# Why do we need Supermax prisons? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 19, 2025, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838 "2025-03-19T19:52:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![needscoffee](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/needscoffee/32/1076_2.png) [@needscoffee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/needscoffee)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/21 "2025-03-20T01:49:49Z")
> [@Dallas\_Jones](#): > > The Unibomber > [@Lucas\_Jackson](#): > > Not that I know anything about it, but my guess is that of all the bad guys in prison right now, he’s probably the one most likely to engineer an escape… should he want to. Unlikely, since he’s dead. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 3:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/22 "2025-03-20T03:45:57Z")
> [@needscoffee](#): > > Unlikely, since he’s dead. So he _did_ get out. ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 3:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/23 "2025-03-20T03:57:04Z")
Details, details… ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/24 "2025-03-20T04:09:23Z")
> [@madmonk28](#): > > and regularly uses tactics that the UN has deemed to be torture. Cite ? > [@madmonk28](#): > > America has the fifth highest incarceration rate in the world Due largely to the so called (and failed) “War on Drugs”. However, there are no good figures from North Korea and China, Russia and a few others. But still our rate is quite high, certainly in the top ten. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/25 "2025-03-20T04:23:12Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Due largely to the so called (and failed) “War on Drugs”. Also our _massive_ levels of racism and war against the poor. Also, profit. ---
**Author:** ![Mops](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mops/32/16494_2.png) [@Mops](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mops)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 10:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/26 "2025-03-20T10:43:46Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Are people put into Supermax for punishment or because they think the person is too dangerous to be anywhere else? (really asking) What strikes me about the three men named in the OP (Richard Reid, Ted Kaczynski, Robert Hanssen) is that they did not seem to have a record of serious in-person violence (two persons setting or trying to set bombs; one white-collar spy), so they are/were probably less dangerous when in prison than the average long-sentence prisoner. ---
**Author:** ![Loach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/loach/32/350_2.png) [@Loach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loach)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/27 "2025-03-20T14:34:36Z")
> [@Mops](#): > > > [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > > > Are people put into Supermax for punishment or because they think the person is too dangerous to be anywhere else? (really asking) > > What strikes me about the three men named in the OP (Richard Reid, Ted Kaczynski, Robert Hanssen) is that they did not seem to have a record of serious in-person violence (two persons setting or trying to set bombs; one white-collar spy), so they are/were probably less dangerous when in prison than the average long-sentence prisoner. For all three they probably safer being in isolation. Criminals have an odd sense of hierarchy. I could see terrorists and traitors being treated on the same level as pedophiles. Someone nutty like Kazynski probably wouldn’t fare well either. Personally I would rather be in a Supermax than in general population in a dungeon like Rahway or Trenton State. ---
**Author:** ![Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba9def/32.png) [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/28 "2025-03-20T14:40:52Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Are people put into Supermax for punishment or because they think the person is too dangerous to be anywhere else? The OP link didn’t go deep enough. Check out the wiki on ADX Florence. It lists who is currently incarcerated there. A lot them are in there because they have assaulted or killed guards or inmates. The rest seem to be terrorists, and El Chapo. > **[List of current inmates at ADX Florence](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_current_inmates_at_ADX_Florence)** > > This is a list of notable inmates held at ADX Florence. > This list contains foreign citizens who committed or attempted to commit terrorist attacks against United States citizens and interests. All sentences are without parole. > This list contains U.S. citizens, regardless of origin, who committed or attempted to commit terrorist attacks against United States citizens and interests. > Archived July 2, 2019, at the Wayback Machine ---
**Author:** ![Lucas\_Jackson](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lucas_jackson/32/303_2.png) [@Lucas\_Jackson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lucas_Jackson)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 3:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/29 "2025-03-20T15:09:05Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Also our _massive_ levels of racism and war against the poor. Quoted for truth. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/30 "2025-03-20T15:30:06Z")
This is IMHO, so you’re free to spout your snarky opinions, but do you actually know anything about anything related to the subject. “Hurr durr, he’s a mass murderer living better than American middle class” [Norway famously has the lowest rate of recidivism in the world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recidivism#Norway). They are very practical about it. It’s better for society as a whole if they treat their criminals better, than their criminals treated their victims. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/2g56susrNQY/maxresdefault.jpg "The Norden - Nordic prisons (excerpt)") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2g56susrNQY) ---
