# Why do we have to take the initiative in the Strait of Hormuz? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 30, 2011, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-to-take-the-initiative-in-the-strait-of-hormuz/607818 "2011-12-30T09:16:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![SeaCanary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SeaCanary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaCanary)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-to-take-the-initiative-in-the-strait-of-hormuz/607818/1 "2011-12-30T09:16:26Z")
Though I don’t have a cite, I believe very little of our oil flows through the Strait of Hormuz. What’s wrong with the U.S. doing nothing and leaving it all up to other nations to keep the strait open? I say this because the one thing that REALLY concerns me is mission creep. First we are there to keep the strait open. Then there is the search, with boots on the ground, for Iran’s nuclear weapons lab. Then we find out Iran has something else that needs taking care of or Israel’s existence is threatened. (Or whatever. Feel free to make up your own scenario.) For f\*ck’s sake we are FINALLY extricating ourselves from the Iraq war and I have some slight hope we’ll be leaving Afghanistan sometime in the (hopefully) near future. Do we have to jump right back into another conflict? Can’t someone else (or many “someones”) take the lead for a change if it’s all that important? ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Blucher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c5a1d2/32.png) [@Count\_Blucher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Blucher)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-to-take-the-initiative-in-the-strait-of-hormuz/607818/2 "2011-12-30T14:39:46Z")
I don’t think I’m going too far out on a limb by making the layman’s guess that there is some sort of back-room arm-twisting going on. Domestic vs Imported? Hard to say. But I’d prefer it on whole wheat with a dab of mayo. ---
**Author:** ![FairyChatMom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fairychatmom/32/21906_2.png) [@FairyChatMom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FairyChatMom)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-to-take-the-initiative-in-the-strait-of-hormuz/607818/3 "2011-12-30T15:14:01Z")
Lessee - Iraq, Kuwait, part of Saudi Arabia, Bahrain, Qatar, and most of UAE rely on free movement of vessels thru the Strait - not just for oil but for other imports and exports. I believe most of them are considered to be our allies, so that could explain the US interest in the area. Although I do agree that those directly affected need to take responsibility themselves, it doesn’t seem to work that way, does it? The idea of the US as the world’s police force is pretty deeply ingrained. I’m not an isolationist, but I do thing we need to quit injecting ourselves everywhere at the slightest provocation. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-to-take-the-initiative-in-the-strait-of-hormuz/607818/4 "2011-12-30T15:28:09Z")
It’s not really that much hard work to keep the strait open. The US and UK have permanent installations in the [Mussandam](http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/35834.htm) (the noncontiguous bit of Oman which sticks out into the strait) with probably enough air power to maintain air superiority and discourage any Iranian blockade _without_ the Seventh Fleet. I’m guessing a bit on how many aircraft are currently deployed there. I haven’t been in a very long time, but prior to the second Gulf War there were something like 250 fighter and strike aircraft there. The entire Iranian air force has fewer frontline fighter aircraft than that. ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-to-take-the-initiative-in-the-strait-of-hormuz/607818/5 "2011-12-30T15:36:11Z")
The US historically takes a pretty dim view of other nations interfering with our ability to perform trade on the high seas. This goes all the way back to the Barbary Wars (primarily against Tripoli, located in modern-day Libya) and the Quasi-War with France, around the turn of the 19th century. There have been a variety of (relatively) minor fights we’ve gotten into with various nations over things like this, including a brief spat with the Iranians in this same body of water back in the 80’s. Honestly, and this is my own personal entirely unqualified amateur opinion, this is probably just Iran testing the waters (apologies for the pun) to see how we’ll react in the midst of pulling back our own commitments to various other conflicts in the region. ---
