# Why do we even pretend they have a civilization???
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-even-pretend-they-have-a-civilization/200828
**Category:** The BBQ Pit
**Created:** [September 10, 2003, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-even-pretend-they-have-a-civilization/200828 "2003-09-10T19:40:16Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 2
### Author:  [@Francesca](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Francesca)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2003, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-even-pretend-they-have-a-civilization/200828/21 "2003-09-10T22:19:39Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by gobear \*
> \*\*Of copurse, if I had written the OP, a crowd of outraged dopers would be calling for my head. But this they let pass. \*\*
Oh don’t be so ridiculous gobear. You’re the 15th poster in this thread and you’re whinging that this idiot is getting better treatment than you would. He’s hardly getting a round of applause. It’s not all about you.
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### Author:  [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2003, 10:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-even-pretend-they-have-a-civilization/200828/22 "2003-09-10T22:21:22Z")
But you’ve blown right by the most puzzling part – Barbie is _Jewish_? This I did not know. IIRC, she has some ridiculously WASPy last name by which she cunningly hides her ethnicity. What makes them think she’s Jewish – are the women Jews in the Middle East all six and a half feet tall with 16 inch waists?
Boy, those mullahs must _really_ be religious scholars to so perceptively determine the faith of a plastic toy. :rolleyes:
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### Author:  [@Jodi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jodi)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2003, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-even-pretend-they-have-a-civilization/200828/23 "2003-09-10T22:24:24Z")
> [@](#):
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> A country that has actual “religious police” is not civilized.
You and I must have different dictionaries.
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### Author:  [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2003, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-even-pretend-they-have-a-civilization/200828/24 "2003-09-10T22:50:07Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Francesca \*
> \*\*Oh don’t be so ridiculous gobear. You’re the 15th poster in this thread and you’re whinging that this idiot is getting better treatment than you would. He’s hardly getting a round of applause. It’s not all about you. \*\*
Call me ridiculous all you want, the fact remains that I get called names for innocuous posts, but an OP that slams an entire nation just get good-natured teasing.
Just an observation.
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### Author:  [@chattywine](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/chattywine)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2003, 10:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-even-pretend-they-have-a-civilization/200828/25 "2003-09-10T22:50:58Z")
Ruth Handler who created Barbie and is co-founder of Mattel is Jewish, perhaps that is to what they are referring.
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### Author:  [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2003, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-even-pretend-they-have-a-civilization/200828/26 "2003-09-10T22:54:11Z")
teasing??? we have a different concept of teasing.
this is more “mocking” than teasing.
as for how hard of a time you got - look at it this way:
I **mock** Fred Phelps
I argue w/, debate w/, try and make an impression on people I think have a brain. (for the most part)
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### Author:  [@Yumanite](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yumanite)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2003, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-even-pretend-they-have-a-civilization/200828/27 "2003-09-10T22:57:24Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by gobear \*
> \*\*Call me ridiculous all you want, the fact remains that I get called names for innocuous posts, but an OP that slams an entire nation just get good-natured teasing.
>
> Just an observation. \*\*
Well, maybe it’s because people **expect** more from you, seeing as you have at least half a brain. You may say things which are highly arguable, but they aren’t usually _stupid_. So kwitcherbitchin already.
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### Author:  [@Morrigoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morrigoon)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2003, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-even-pretend-they-have-a-civilization/200828/28 "2003-09-10T23:08:58Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by wring \*
> \*\*well **that** explains all of the mass murders in Vatican CIty. \*\*
… should I bring up the pedophilia? Nah…
I do think saying it leads to mass murders is oversimplifying, but it’s fair to say it leads to a strong tendency toward abuses of the system. Taliban, Salem Witch Hunts, Inquisition…
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### Author:  [@wring](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wring)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2003, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-even-pretend-they-have-a-civilization/200828/29 "2003-09-10T23:13:55Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Morrigoon \*
> \*\*I do think saying it leads to mass murders is oversimplifying, but it’s fair to say it leads to a strong tendency toward abuses of the system. Taliban, Salem Witch Hunts, Inquisition… \*\*
cause/effect - I can also name any number of despots that had nothing to do with religion.
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### Author:  [@Morrigoon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morrigoon)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2003, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-even-pretend-they-have-a-civilization/200828/30 "2003-09-10T23:18:48Z")
true true.
I’m not actually supporting the OP’s assertion, but I just couldn’t resist pointing that out.
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### Author:  [@Rabid\_Squirrel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rabid_Squirrel)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2003, 11:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-even-pretend-they-have-a-civilization/200828/31 "2003-09-10T23:30:13Z")
Regarding the original OP:
See, this is what we like to call _diff-er-ent cult-ures_…:rolleyes:
Not that I condone other aspects of Middle Eastern culture through Western standards, but if they want to ban Barbies that’s fair enough.
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### Author:  [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)
#### Post date: [September 10, 2003, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-even-pretend-they-have-a-civilization/200828/32 "2003-09-10T23:32:13Z")
Maybe dogface has some financial interests in Mattel?
