# Why do we pronounce foreign landmarks differently?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-pronounce-foreign-landmarks-differently/667313
**Category:** Factual Questions
**Created:** [August 27, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-pronounce-foreign-landmarks-differently/667313 "2013-08-27T16:27:12Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@IMfez](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IMfez)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2013, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-pronounce-foreign-landmarks-differently/667313/1 "2013-08-27T16:27:12Z")
I’ve seen a french video where all the natives pronounce Paris as “Paree”. So why do we pronounce it differently? Does the way they spell the word take priority? If so why do we write out Deatchland as Germany (A spelling I once saw on a German map)?
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### Author:  [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2013, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-pronounce-foreign-landmarks-differently/667313/2 "2013-08-27T16:35:35Z")
It’s “Deutschland”. There have been other threads addressing this, but someone else will have to do the search to find them for you.
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### Author:  [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-pronounce-foreign-landmarks-differently/667313/3 "2013-08-27T16:36:05Z")
“Germany” is not meant to be cognate with “Deutschland” – it is taken from “Germania” which is what the Romans called part of the area. “Deutschland” is taken from what the people call themselves.
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### Author:  [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2013, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-pronounce-foreign-landmarks-differently/667313/4 "2013-08-27T16:36:32Z")
No, the spelling you saw, on just about any German map, would actually be Deutschland.
But [here’s a previous thread on the subject](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=572004&highlight=foreign+pronunciations).
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### Author:  [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Prof.Pepperwinkle)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2013, 4:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-pronounce-foreign-landmarks-differently/667313/5 "2013-08-27T16:39:31Z")
Why do we pronounce foreign landmarks differently?
Tradition! That’s the way we’ve always done it, and it takes a media-based effort to change. Which is probably easier now than it used to be. But somebody has to care enough to put it in motion anyway.
Check out Wikipedia’s [List of countries and capitals in native languages](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_and_dependencies_and_their_capitals_in_native_languages).
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### Author:  [@PSXer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PSXer)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2013, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-pronounce-foreign-landmarks-differently/667313/6 "2013-08-27T16:42:43Z")
Foreigners always spell better than they pronounce
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### Author:  [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2013, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-pronounce-foreign-landmarks-differently/667313/7 "2013-08-27T16:53:19Z")
For “Paris,” English speakers pronounce it the way its spelling indicates, using English rules of orthography.
OTOH, French speakers call England “Angleterre” and the United States “Les Etats Unis.” It works both ways.
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### Author:  [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2013, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-pronounce-foreign-landmarks-differently/667313/8 "2013-08-27T17:17:59Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#):
>
> OTOH, French speakers call England “Angleterre” and the United States “Les Etats Unis.” It works both ways.
Both of those are at least kind of translations of the meaning of the name. “England” is derived from “Angle Land”, and “Angleterre” is pretty much that in French. And “Les Etats Unis” is “The United States” literally.
On the other hand, “Germany” in French is “Allemagne”, which derives from the name of a tribe in the region, and is not cognate with either “Germany” or “Deutschland”.
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### Author:  [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2013, 5:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-pronounce-foreign-landmarks-differently/667313/9 "2013-08-27T17:57:22Z")
These names were established in the Before Times, when people stayed at home and didn’t go wandering around the globe willy-nilly. So why would people who lived in England and spoke English use the German word to describe Germany and Germans? They used the English word for Germany. Same with the French. Who cares what the Russians or the Germans or the French or the Mohamettans or the Hindoos call themselves?
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### Author:  [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2013, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-pronounce-foreign-landmarks-differently/667313/10 "2013-08-27T18:03:49Z")
> [@leahcim](#):
>
> “…And “Les Etats Unis” is “The United States” literally…”
>
> On the other hand, “Germany” in French is “Allemagne”, which derives from the name of a tribe in the region, and is not cognate with either “Germany” or “Deutschland”.
Actually, it is “The States United” literally.
And, the Germans call France “Frankenreich” (have no idea why :p).
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### Author:  [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2013, 6:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-pronounce-foreign-landmarks-differently/667313/11 "2013-08-27T18:28:06Z")
> [@Lukeinva](#):
>
> And, the Germans call France “Frankenreich” (have no idea why :p).
_Frankreich_, unless it’s changed in the 25 years since I studied Deutsch.
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### Author:  [@Smeghead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Smeghead)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2013, 6:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-pronounce-foreign-landmarks-differently/667313/12 "2013-08-27T18:57:16Z")
> [@Lemur866](#):
>
> These names were established in the Before Times, when people stayed at home and didn’t go wandering around the globe willy-nilly. So why would people who lived in England and spoke English use the German word to describe Germany and Germans? They used the English word for Germany. Same with the French. Who cares what the Russians or the Germans or the French or the Mohamettans or the Hindoos call themselves?