**Author:** ![Reply](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/reply/32/15952_2.png) [@Reply](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reply)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/31 "2025-03-20T16:50:56Z")
Heh, you don’t have to convince me! I may be snarky, but I’m fully aboard the “make America civilized ~~again~~ for once” train. Count me among those who don’t see the point of abusing our prisoners the way we do, whether they’re in a Supermax, general population, or Gitmo. And then farm them like cattle for the private corps that run many of these operations. It’s just… well, like you said, impractical. It is not an evidence-based approach to criminal justice. I just pointed out the Norwegian model because it is _such_ a stark contrast showing how it absolutely doesn’t have to be this way. I wish American discourse more often took a comparative lens… all too often, we think we’re the only ones who know how to do something, and never bother to look at how the developed countries deal with similar situations. But I’m sure I’m just preaching to the choir here. As an aside, though, I do wonder about recidivism and rehabilitation (anywhere) when it comes to mass murderers/spree shooters/serial killers and the like. It’s one thing when you commit a crime of passion and kill a particular individual in the heat of the moment. But when you methodically execute a plan to kill nearly 80 people you don’t know, including children… could even the most benevolent music production education program rehabilitate them into a “normal” citizen again? Is there any neighborhood in any society that would welcome them back and give them a chance, or would they immediately hunt him down and slaughter him? Is there any way to rehabilitate someone like that? ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/32 "2025-03-20T19:02:00Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > Also our _massive_ levels of racism and war against the poor. Also, profit. Racism is not a small part of it, and being poor means you cant hire the top legal talent. However, only around 8% of all prisoners are in private prisons. > [@Charlie\_Tan](#): > > [Norway famously has the lowest rate of recidivism in the world](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Recidivism#Norway). They are very practical about it. It’s better for society as a whole if they treat their criminals better, than their criminals treated their victims. I certainly agree treating criminal better will lower recidivism, but maybe his suite is a little bit too much, eh? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/33 "2025-03-20T21:06:23Z")
> [@Whack-a-Mole](#): > > Are people put into Supermax for punishment or because they think the person is too dangerous to be anywhere else? (really asking) The guiding principle is that a prisoner is put in a Supermax unit because they cannot have normal contact with other prisoners. That can either be because they are likely to be violent towards other prisoners or because other prisoners are likely to be violent towards them. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2025, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/34 "2025-03-20T21:09:42Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Racism is not a small part of it, and being poor means you cant hire the top legal talent. However, only around 8% of all prisoners are in private prisons. Non-private prisons are also a business. For example prison guards are a significant force behind “tough on crime” laws because their employment _depends_ on as many people as possible being imprisoned for as long as possible. And then there’s all that prison labor. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 12:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/35 "2025-03-21T00:05:53Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > For example prison guards are a significant force behind “tough on crime” laws because their employment _depends_ on as many people as possible being imprisoned for as long as possible. Nope. Prison guards have work security. It is a job few want. In Santa Clara county, a good number of prison guards- who are LEOs there, try to get into the sheriffs as soon as they can- usually after three years. Most prisons are overcrowded, and the guards hate that- means more work for the same pay, and prisoners who get more rowdy, and thus their job becomes more dangerous. So, no prison guards do NOT want more prisoners. ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 2:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/36 "2025-03-21T02:22:14Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Nope. Yes. Here in California for example they were one of the forces behind the “Three Strikes Law” that put lots of people in prison. ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/37 "2025-03-21T02:33:16Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > …other prisoners are likely to be violent towards them. So, you (prisoner) are punished more if other prisoners want to kill you? ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 2:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/38 "2025-03-21T02:35:21Z")
No, because as I’ve said, being classified into a Supermax unit is not considered to be a punishment. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 2:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/39 "2025-03-21T02:38:19Z")
> [@Der\_Trihs](#): > > For example prison guards are a significant force behind “tough on crime” laws because their employment _depends_ on as many people as possible being imprisoned for as long as possible. That was not my experience. Prison guards had very little political influence and what little we had was directed towards getting higher salaries. ---
**Author:** ![Velocity](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/velocity/32/18006_2.png) [@Velocity](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velocity)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2025, 2:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/40 "2025-03-21T02:52:59Z")
If anything, I would guess that prison guards want a sweet spot of inmate capacity - just enough that they will have a job, but few enough so that it can make their workload light. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838.md?page=3)