# Why do we need Supermax prisons? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [March 19, 2025, 7:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838 "2025-03-19T19:52:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2025, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/61 "2025-03-22T23:28:44Z")
While looking into the difference between maximum security prisons and medium security prisons, I found this interesting article that discusses the differences. > **[My Journey From a Maximum to Medium Security Prison](https://prisonjournalismproject.org/2023/10/10/difference-between-maximum-medium-security-prison/)** > > All I had known were 30-foot concrete walls and locked steel bars. Then I was transferred — and felt something I’d never felt before. > While walking to my cell unescorted, I quickly surveyed my surroundings and was amazed that the unit had tables, benches, a flat-screen television, a laundry room, telephones and a shower area. The cell I was assigned to had a countertop table and a plastic chair, a separate toilet and sink made of porcelain instead of steel, a small plastic trash can, hooks on the wall to hang things, and my favorite new commodity: a window. > > Upon arriving at the medium security prison, I realized that I’d forgotten about little luxuries. Here, for example, I could adjust the knobs on a faucet sink to get the water temperature just right. At the max prison, with the steel toilet-and-sink combo, there were only push buttons for hot and cold water. ---
**Author:** ![Jophiel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jophiel/32/66_2.png) [@Jophiel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jophiel)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2025, 4:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/62 "2025-03-23T04:32:00Z")
> [@Wesley\_Clark](#): > > I wonder if there was an old prison that was used before 2011 for films like that. The old [Joliet Prison](https://www.jolietprison.org/pop-culture-in-old-joliet-prison.html) in Joliet, IL has been used for a bunch of movies and television shows. The [Wiki](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joliet_Correctional_Center#Television_and_film) for it has a more extensive list than the prison website. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2025, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/63 "2025-03-23T14:18:16Z")
I’ve noticed that one of the common ideas that seems to exist about prisons is that prisoners never get to see outdoors. Even Johnny Cash sang “I ain’t seen the sunshine since I don’t know when.” This is not accurate. Prison units have windows. Prisoners can see outside. And prisoners have daily access to outside recreation areas aka the yard. The weird thing is people know this. Everyone has seen scenes in movies and tv shows of prisoners walking around the yard. Yet somehow people simultaneously believe that prisoners spend their days walking around the yard in a crowd of other prisoners and also spend their days locked up by themselves in a cell where they never see the outdoors. ---
**Author:** ![Cmyers1980](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmyers1980/32/11814_2.png) [@Cmyers1980](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cmyers1980)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/64 "2025-03-24T01:48:44Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > It is strongly focused on rehabilitation. Why is the recidivism rate in the US so high then? ---
**Author:** ![Whack-a-Mole](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/whack-a-mole/32/141_2.png) [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 2:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/65 "2025-03-24T02:01:14Z")
> [@Cmyers1980](#): > > Why is the recidivism rate in the US so high then? There are few paths to a decent life after having been in prison. Many (most?) job applications ask if you have been convicted of a crime. If you have the chances to get that job are much decreased. It may be some jobs will not even allow it or make it extra super-difficult (lawyer, accountant, etc.). Someone who has no ability to get a job and make a living often return to crime as a way to survive. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/66 "2025-03-24T04:31:36Z")
> [@Cmyers1980](#): > > > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > > > It is strongly focused on rehabilitation. > > Why is the recidivism rate in the US so high then? Because rehabilitating somebody is incredibly difficult. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/67 "2025-03-24T12:14:09Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ve noticed that one of the common ideas that seems to exist about prisons is that prisoners never get to see outdoors. Even Johnny Cash sang “I ain’t seen the sunshine since I don’t know when.” > > This is not accurate. Prison units have windows. Prisoners can see outside. And prisoners have daily access to outside recreation areas aka the yard. > > The weird thing is people know this. Everyone has seen scenes in movies and tv shows of prisoners walking around the yard. Yet somehow people simultaneously believe that prisoners spend their days walking around the yard in a crowd of other prisoners and also spend their days locked up by themselves in a cell where they never see the outdoors. Is that true of supermax prisons? Fwiw, I’ve recently started tutoring stats in a medium security prison, and it looks like a small, low-budget, college campus with a giant wall around it. But certainly in that medium security prison, prisoners walk around outdoors regularly. And the fact that I’m there (and the program I’m volunteering for is there) suggests that someone in the prison system is trying to help with rehabilitation and reentry to society. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/68 "2025-03-24T13:32:52Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > I’ve noticed that one of the common ideas that seems to exist about prisons is that prisoners never get to see outdoors I’m not American, but I was under the opinion that especially Super-Max prisons severly limit outdoor time, and it is not the “great outdoors”, it is a view of the sky. The worst prison in my native Zimbabwe, Chikarubi, sounds preferable in many ways to the brutality of SuperMax. Even in Chikarubi, a prison infamous for forcing inmates to sleep naked, allows several hours every day outside in a secure area. I mean, when you (the US) are more brutal than the former Mugabe regime, it may be time to sit down and think hard about that. (Although my fear would be the thought, “not brutal enough” would be the first one to occur) ---