Plus, what communication there was from Lands Far Away was purely written. There was no telephony - all people had to go on was the written word. How were they to know that those weird Frenchies pronounced “Paris” as “Pair-ee”?
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### Author:  [@Pitchmeister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pitchmeister)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2013, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-pronounce-foreign-landmarks-differently/667313/13 "2013-08-27T19:13:01Z")
> [@leahcim](#):
>
> Both of those are at least kind of translations of the meaning of the name. “England” is derived from “Angle Land”, and “Angleterre” is pretty much that in French. And “Les Etats Unis” is “The United States” literally.
>
> On the other hand, “Germany” in French is “Allemagne”, which derives from the name of a tribe in the region, and is not cognate with either “Germany” or “Deutschland”.
All three names, however, are derived from names of tribes that lived in the area that is now known as Germany - the Allemans, the Teutons and the Germans. Polish has yet another word (Niemcy), the Italians use both the Germans (Germania, the country) as well as the Teutons (tedesco, the language). Why do they all use different names? I’m guessing it’s probably dependent on which tribe the people who shaped the language had the most contact with.
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### Author:  [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2013, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-pronounce-foreign-landmarks-differently/667313/14 "2013-08-27T19:30:57Z")
> [@Lukeinva](#):
>
> Actually, it is “The States United” literally.
No, word order is different. “Literally” doesn’t mean “screwing grammar sideways”.
> [@](#):
>
> And, the Germans call France “Frankenreich” (have no idea why :p).
Lit. “the realm of the Franks”. So, the same as France or Francia.
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### Author:  [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-pronounce-foreign-landmarks-differently/667313/15 "2013-08-27T19:31:52Z")
> [@Lukeinva](#):
>
> Actually, it is “The States United” literally.
For suitable levels of “literally”. 🙂
In French, most adjectives are placed after the word they modify. So it is really, “States” modified by “United” ordered the natural way for the language.
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### Author:  [@leahcim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/leahcim)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2013, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-pronounce-foreign-landmarks-differently/667313/16 "2013-08-27T19:38:21Z")
> [@Smeghead](#):
>
> Plus, what communication there was from Lands Far Away was purely written. There was no telephony - all people had to go on was the written word. How were they to know that those weird Frenchies pronounced “Paris” as “Pair-ee”?
Not to mention pronunciation changes over time. The name “Paris” is derived from the Celtic tribe, the Parisii. The “s” in “Parisii” is pronounced, and I suspect that in some earlier progenitors of the French language, the “s” in Paris was pronounced, too. English could have picked up the name before the French stopped pronouncing all their terminal letters.
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### Author:  [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2013, 7:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-pronounce-foreign-landmarks-differently/667313/17 "2013-08-27T19:48:59Z")
There are a couple that I’ve never quite understood- the Flemish cities of Ghent and Bruges are actually Gent and Brugge in Flemish/Dutch, which is what’s spoken in those cities.
How did we end up calling them by the French versions, or in Ghent’s case, something else entirely?
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### Author:  [@kenobi\_65](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kenobi_65)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2013, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-pronounce-foreign-landmarks-differently/667313/18 "2013-08-27T20:13:23Z")
> [@bump](#):
>
> There are a couple that I’ve never quite understood- the Flemish cities of Ghent and Bruges are actually Gent and Brugge in Flemish/Dutch, which is what’s spoken in those cities.
>
> How did we end up calling them by the French versions, or in Ghent’s case, something else entirely?
In the case of Bruges, the Irish, of course, pronounce it:
(It’s totally NSFW, seriously, don’t even click the Spoiler box, and if you do, really, don’t even think about clicking the YouTube link, which will make your grandmother cry. 😃 )
“[fookin’ Broozh](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5lHTtF8HpCM)”. 😃
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### Author:  [@Keeve](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Keeve)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2013, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-pronounce-foreign-landmarks-differently/667313/19 "2013-08-27T20:58:57Z")
> [@Prof.Pepperwinkle](#):
>
> Tradition! That’s the way we’ve always done it, and it takes a media-based effort to change.
Or if not media-based, the media have to at least be willing to go along. Examples of recent changes:
from Peking to Beijing
from the Ukraine to Ukraine
from Calcutta to Kolkata
from Bombay to Mumbai
Anyone have examples of changes that were attempted but failed?
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### Author:  [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)
#### Post date: [August 27, 2013, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-pronounce-foreign-landmarks-differently/667313/20 "2013-08-27T21:37:21Z")
> [@Nava](#):
>
> No, word order is different. “Literally” doesn’t mean “screwing grammar sideways”.
The nice (or horrifying) thing about English is that either ordering is perfectly fine, though the post-noun modifier has a more poetic feel.
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