**Author:** ![Stormcrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/0ea827/32.png) [@Stormcrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stormcrow)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-to-take-the-initiative-in-the-strait-of-hormuz/607818/6 "2011-12-30T15:41:42Z")
> [@Raguleader](#): > > The US historically takes a pretty dim view of other nations interfering with our ability to perform trade on the high seas. This goes all the way back to the Barbary Wars (primarily against Tripoli, located in modern-day Libya) and the Quasi-War with France, around the turn of the 19th century. There have been a variety of (relatively) minor fights we’ve gotten into with various nations over things like this, including a brief spat with the Iranians in this same body of water back in the 80’s. > > Honestly, and this is my own personal entirely unqualified amateur opinion, this is probably just Iran testing the waters (apologies for the pun) to see how we’ll react in the midst of pulling back our own commitments to various other conflicts in the region. I agree - we need to take the lead because we always have, and it is expected of us. It’s part and parcel of being the world’s leading superpower. Also, even if only a tiny portion of our oil flows through Mormuz, any disruption there will have essentially the same effect as if all of it did - prices of oil worldwide will increase regardless of source. I also think we’ll work pretty hard to make any action a multilateral operation, even if it is more of an image thing and we end up carrying most of the burden. It’s to the USA’s advantage if we get help. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-to-take-the-initiative-in-the-strait-of-hormuz/607818/7 "2011-12-30T16:12:41Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > It’s not really that much hard work to keep the strait open. The US and UK have permanent installations in the [Mussandam](http://www.state.gov/r/pa/ei/bgn/35834.htm) (the noncontiguous bit of Oman which sticks out into the strait) with probably enough air power to maintain air superiority and discourage any Iranian blockade _without_ the Seventh Fleet. 5th Fleet. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 4:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-to-take-the-initiative-in-the-strait-of-hormuz/607818/8 "2011-12-30T16:59:38Z")
Iran has enough submarines, torpedo equipped patrol boats and anti-ship missiles to make the area very dangerous for oil tankers. I am at a loss at who else has the hardware to be a significant deterrent to the Iranians. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-to-take-the-initiative-in-the-strait-of-hormuz/607818/9 "2011-12-30T17:15:51Z")
Combined Task Force 152 (CTF-152) is the organisation tasked with the Persian Gulf/Arabian Sea areas. I can’t get a current list of ships assigned to duty there at the moment. It is multi-national. The European portion of NATO, China, India, and Australia all probably have the capability to send a flottilla to the Persian Gulf on their own. Dunno about Russia, they used to be able to. Nearer to the straits, Saudi Arabia has an air force nearby that could try to bomb mine laying surface vessels. The US has spent a lot of money and time building up a large infrastructure needed for overseas deployments. Only a few others have. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-to-take-the-initiative-in-the-strait-of-hormuz/607818/10 "2011-12-30T17:21:18Z")
We need to take the lead because nobody else will. And if the straits are closed, we will suffer great economic damage. You can find other threads on this board where the successful economies of other nations are discussed, and rarely is there a mention that the US pays the cost of maintaining free trade on the high seas and these other countries benefit from this. We do it out of self interest. Other take advantage of that. We don’t do anything to change that because we are proud Americans and won’t enter into agreements with other countries because we always want to be in charge and don’t want to be obligated by the consideration of an agreement with others. ---
**Author:** ![SeaCanary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e274bd/32.png) [@SeaCanary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SeaCanary)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 5:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-to-take-the-initiative-in-the-strait-of-hormuz/607818/11 "2011-12-30T17:41:38Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > … You can find other threads on this board where the successful economies of other nations are discussed, and rarely is there a mention that the US pays the cost of maintaining free trade on the high seas and these other countries benefit from this. > > … I was aware of another (fascinating) [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=636473) discussing the feasibility and probabilities of Iran closing the strait, but not what you mention. I am aware that we rarely ask for help. What I’m saying is, am I alone in thinking this must change? I think Germany and France and Canada should shoulder more of the burden, but they won’t unless we ask. ---
**Author:** ![newcomer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/e5b9ba/32.png) [@newcomer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/newcomer)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-to-take-the-initiative-in-the-strait-of-hormuz/607818/12 "2011-12-30T18:28:47Z")
> [@SeaCanary](#): > > What I’m saying is, am I alone in thinking this must change? I think Germany and France and Canada should shoulder more of the burden, but they won’t unless we ask. Why should other sovereign nations shoulder the burden of US acting out of self-interest and general assholerry? What kind of thinking is that? That kind of thinking is extremely immoral b/c what you’re saying is, for example, your brother goes and beats up some little kid and you join in to finish the kid. That you can convince people that the kid deserved it is the only true skill. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-to-take-the-initiative-in-the-strait-of-hormuz/607818/13 "2011-12-30T18:49:32Z")
