# Why do we flat out reject CT's? \[Conspiracy Theories\] **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [June 2, 2012, 3:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-flat-out-reject-cts-conspiracy-theories/623841 "2012-06-02T03:24:38Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 13
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-flat-out-reject-cts-conspiracy-theories/623841/241 "2012-06-14T03:33:06Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > The Britannica article mentions cells of Illuminati and the Slate article mentions cells. So… … Witches! Burn them!!.. Oh, sorry, that is Monty Python logic. 🙂 But more seriously, what you have there is similar to some current witchcraft religions, there is really no connection to the ancient witches, what you have there is groups that have a religion that actually developed in England in the first half of the 20th century. Whatever connections they have with ancient rites or designs is based on dubious reconstructions and speculation. Regardless, they are really mostly harmless nowadays and like the “cells” that you mention, it does not follow that they are following the grand designs of the past, they are just attempting with poor results to follow ideas that had validity in the past, but as others have pointed out: not even that, they have other priorities or ideas unrelated to the groups from the past. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 3:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-flat-out-reject-cts-conspiracy-theories/623841/242 "2012-06-14T03:37:12Z")
[Here’s](http://stopsyjonizmowi.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/bilderberg.jpg) a chart for all the conspiracy minded among us… it’s a diagram of all the connections behind the Bilderberg Group. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 3:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-flat-out-reject-cts-conspiracy-theories/623841/243 "2012-06-14T03:51:23Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > You have a different reference, (still conveniently quoted out of context), that notes that the Illuminati was one of several different groups that was promoting democracy and republicanism–the opposite of cabals or rulers. Because you cannot have a conspiracy when you have governments. :rolleyes: > [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > There are a number of events out there that I think prove that the US govt had manipulated events for its own good > [@Kozmik](#): > > There are a number of events out there that I think prove that the Illuminati had manipulated _governments_ for its own ends. Who manipulates the Illuminati? ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 3:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-flat-out-reject-cts-conspiracy-theories/623841/244 "2012-06-14T03:55:52Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Because you cannot have a conspiracy when you have governments. :rolleyes: > > Who manipulates the Illuminati? David Icke No, really, what I mean is that there are many that are keeping that theory up for their own gain, world designs are concentrated on convincing others to part with their money to read their new books on the conspiracy or see their presentations. > **[illuminati - The Skeptic's Dictionary - Skepdic.com](https://www.skepdic.com/illuminati.html)** ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 4:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-flat-out-reject-cts-conspiracy-theories/623841/245 "2012-06-14T04:29:58Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Who manipulates the Illuminati? Chiropractors. ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-flat-out-reject-cts-conspiracy-theories/623841/246 "2012-06-14T04:59:07Z")
> [@GIGObuster](#): > > David Icke > > No, really, what I mean is that there are many that are keeping that theory up for their own gain, world designs are concentrated on convincing others to part with their money to read their new books on the conspiracy or see their presentations. So what you’re saying is we need a modern day Thomas Paine? ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 5:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-flat-out-reject-cts-conspiracy-theories/623841/247 "2012-06-14T05:19:59Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Because you cannot have a conspiracy when you have governments. :rolleyes: I hope you were rolling your eyes because you realize how silly you have been looking. “Having governments” was not the issue. I’ll type slowly: You found a citation that said that the Illuminati were one of several groups promoting (or demanding) that governments be more democratic or republican. Both forms of government require the participation of the people. You then claim that that is evidence that the same groups still exist in a cabal to govern the entire world, themselves, in a way that is neither democratic nor republican. So your evidence that there is a cabal attempting to run the world, today, is that a group 200 years ago wanted more democratic governance. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-flat-out-reject-cts-conspiracy-theories/623841/248 "2012-06-14T05:20:32Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > So what you’re saying is we need a modern day Thomas Paine? Nah. He was probably an Illuminatus. ---
**Author:** ![Robot\_Arm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robot_arm/32/18280_2.png) [@Robot\_Arm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Robot_Arm)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-flat-out-reject-cts-conspiracy-theories/623841/249 "2012-06-14T08:00:52Z")
> [@JohnT](#): > > [Here’s](http://stopsyjonizmowi.files.wordpress.com/2012/03/bilderberg.jpg) a chart for all the conspiracy minded among us… it’s a diagram of all the connections behind the Bilderberg Group. 😃 Is it still a conspiracy if everybody on the planet is in on it? Except me. ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 11:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-flat-out-reject-cts-conspiracy-theories/623841/250 "2012-06-14T11:22:25Z")
