# Why do we not use the smallpox vaccine to protect against AIDS **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 11, 2005, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-not-use-the-smallpox-vaccine-to-protect-against-aids/311945 "2005-07-11T05:07:25Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Tuckerfan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/eada6e/32.png) [@Tuckerfan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tuckerfan)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-not-use-the-smallpox-vaccine-to-protect-against-aids/311945/21 "2005-07-11T22:47:51Z")
So, **Qaddie** , I remember getting the vaccination, but I don’t have any scarring, so does that mean the vaccine was a dud, or does it have more to do with the fact that scars tend to fade rather quickly on me? (I have a scar from a 3rd degree burn I got about 2 years ago, that’s almost faded out.) ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-not-use-the-smallpox-vaccine-to-protect-against-aids/311945/22 "2005-07-11T22:52:50Z")
> [@Tuckerfan](#): > > So, **Qaddie** , I remember getting the vaccination, but I don’t have any scarring, so does that mean the vaccine was a dud, or does it have more to do with the fact that scars tend to fade rather quickly on me? (I have a scar from a 3rd degree burn I got about 2 years ago, that’s almost faded out.) Not everyone has a strong enough reaction to cause a scar. But that doesn’t mean you weren’t protected. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Harmonix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonix)\ **Post date:** [July 11, 2005, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-not-use-the-smallpox-vaccine-to-protect-against-aids/311945/23 "2005-07-11T23:58:59Z")
> [@adam yax](#): > > Do you really think that this is the truth? Where does human ego fit into your equation? If a scientist finds the cure for AIDS, we’ll hear about it even if the giant multinational pharmacutical company wants to keep it quiet. Your claim has the same validity as the 300 mile carburetor conspiracy claim. he’s probably partially right. The fact that theres a whole crapload of money to be made off HAART cocktails means theres less drive to produce a vaccine. Many of my prof’s are HIV researchers and I’ll tell you that a -safe- HIV vaccine is NOT easy to make. As I said earlier, HIV is incredibly mutable. > [@](#): > > If a person has AIDS and it has not been detected yet, giving that person a standard live-virus smallpox vaccination could basically give him smallpox Small pox vaccine doesn’t actually use small=pox virus. By some fluke of evolution vaccination with vaccinia virus confers very good immunity against small-pox. ---
**Author:** ![Scruloose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e68b1a/32.png) [@Scruloose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scruloose)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-not-use-the-smallpox-vaccine-to-protect-against-aids/311945/24 "2005-07-12T00:02:23Z")
> [@Qadgop the Mercotan](#): > > Not everyone has a strong enough reaction to cause a scar. But that doesn’t mean you weren’t protected. Indeed - I’ve been vaccinated twice and have no tell tale scar. ---
**Author:** ![Wesley\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wesley_clark/32/20581_2.png) [@Wesley\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wesley_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 12:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-not-use-the-smallpox-vaccine-to-protect-against-aids/311945/25 "2005-07-12T00:45:15Z")
> [@rfgdxm](#): > > But there were numerous cases of HIV infection in the US in the 1980s. If children in the US stopped being vaccinated sometime between 1972 and the mid-1970s, this would imply that the vast majority of cases of HIV in the 1980s happened to people who had got the smallpox vaccine. Thus if the smallpox vaccine does confers some immunity to HIV infection, it is rather imperfect. Its not a true vaccine that offers immunity like the polio vaccine, it just slows the progression and makes HIV less likely to enter a cell. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/46a35a/32.png) [@Tim\_T-Bonham.net](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_T-Bonham.net)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 4:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-not-use-the-smallpox-vaccine-to-protect-against-aids/311945/26 "2005-07-12T04:18:01Z")
Nearly any live vaccine has the possibility that it will actually infect some tiny proportion of the recipients with the actual disease. So if the smallpox vaccine does this extremely rarely, say 1 out of a half-million doses, and we gave it to the approximate 200 million adults in the USA, we could expect about 400 people to actually come down with smallpox. Now that might be acceptable (especially if you & your friends are not in the 400 victims). But most people would not consider this acceptable. Especially since smallpox is pretty well eradicated from the world now; but this would suddenly create 400 smallpox cases, each of whom could infect some others, etc. The chance of re-introducing smallpox into the world is a pretty serious thing to think about. It seems that most medical authorities don’t think it’s worth the risk, regardless of the expense issues. Expecially when it isn’t clear just how effective this is, or for how long. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Harmonix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonix)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 4:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-not-use-the-smallpox-vaccine-to-protect-against-aids/311945/27 "2005-07-12T04:22:02Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > Its not a true vaccine that offers immunity like the polio vaccine, it just slows the progression and makes HIV less likely to enter a cell. I think it only slows the progression. It shouldn’t prevent cellular entry in any meaninful way. ---
