# Why do we have stop signs? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 27, 2010, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-stop-signs/548211 "2010-07-27T18:34:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Enuma\_Elish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5e9695/32.png) [@Enuma\_Elish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enuma_Elish)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-stop-signs/548211/21 "2010-07-27T20:00:13Z")
Many stoplights still turn into blinking lights at a certain time of night in Green Bay. I think the rationale is: ‘Why bother with a full stop and waiting for a light when the traffic is no longer heavy?’ ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-stop-signs/548211/22 "2010-07-27T20:00:35Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > WTH? > > Is that even legal there? I can understand the local authorities not giving a crap and not having any signs. But to legally not have something at every intersection just boggles my mind. Believe me, I spent the first two years or so here just in a constant state of outrage. People here seem to accept it. [http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattle911/archives/161914.asp](http://blog.seattlepi.com/seattle911/archives/161914.asp) > [@](#): > > **Sparke 240:** I find this hard to believe, unless you mean intersections where one street is clearly subordinate to the other. It is hard to believe. And I’m talking about two apparently equal streets. ---
**Author:** ![Ferret\_Herder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e47774/32.png) [@Ferret\_Herder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ferret_Herder)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-stop-signs/548211/23 "2010-07-27T20:04:10Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Is that even legal there? I can understand the local authorities not giving a crap and not having any signs. But to legally not have something at every intersection just boggles my mind. I grew up in a small city in Wisconsin which had a small number of uncontrolled intersections. They’re legal, even covered in the “rules of the road” code and everything. When you went in for a road test, the tester directed you along a route that included at least one uncontrolled intersection. (And yes, I nearly failed because I wasn’t expecting to encounter one of those. :smack: ) ---
**Author:** ![RedSwinglineOne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/a9adbd/32.png) [@RedSwinglineOne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RedSwinglineOne)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-stop-signs/548211/24 "2010-07-27T20:07:49Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > Couldn’t all stop signs (or maybe 95%) be replaced with yield signs? I would think that the amount of gasoline conserved would be staggering. > > I just can’t think of any logical or compelling reason that I should have to stop at an intersection if there is no traffic coming. You can’t simply replace stop signs with yield signs. A yield sign means you are yielding the right of way to the other driver, who does not need to stop. Both/all drivers cannot yield. If you have a 4 way yield, which driver yields? If two cars collide in an intersection, whose fault would it be? ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-stop-signs/548211/25 "2010-07-27T20:09:55Z")
California has a lot of intersections with no controls. They are usually buried within residential or business districts. The speed limit for “blind intersections” is 15 MPH. Some cities also have yield signs where you would normally see stop signs. [San Diego](http://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&q=san+diego,+ca&ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=San+Diego,+California&gl=us&ei=KTxPTJrZAoOosQPjgt2PBw&ved=0CCYQ8gEwAA&ll=32.766588,-117.187707&spn=0.000727,0.001373&t=k&z=20) ---
**Author:** ![J-P\_L](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/j-p_l/32/3156_2.png) [@J-P\_L](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/J-P_L)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-stop-signs/548211/26 "2010-07-27T20:11:55Z")
Given the number of collisions that happen every day (notice that I said collisions NOT accidents), we have to assume that a number of those collisions are due to drivers not stopping at intersections, now replace those STOP signs with YIELD signs and imagine the outcome. I wouldn’t want to be on the road. ---
**Author:** ![hogarth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hogarth/32/1773_2.png) [@hogarth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hogarth)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-stop-signs/548211/27 "2010-07-27T20:17:10Z")
> [@billfish678](#): > > Is that even legal there? I can understand the local authorities not giving a crap and not having any signs. But to legally not have something at every intersection just boggles my mind. It boggles my mind that it boggles your mind. In residential areas in the parts of Canada I’ve lived in, uncontrolled intersections are the norm. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-stop-signs/548211/28 "2010-07-27T20:20:24Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > > [@Joey\_P](#): > > > > I hate yield signs. They might save gas, but I think there would be a lot more accidents. > > Maybe at first but I think that people would quickly catch on that they’d better look both ways at the intersection if they have the yield sign. Haw. Near me there are some intersections with right turn on red after stop, and some with right turn with a yield sign. At the former intersections drivers pretend to stop before they pull out in front of me, in the latter they don’t even try to look. ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-stop-signs/548211/29 "2010-07-27T20:21:12Z")