By the way: Isn’t the “country without civilisation” the Great Friend and Ally of that other country…
…
Salaam. A
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### Author:  [@Black\_Train\_Song](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Black_Train_Song)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2003, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-even-pretend-they-have-a-civilization/200828/33 "2003-09-11T00:03:42Z")
What if it were a “muslim barbie” or mabye “suicide bomber barbie (bomb vest sold seperately)”?
It’s all in the marketing.
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### Author:  [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2003, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-even-pretend-they-have-a-civilization/200828/34 "2003-09-11T00:22:32Z")
Actually there is already a “muslim” duplicate of the barbie doll for some time. I think already more then a year.
But no suicide bomber barbie… Thank you for the hint. Shall think about bringing it in production to sell it on the US market.
By the way: Is there already a “shock and awe” -hero barbie saying “you ain’t seen nothing yet” with on his helmet KILL KILL KILL and a Bible in his pocket?
(I got the inspiration for this question from a picture of one of those heros in Iraq.)
Salaam. A
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### Author:  [@manhattan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/manhattan)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2003, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-even-pretend-they-have-a-civilization/200828/35 "2003-09-11T00:32:16Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Jodi \*
> \*\*But you’ve blown right by the most puzzling part – Barbie is _Jewish_? \*\*
Hah! And my mom grounded me when I shaved my sister’s Barbie’s head. I was just trying to bring her back to Orthodoxy, and I want those hours in my room back!
And Ken should sue his Mohel.
> [@](#):
>
> What makes them think she’s Jewish – are the women Jews in the Middle East all six and a half feet tall with 16 inch waists?
::Checks Travelocity for fares to Tel Aviv whilst awaiting an answer…:: \*\*
[/QUOTE]
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### Author:  [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2003, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-even-pretend-they-have-a-civilization/200828/36 "2003-09-11T01:05:34Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Muad’Dib \*
> \*\*Lord I am tired of people bringing that up. I am no fan of Falwell but the man is not the one that started that gay teletubby thing. I remember reading an article in Newsweek before the show started airing here, and more than a year before Falwells comments that talked about how Tinky Winky had become a sort of gay icon in the English homosexual community. \*\*
Well…that is all true, but that doesn’t make it any less an example of Christian Right idiocy. Various ADULT homosexuals took up Tinky as an icon because of the purple and the purse and the triangle.
The Falwell people (i’m aware he didn’t actually write the article) took this as an indication that…what? That he was intended to influence young minds on the subject of homosexuality?? That the color purple and a triangle are not political signifiers that adults might associtate with the gay rights movement but rather something somehow inherently gay and something children should be protected from??? That Tinky Winky WAS actualy gay???
Sorry, still stupid, and still worth bringing up.
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### Author:  [@betenoir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/betenoir)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2003, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-even-pretend-they-have-a-civilization/200828/37 "2003-09-11T01:15:55Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Dogface \*
> \*\*
>
> A country that has actual “religious police” is not civilized. \*\*
It’s not that I don’t agree with you basic sentiment, Dog, but…I do not believe that word means what you think it means…
In fact i would venture to say it is only civilized countries that have religious police. And let up pause for a moment and count the times religious police have figured into Western Civilization.
What you mean I think is that they don’t come up to the particular standards of civilization set by the Enlightenment, the ones this country was founded on, and the ones I hope Bush and Ascroft won’t do too much damage too before they’re through with us.
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### Author:  [@Krisfer\_the\_Cat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Krisfer_the_Cat)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2003, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-even-pretend-they-have-a-civilization/200828/38 "2003-09-11T01:56:17Z")
As a formerly fat teenager with floppy boobs and freckles and chunky thighs don’t expect me to get upset over banning Barbie.
And I hardly think civilization is defined by children’s toys.
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### Author:  [@Muad\_Dib](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muad_Dib)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2003, 2:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-even-pretend-they-have-a-civilization/200828/39 "2003-09-11T02:47:25Z")
> [@](#):
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> \*Originally posted by Dissonance \*
> \*\*I hear ya. [Dem fucking savages](http://www.artsreformation.com/a001/hays-code.html)Oh, hang on a second, that’s the Hollywood Hays Code from the 1930s…
> :eek: \*\*
Hays Code was something that the studios enforced on themselves. The government had nothing to do with it.
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### Author:  [@Dissonance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dissonance)
#### Post date: [September 11, 2003, 3:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-even-pretend-they-have-a-civilization/200828/40 "2003-09-11T03:10:03Z")
> [@](#):
>
> \*Originally posted by Muad’Dib \*
> \*\*Hays Code was something that the studios enforced on themselves. The government had nothing to do with it. \*\*
I sort of expected this to come up. Yes, you are entirely correct that the Hays Code was ‘voluntary.’ On the other hand, how many movies that defied the Hays Code of morality reached general release when it was in force? I dare say that the vast majority of current theatrical releases would never have reached production due to fear of the Hays Code if it were still in effect.
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