**Author:** ![Smeghead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f1d935/32.png) [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 5:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-not-use-the-smallpox-vaccine-to-protect-against-aids/311945/28 "2005-07-12T05:47:50Z")
> [@t-bonham@scc.net](#): > > So if the smallpox vaccine does this extremely rarely, say 1 out of a half-million doses, and we gave it to the approximate 200 million adults in the USA, we could expect about 400 people to actually come down with smallpox. This was mentioned earlier, but it bears repeating. The smallpox vaccine is NOT made from the smallpox virus, so there is absolutely no way to come down with smallpox from receiving the vaccine. It’s made from the vaccinia virus, a different, closely related virus that can, in rare cases, set up a nasty infection of its own (I’ve seen pictures of vaccinia infection run amok that would curl your hair), but it is NOT NOT NOT smallpox. ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 9:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-not-use-the-smallpox-vaccine-to-protect-against-aids/311945/29 "2005-07-12T09:43:29Z")
> [@Wesley Clark](#): > > They took the blood of 10 people vaccinated against smallpox and 10 people who had never been vaccinated against smallpox, and exposed both batches to the HIV virus that causes AIDS. > > “They saw an average four-fold reduction in infectivity,” Coughter said in a telephone interview. What the hell? What does that mean? One group got 9/10 infected and the other got 6/10? one group got 8/10 infected and the other got 2/10? Needless to say, this experiment is nowhere near close to being statistically significant. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Harmonix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonix)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 10:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-not-use-the-smallpox-vaccine-to-protect-against-aids/311945/30 "2005-07-12T10:09:59Z")
> [@Shalmanese](#): > > What the hell? What does that mean? One group got 9/10 infected and the other got 6/10? one group got 8/10 infected and the other got 2/10? > > Needless to say, this experiment is nowhere near close to being statistically significant. I took it as meaning that viral load was 4x lower in the smallpox vaccinated group. I suppose it could also mean that it took 4x the amount of virus to infect them as well. ---
**Author:** ![butler1850](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/779978/32.png) [@butler1850](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/butler1850)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-not-use-the-smallpox-vaccine-to-protect-against-aids/311945/31 "2005-07-12T18:29:33Z")
> [@Anne Neville](#): > > I was born in 1975, no scar, so I don’t think I was. > > [The CDC says that routine smallpox vaccination stopped in the US in 1972.](http://www.bt.cdc.gov/agent/smallpox/vaccination/faq.asp) Now I’m curious. Born in 1970, on an Air Force base in the Con-US, and went to Turkey in '71 when my father was deployed there… Why no vaccination for me? Was the “routine” selective? -Butler ---
**Author:** ![Shalmanese](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/45deac/32.png) [@Shalmanese](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shalmanese)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-not-use-the-smallpox-vaccine-to-protect-against-aids/311945/32 "2005-07-12T19:37:46Z")
> [@Harmonix](#): > > I took it as meaning that viral load was 4x lower in the smallpox vaccinated group. > > I suppose it could also mean that it took 4x the amount of virus to infect them as well. In that case, it seems pretty much useless. How many people contract AIDS from only a single encounter? I would guess that most people with AIDS habitually performed unprotected sex or used dirty needles so all this would do would be to delay when they got it by a few months. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Harmonix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonix)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-not-use-the-smallpox-vaccine-to-protect-against-aids/311945/33 "2005-07-12T21:26:06Z")
> [@](#): > > Now I’m curious. Born in 1970 [snip] Why no vaccination for me? Was the “routine” selective? Pretty sure you don’t get vaccinated until you’re 4-5. A vaccine shot at birth’d likely kill you. > [@](#): > > In that case, it seems pretty much useless. How many people contract AIDS from only a single encounter? I would guess that most people with AIDS habitually performed unprotected sex or used dirty needles so all this would do would be to delay when they got it by a few months. Better then nothing. It could help in cases of accidental hypodermic needle stabs by nurses too. Right now I believe they undergo immediate HAART. ---
**Author:** ![Harmonix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/3ec8ea/32.png) [@Harmonix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Harmonix)\ **Post date:** [July 12, 2005, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-not-use-the-smallpox-vaccine-to-protect-against-aids/311945/34 "2005-07-12T21:27:32Z")
HAART: Highly Active Antiretroviral Therapy (drug cocktails) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-not-use-the-smallpox-vaccine-to-protect-against-aids/311945.md?page=1)