> [@newcomer](#): > > Why should other sovereign nations shoulder the burden of US acting out of self-interest and general assholerry? What kind of thinking is that? Umm, Iran mining the straits is an example of US assholerry? ---
**Author:** ![Raguleader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/258eb7/32.png) [@Raguleader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Raguleader)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-to-take-the-initiative-in-the-strait-of-hormuz/607818/14 "2011-12-30T19:11:36Z")
> [@mlees](#): > > Umm, Iran mining the straits is an example of US assholerry? Yep, because those little nations are incapable of acting in their own self interests unless we manipulate them to do so, donchaknow!😃 ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-to-take-the-initiative-in-the-strait-of-hormuz/607818/15 "2011-12-30T22:24:55Z")
> [@SeaCanary](#): > > I was aware of another (fascinating) [thread](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=636473) discussing the feasibility and probabilities of Iran closing the strait, but not what you mention. I am aware that we rarely ask for help. > > What I’m saying is, am I alone in thinking this must change? I think Germany and France and Canada should shoulder more of the burden, but they won’t unless we ask. Doing military action by committee is usually more trouble than it is worth, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be reimbursed for our trouble. There are other countries that need the straits open more than we do. ---
**Author:** ![TriPolar](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tripolar/32/3008_2.png) [@TriPolar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TriPolar)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2011, 10:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-to-take-the-initiative-in-the-strait-of-hormuz/607818/16 "2011-12-30T22:42:10Z")
> [@JoelUpchurch](#): > > Doing military action by committee is usually more trouble than it is worth, but that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t be reimbursed for our trouble. There are other countries that need the straits open more than we do. The simple approach is to claim all international waters and the airspace over them as our own and charge a toll on any ship that uses them. We’ve been doing the job of maintaining free passage since before WWII with minimal contribution from the rest of the world while they have taken advantage of it. There may be some blowback if that plan is implemented though. ---
**Author:** ![JoelUpchurch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f05b48/32.png) [@JoelUpchurch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoelUpchurch)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-to-take-the-initiative-in-the-strait-of-hormuz/607818/17 "2011-12-31T01:04:56Z")
> [@TriPolar](#): > > The simple approach is to claim all international waters and the airspace over them as our own and charge a toll on any ship that uses them. We’ve been doing the job of maintaining free passage since before WWII with minimal contribution from the rest of the world while they have taken advantage of it. There may be some blowback if that plan is implemented though. Or we can withdraw all our forces from the Persian Gulf and let the Iranians sink a couple of tankers and countries will be throwing money at us to deal with the situation and won’t be too picky about how much force we use. When you are the police, you don’t want people to forget why they need you. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-to-take-the-initiative-in-the-strait-of-hormuz/607818/18 "2011-12-31T01:13:18Z")
We’re not the police. We’re more of a generally benevolent but largely self-interested private security force. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-to-take-the-initiative-in-the-strait-of-hormuz/607818/19 "2011-12-31T01:15:09Z")
You got to man up in a pissing match. This is a test we better not duck & run from. Iran is flexing its muscle in the region. They are waiting to see how big Obama’s nads are. Think Hitler and his early incursions. No one stood up to him either. At least not until half of Europe was swallowed up. Iran has been pushing the boundaries for awhile now. No one has really stood up to them except for Iraq and Saddam. That was really a proxy war. We were quietly supplying and urging Saddam on behind the scenes. With him gone there’s no one else left to stop them. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 31, 2011, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-to-take-the-initiative-in-the-strait-of-hormuz/607818/20 "2011-12-31T01:18:21Z")
Hitler had 20,000 tanks, and the French and British stood up to him long before “half of Europe was swallowed up”. Iran has some fighters, submarines and surface ships which are mostly within 5 years of their designed operational life. They’re practically rusty. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-have-to-take-the-initiative-in-the-strait-of-hormuz/607818.md?page=2)