you hold and further made a comment that was a straw man argument (since it is unlikely that anyone in this board would argue in the silly way that you pretended). > > So, basically, you have posted a rant, one that belongs in The BBQ Pit, pretending that you want a discussion that you seem to not to actually want to have, since you have already insulted half the possible participants while attrributing to them something silly that they would never say. > > I would suggest that you heed the advice of other posters rather than pretending that you have a clue on how to get along on this board. Yes, yes, yes. Anything on an internet board that you don’t agree with is a “rant.” I “poisoned the well” by saying that those who “hold a different opinion than (you) hold” are excluded from the discussion. Tired, tired internet tropes, and not even remotely true, SINCE: I never offered an opinion as to why religion is so rampant in this country. I did try to exclude Believers from the debate since, AS TURNED OUT TO BE TRUE, said debate would likely veer off into an argument about the merits of religion. If you, rather than “ranting,” would like to attempt to actually answer my question (rather than scolding me about how I post), that would be quite welcome. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-continue-to-be-such-a-religious-nation/627228.md?page=2)