Here in South Korea, stop signs and even red lights are routinely ignored by drivers. If you stop at a red light before making a right turn, you are likely to get rear-ended by another driver. Essentially, this is a country without stop signs and the accident rate is quite high. ---
**Author:** ![Bearflag70](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Bearflag70](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bearflag70)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-stop-signs/548211/30 "2010-07-27T20:22:41Z")
There was an uncontrolled residential T intersection where people would drive very quickly into it. I wanted people to slow down there because it was an accident waiting to happen. I asked the city to install a yield sign at the T intersection where drivers coming up the base of the T would yield to drivers driving across the top of the T. Confused, the city engineer on the phone asked me who would the drivers be yielding to. I replied the drivers coming up the T would yield to drivers coming across the across the T. He asked why I would ask for a yield sign instead of a stop sign. I told him I don’t think it’s necessary for drivers to come to a complete stop if they can slow, see that there is no cross-traffic, and proceed safely. Stop signs force a complete stop when it’s not necessary. I just want people to be aware and to slow down. I told him there were similar intersections in the area that had yield signs instead of stop signs. He said that is basically old school and they don’t do that kind of thing anymore. A few days later, the city installed a stop sign there instead of a yield sign. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-stop-signs/548211/31 "2010-07-27T20:24:52Z")
> [@kenobi\_65](#): > > They seem to be all the rage with American traffic engineers now, but, IME, too few American drivers know how to handle them yet. I’ve been in any number of close-calls with drivers who cannot figure out how to navigate a traffic circle (particularly those who don’t get the concept of, “YIELD to the traffic coming from your left, you idiot!”) There was one near where I lived in NJ. There the rule seems to be that local customs apply. It was seldom clear if traffic on a major street yielded to traffic in the circle or vice versa - which explained the many accidents there. In the second Judy Blume Fudge book there is a scene at a traffic circle on Route 1 in Princeton, just down the street from where I used to live. By the time I got there it was a traditional jug handle, but the traffic must have been horrendous when it was a circle. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-stop-signs/548211/32 "2010-07-27T20:26:48Z")
> [@Ferret\_Herder](#): > > > [@billfish678](#): > > > > Is that even legal there? I can understand the local authorities not giving a crap and not having any signs. But to legally not have something at every intersection just boggles my mind. > > I grew up in a small city in Wisconsin which had a small number of uncontrolled intersections. They’re legal, even covered in the “rules of the road” code and everything. When you went in for a road test, the tester directed you along a route that included at least one uncontrolled intersection. > > (And yes, I nearly failed because I wasn’t expecting to encounter one of those. :smack: ) Yep, [Illinois, too](http://www.cyberdriveillinois.com/publications/rules_of_the_road/rr_chap04.html): > [@](#): > > Right-of-way laws tell drivers who goes first in different situations. To yield means a driver gives the right-of-way to another driver or pedestrian. A driver must yield: > > […] > > when two vehicles on different roadways reach an uncontrolled intersection at the same time. The vehicle on the left should yield to the vehicle on the right. ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-stop-signs/548211/33 "2010-07-27T20:30:04Z")
> [@Procrustus](#): > > Hey, in Seattle we have a great number of “uncontrolled intersections.” No stop or yield sign for any driver. If you’re used to it, you handle them like a yield sign, but if you’re new to the city, you assume if you don’t have a sign telling you to stop or yield, then the other driver does and you therefore have the right of way. Big mistake. St. Louis is the other way around – there’s a widespread belief here (probably unprovable) that St. Louis has more stop signs per mile than any other U.S. city. If you ask the street department why there are so many stop signs, they’ll tell you the Board of Aldermen (like a city council) requested them. If you ask the aldermen, they’ll tell you the neighborhoods petitioned to put them in. And if you ask the neighbors, they’ll curl your hair for hours with stories of drivers who cut through side streets at 50 mph to avoid the main streets, T-bone crashes by drivers who refused to yield, pedestrians who were hit by cars while crossing the street, etc. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-stop-signs/548211/34 "2010-07-27T20:36:58Z")
[quote=“Si\_Amigo, post:11, topic:548211”] > [@pulykamell](#): > > > [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > > > Also, I wish traffic circles were more commonly used in the US. > > That’s the solution; works prettty good in the UK . . . once you get used to driving on the wrong side of the road that is. 😃 What got me is not the driving on the other side of the road bit. What did get me, and correct me if I’m mistaken, but I swear when I was there a few weeks ago I came to this situation: there are some roundabouts which _also_ have traffic signals on them. However, the presence of green on this traffic signal does not necessarily mean you have the right of way. Apparently, some of these roundabouts, as I discovered have traffic signals stopping oncoming traffic (which is what I expected), while others do not and you’re supposed to yield to traffic that’s already on the circle. Which is counterintuitive to me. When I see “green,” I assume it means go, and you have the right of way. ---