> [@Robot\_Arm](#): > > Is it still a conspiracy if everybody on the planet is in on it? > > Except me. Ha! You would say that if you are a member of the conspiracy… ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-flat-out-reject-cts-conspiracy-theories/623841/251 "2012-06-14T11:47:29Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > In the 1994 Encyclopaedia Britannica, there are two cites for Illuminati. > > In volume 22, page 226: > > In volume 26, page 891: > > There you have it. The Illuminati was established in Bavaria by Adam Weishaupt and then there were cells formed in Milan, Bologna, Rome, and Naples. > > [Here](http://www.slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/explainer/2001/09/how_do_terrorist_cells_work.html) is a Slate article on cells. Oh come on, this is the biggest leap of illogic I’ve seen for many a year. Others have already tried but I’ll have one more go. What it boils down to is that you are saying: The Illuminati were founded in Bavaria in the late 18th century and an encyclopedia uses the word “cells” to describe the branches set up in other cities. Revolutionary/terrorist organisation have since the late 19th century split themselves into small groups know as “cells” to avoid penetration by security forces. Therefore the Illuminati continue to exist and manipulate governments. How on eath does the conclusion come out of the premises? ---
**Author:** ![FixMyIgnorance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7feea3/32.png) [@FixMyIgnorance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FixMyIgnorance)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 1:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-flat-out-reject-cts-conspiracy-theories/623841/252 "2012-06-14T13:05:37Z")
Batman: Pretty fishy what happened to me on that ladder. Gordon: You mean, where there’s a fish, there could be a Penguin. Robin: But wait! It happened at sea! See? “C” for Catwoman! Batman: Yet — that exploding shark was pulling my leg! Gordon: The Joker! O’Hara: It all adds up to a sinister riddle… Riddle-er. Riddler? — Batman: The Movie > **[Bat Deduction - TV Tropes](https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/BatDeduction)** > > When unraveling a mystery or trying to push the plot along, a character may come to an affirmative conclusion through even though the rationale behind it feels like a mental Wiki Walk that has little basis in the information as presented. This … ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-flat-out-reject-cts-conspiracy-theories/623841/253 "2012-06-14T15:14:13Z")
_It’s tragic magic There are no coincidences But sometimes the pattern is more obvious_ “Keynsham” - the Bonzo Dog Band ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [June 14, 2012, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-flat-out-reject-cts-conspiracy-theories/623841/254 "2012-06-14T15:32:36Z")
Heh, I love that term of “Bat Deduction” **Commissioner Gordon** [after that exchange with Batman and Robin from **FixMyIgnorance**]: “The sum of the angles of that rectangle [of evil] is too monstrous to contemplate!” ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-flat-out-reject-cts-conspiracy-theories/623841/255 "2012-06-15T16:42:53Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > You then claim that that is evidence that the same groups still exist in a cabal to govern the entire world, themselves, in a way that is neither democratic nor republican. **Stink Fish Pot** wrote: > [@Stink Fish Pot](#): > > There are a number of events out there that I think prove that the US govt had manipulated events for its own good I wrote: > [@Kozmik](#): > > There are a number of events out there that I think prove that the Illuminati had manipulated _governments_ for its own ends. Control the governments of the world and control the world. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-flat-out-reject-cts-conspiracy-theories/623841/256 "2012-06-15T16:45:06Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Control the governments of the world and control the world. Except there’s no evidence of that happening - particularly not by a group that was stamped out 200 years ago. Are you going to pony up at some point, or are you going to continue to insist these kinds of absurdities are “possible?” ---
**Author:** ![Kozmik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8dc957/32.png) [@Kozmik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kozmik)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-flat-out-reject-cts-conspiracy-theories/623841/257 "2012-06-15T17:01:58Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > are you going to continue to insist these kinds of absurdities are “possible?” Yes, because you claim this: > [@Marley23](#): > > Whether it existed in secret after 1785 is another one and I think the answer to that is also no, although I think it was revived briefly a few decades later. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 5:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-flat-out-reject-cts-conspiracy-theories/623841/258 "2012-06-15T17:14:58Z")
> [@Kozmik](#): > > Yes, because you claim this: I’m getting tired of the incomplete answers to questions nobody was asking, and I probably should have given up on this deliberately vague nudge-nudging several pages ago. I’m going to ask one more time before I quit: what is your _specific_evidence that the _specific_ Illuminati existed after 1785 and that the NWO exists and that the two things are connected? ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 5:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-flat-out-reject-cts-conspiracy-theories/623841/259 "2012-06-15T17:23:06Z")
Hey Marley…why DO we flat out reject CT’s?? 😛 -XT ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2012, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-flat-out-reject-cts-conspiracy-theories/623841/260 "2012-06-15T17:36:14Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Hey Marley…why DO we flat out reject CT’s?? 😛 > > -XT Becauses all the smoke and mirrors seen by the followers of Conspiracy Theory seems to be there to hide the fact that there are no smoke and mirrors. Every once in a while they do cry out that the emperor has no clothes, but only when everyone else can see that the emperor is actually naked as a jaybird and sitting in a bath. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-flat-out-reject-cts-conspiracy-theories/623841.md?page=12) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-flat-out-reject-cts-conspiracy-theories/623841.md?page=14)