Why do we have the letter C?

[Ruken]

@Indistinguishable

/dʒ/ totally has its own letter: <j>. It’s sometimes indicated with <g> as well, of course, but if you say “The <j> sound” to an English speaker, you can be assured they will understand “Oh, /dʒ/”.

On the other hand, I don’t think /ts/ is a basic affricate in English… no one thinks of “fits” as anything other than “fit” + the suffix -s. And “tsunami” is still just some crazy loanword; I personally just pronounce it /sunami/, with no regrets.

Of course, the very similar /tʃ/ is a basic affricate; it’s the one represented by the digraph <ch>, as you already indicated.

Righto. Forgot about j.

I think it makes perfect sense to represent africates using their component consonants. Of course then <ch> doesn’t make a whole lot of sense, but it’s not like we’re designing the language from the ground up. Another that I forgot (since we really just think of them as two separate consonants) is dz. Wikipediasays a little about this:

In the stop-fricative sequence, the stop has a release burst before the fricative starts; but in the affricate, the fricative element is the release. Stop-fricative sequences may have a syllable boundary between the two segments, but not necessarily.

In English, /ts/ and /dz/ (as in nuts and nods) are considered phonemically stop-fricative sequences because they may contain a morpheme boundary (for example, nuts is composed of nut and the plural suffix s). But the sounds are phonetically affricates.

[JKellyMap]

In English, /ts/ and /dz/ (as in nuts and nods) are considered phonemically stop-fricative sequences because they may contain a morpheme boundary (for example, nuts is composed of nut and the plural suffix s). But the sounds are phonetically affricates.

But what about “train”? (two-consonant sequence, supposedly). Isn’t that just pronounced “chrain”? (single affricate, supposedly).

(winkie due to the fact that this was the hotly debated subject of a thread a couple of months ago)

[Ruken]

@JKellyMap

But what about “train”? (two-consonant sequence, supposedly). Isn’t that just pronounced “chrain”? (single affricate, supposedly).

(winkie due to the fact that this was the hotly debated subject of a thread a couple of months ago)

Even reading over the definitions again I’m a little shaky on where the border is between affricate and regular consonant sequence. Any idea where that thread is?

[guizot]

@JKellyMap

Isn’t that just pronounced “chrain”? (single affricate, supposedly).

I believe that most people normally do, except when the assimilation of the phonology is pointed out, and then they feel compelled to affect their speech by inserting aspiration to show that they’re pronouncing it “correctly”–i.e., that they’re “pronouncing it the way it’s spelled,” (in their mind).

@Ruken

Any idea where that thread is?

It arose out of a thread about Alex Trebec, of all places. Then a a poll was started about it, but it was kind of ruined from the start, because the title of the poll showed the two spellings, and I think seeing those spellings caused many people to debcuccalize slightly in an unnatural way that they wouldn’t otherwise do for the /tr/ combination in this context, simply so that they could be “correct.” In other words, upon seeing that the spelling is different, they distorted their speech artificially, so the poll was kind of pointless. Well, that’s my take, at least.

The reason that no English words with that consonant combination are spelled with “chr” is just that that particular phonology is already covered by “tr,” and for consistency’s sake “chr” is left for /kr/.

[guizot]

Sorry, those links above should be reversed.

[Hyperelastic]

I get along just fine without B. I lost the ability to say the letter B when I was frightened by a bat as a sboolboy.

[Acsenray]

Silly bunt.

[Ruken]

@Hyperelastic

I get along just fine without B. I lost the ability to say the letter B when I was frightened by a bat as a sboolboy.

A preschool teacher had handpuppets for each (maybe just most?) letters. For B, she had a bear with a basketball tied to its hand. This one kid would always put the puppet on his hand and smack me in the head with the basketball. I’d forgotten about that. Fuck that kid, and maybe the letter B too.

[Nava]

@SciFiSam

Kinda, yes. They’re less likely to have origins as mixed as English and/or don’t have a written form as old as ours.

Spanish and Portuguese (to name just two) beg to differ.

[Acsenray]

@SciFiSam

Kinda, yes. They’re less likely to have origins as mixed as English and/or don’t have a written form as old as ours.

Utter nonsense.