**Author:** ![kenobi\_65](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kenobi_65/32/13178_2.png) [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-stop-signs/548211/35 "2010-07-27T20:38:37Z")
> [@Enuma\_Elish](#): > > Many stoplights still turn into blinking lights at a certain time of night in Green Bay. I think the rationale is: ‘Why bother with a full stop and waiting for a light when the traffic is no longer heavy?’ I completely agree. It’s frustrating to be driving home at midnight or 1 a.m., and to be stuck at a stoplight for 30 or 60 seconds, while absolutely no traffic flows through in the other direction. I think it just struck my wife as being something out of Green Acres. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-stop-signs/548211/36 "2010-07-27T20:39:59Z")
I forget where it is - Norway, perhaps, but there’s a European city that has removed all traffic control devices - they have no traffic signals, no stop signs, none of that. It’s been a spectacular success. When forced to be careful, people actually can drive safely without a bunch of signs telling them what to do. Around here, traffic circles are a bust - there’s one near my house that’s difficult to navigate as there’s a relatively major through road and two side streets that “T” with the main road. Other than UPS trucks going from one neighborhood to the other, nobody goes from one side road to the other. All four entries to the circle have YIELD signs, but they’re universally ignored by the through traffic, so cars entering from the sides have to wait for a safe hole in traffic. ---
**Author:** ![StinkyBurrito](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/b9e5f3/32.png) [@StinkyBurrito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StinkyBurrito)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-stop-signs/548211/37 "2010-07-27T20:41:59Z")
How are you supposed to tell if it is an uncontrolled intersection without a sign telling you that it is an uncontrolled intersection? And if they have to put a sign in telling drivers that it is an uncontrolled intersection, then why don’t they just put up the proper stop or yield signs? Or are you just supposed to stop at every single intersection whether it has a stop sign or not? In which case, why spend money on stop signs for any intersections. I don’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Disheavel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e274bd/32.png) [@Disheavel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Disheavel)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-stop-signs/548211/38 "2010-07-27T20:42:09Z")
> [@hogarth](#): > > > [@billfish678](#): > > > > Is that even legal there? I can understand the local authorities not giving a crap and not having any signs. But to legally not have something at every intersection just boggles my mind. > > It boggles my mind that it boggles your mind. In residential areas in the parts of Canada I’ve lived in, uncontrolled intersections are the norm. I agree. Uncontrolled intersections are very common in non-urban areas. Seattle has a rigorous hierarchical street system. Arterials all have full signage. Regular streets all have stop signs to get on the arterials. But regular streets rarely have signage where they intersect. In some places they have small “traffic circles” to slow and aid traffic through intersections. Here is a [picture](http://maps.google.com/?ie=UTF8&hq=&hnear=7012+43rd+Ave+NE,+Seattle,+King,+Washington+98115&ll=47.677604,-122.291366&spn=0.003388,0.006153&t=h&z=18&layer=c&cbll=47.677605,-122.291505&panoid=c3_BmG72Jc_dJjv-nF22zA&cbp=12,263.33,,0,-0.57) of such an intersection. ---
**Author:** ![gotpasswords](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/c57346/32.png) [@gotpasswords](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gotpasswords)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-stop-signs/548211/39 "2010-07-27T20:46:05Z")
Found the city with no signs… The small Dutch town of [Makkinga](http://dvice.com/archives/2007/09/a-town-with-no-traffic-signs.php)doesn’t even have lane markings. [Some other European cities](http://www.spiegel.de/international/spiegel/0,1518,448747,00.html) are having pretty decent luck with removing traffic signs as well. ---
**Author:** ![NetTrekker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nettrekker/32/2909_2.png) [@NetTrekker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NetTrekker)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-stop-signs/548211/40 "2010-07-27T20:49:00Z")
> [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > > [@NetTrekker](#): > > > > > [@Nars\_Glinley](#): > > > > > > Couldn’t all stop signs (or maybe 95%) be replaced with yield signs? I would think that the amount of gasoline conserved would be staggering. > > > > > > I just can’t think of any logical or compelling reason that I should have to stop at an intersection if there is no traffic coming. > > > > What if someone else is coming at the same time, and both decide they can beat the other thru the intersection…or figure the other one will stop, so I don’t have to… > > Then the 4 way stop sign rules would apply. And be as useless as a screen door on a submarine (now where did I hear that before?) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-stop-signs/548211.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-stop-signs/548211.md?page=3)