**Author:** ![GailForce](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/dfb087/32.png) [@GailForce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GailForce)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/69 "2025-03-24T13:39:24Z")
What a great prison for murderers named "Arthur "! ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/70 "2025-03-24T13:46:05Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Prison units have windows. Prisoners can see outside. I know you are referring to USA, but Zimbabwe don’t, except for tiny skylights. South Africa too. Literally the only natural light many prisoners see is in the excercise yard. If they are even allowed out. Supermax is fucking third world, and should be illegal in a so-called civilised country. I mean, we should hold the USA to a higher standard than Equitorial Guinea, let alone ZW and RSA. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/71 "2025-03-24T14:23:29Z")
> [@GailForce](#): > > What a great prison for murderers named "Arthur "! It’s a lot more prosaic than that. New York was originally a Dutch settlement and some places still retain Dutch names. Kill is just the Dutch word for creek. So we have places in downstate New York with names like Catskill, Fishkill, Peekskill, and Wallkill. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/72 "2025-03-24T18:53:33Z")
> [@Cmyers1980](#): > > Why is the recidivism rate in the US so high then? Is it? > **[Recidivism Rates by Country 2025](https://worldpopulationreview.com/country-rankings/recidivism-rates-by-country)** The UK seems to be higher. I mean it is really hard to compare, I agree. I have seen articles like :“why does the USA have the highest recidivism rate?” without supporting that point" > [@scudsucker](#): > > Even in Chikarubi, a prison infamous for forcing inmates to sleep naked, allows several hours every day outside in a secure area. In the USA, prisoners do get outside time. Read further in Little\_Nemos post- > [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > This is not accurate. Prison units have windows. Prisoners can see outside. And prisoners have daily access to outside recreation areas aka the yard. Even in Supermax prisons- true, inmates often only get an hour a day. ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/73 "2025-03-24T20:05:58Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > In the USA, prisoners do get outside time I perhaps did not phrase my crticism clearly enough. Outside time is better than no outside time. But if your prison is otherwise pretty much equivalent to the 3rld world (and so-called “shithole countries”) you are doing quite a few things wrong. Need I mention Guanantamo Bay? It is not in the regular US prison system but it would not be out of place in a real shithole counry, like Central African Republic. And this is not even a trump thing, the US has been extraordinarily renditioning people, holding them without trial, for years now. And that, as terrible as it is, is not even the worst thing about overincarceration and insane sentencing in the USA. “Outside time” is the least of your convicts problems. "Supermax’ prisons are completely unnecessary. The culture of retribution versus rehabilitation is why they exist. And that is a sign of a shithole country. ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/74 "2025-03-24T21:36:29Z")
Regarding prison windows and outdoor access for inmates: [Milwaukee Secure Detention Facility](https://doc.wi.gov/Pages/OffenderInformation/AdultInstitutions/MilwaukeeSecureDetentionFacility.aspx) does not give inmates time outdoors, nor do the inmates have access to windows which look outdoors. The windows seen from the outside are either for areas not accessible to inmates or they are false windows. The facility is designed as a holding area for probation revocations, and while some inmates end up spending only a few hours there, others may spend over a year there before their cases/violations are reviewed. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 24, 2025, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/75 "2025-03-24T23:55:53Z")
> [@scudsucker](#): > > I perhaps did not phrase my crticism clearly enough. Outside time is better than no outside time. But if your prison is otherwise pretty much equivalent to the 3rld world (and so-called “shithole countries”) you are doing quite a few things wrong. But who is claiming that? ---
**Author:** ![scudsucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scudsucker/32/14101_2.png) [@scudsucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scudsucker)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2025, 12:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/76 "2025-03-25T00:36:25Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > But who is claiming that? I am. I am claiming that. ---
**Author:** ![Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/son_of_a_rich/32/5439_2.png) [@Son\_of\_a\_Rich](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Son_of_a_Rich)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2025, 1:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/77 "2025-03-25T01:25:57Z")
In the penal system of my world, there are several levels of discomfiture for the prisoners. The level with the most benefits is gained by good behavior, and the voluntary consumption of sedatives. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2025, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/78 "2025-03-25T01:27:52Z")
> [@scudsucker](#): > > I am. I am claiming that. So, take a little look at my cite. Then please give us a cite,. as the numbers do not back up your opinion. If you have no cite and it is simply your opinion, say so. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2025, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/79 "2025-03-25T01:33:29Z")
Is the purpose of Supermax prisons really to provide a more punishing environment for special prisoners? I thought they were for prisoners who, if they escaped, would represent an inordinate danger to the public or embarrassment to the government. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2025, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838/80 "2025-03-25T19:34:34Z")
It is because they are an extreme danger to the public. They might have ordered a execution from another prison, killed a guard, killed a lot of people, etc, It is not for punishment. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-need-supermax-prisons/1015838.md?page=5)