# Why do we say "the" in front of some countries? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [July 19, 2011, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-the-in-front-of-some-countries/589576 "2011-07-19T13:46:35Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![CheeseDonkey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecae2f/32.png) [@CheeseDonkey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CheeseDonkey)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-the-in-front-of-some-countries/589576/1 "2011-07-19T13:46:35Z")
For example, we say “the United States,” “the Ukraine,” “the Sudan,” et cetera. How come we put “the” in front of some countries, but not others? I’ve never heard of anyone refer to it as “the Canada” or “the France,” the example. ---
**Author:** ![robert\_columbia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e79b87/32.png) [@robert\_columbia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robert_columbia)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 1:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-the-in-front-of-some-countries/589576/2 "2011-07-19T13:59:33Z")
I’m too busy to answer, I’m drinking with my friend Seamus in The Ireland. ---
**Author:** ![Lobelia\_Overhill](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/54ee81/32.png) [@Lobelia\_Overhill](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lobelia_Overhill)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 2:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-the-in-front-of-some-countries/589576/3 "2011-07-19T14:00:02Z")
I’ve always thought it was a similar thing to the whole “a” or “an” debate. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-the-in-front-of-some-countries/589576/4 "2011-07-19T14:06:45Z")
I think someone explained here once that Ukraine was referred to as “the Ukraine” during the Soviet days so that the Kremlin could pretend that it was just a region of the USSR and not an independent country that had been absorbed into the Soviet state. And that now that Ukraine is an independent country, they don’t want the “the” used in the name. ---
**Author:** ![Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Tapioca\_Dextrin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tapioca_Dextrin)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 2:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-the-in-front-of-some-countries/589576/5 "2011-07-19T14:09:14Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > I’m too busy to answer, I’m drinking with my friend Seamus in The Ireland. You mean The Republic? ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-the-in-front-of-some-countries/589576/6 "2011-07-19T14:20:07Z")
Well, it is le Canada in French. ---
**Author:** ![peedin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peedin/32/14095_2.png) [@peedin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/peedin)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 2:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-the-in-front-of-some-countries/589576/7 "2011-07-19T14:27:41Z")
Along the same lines, why is it “The Ohio State University” and not “The Indiana University” or “The Illinois State University?” ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 2:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-the-in-front-of-some-countries/589576/8 "2011-07-19T14:33:44Z")
Search on “Gambia” or “Hague” to find previous threads on the general topic. > **[The Ukraine](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=332975)** > > Why is the Ukraine called the Ukraine? What does “Ukraine” mean? > **[Two Questions about The Gambia](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=474365)** > > I’m writing on topic of The Gambia currently and I can tell you lots of things about developments there over the last, say, fifty years. There’s two things, though, that I, for the life of me, couldn’t tell you, which is why I’m asking here. Why... > **[The use of "the" in place names.](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=270341)** > > This question was asked of me by my 12 year old son, and I didn’t have an answer for him, so I’m turning it over to the teeming millions. Some place names are preceeded by “the” but not others. For example we say \*the \* Pacific Ocean, \*the \* Brazos... ---
**Author:** ![Kent\_Clark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kent_clark/32/105_2.png) [@Kent\_Clark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kent_Clark)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-the-in-front-of-some-countries/589576/9 "2011-07-19T14:51:41Z")
> [@peedin](#): > > Along the same lines, why is it “The Ohio State University” and not “The Indiana University” or “The Illinois State University?” Asked, answered, beaten to death, risen from the dead and finally shut down [here.](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=275486&highlight=Ohio+State) ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 2:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-the-in-front-of-some-countries/589576/10 "2011-07-19T14:53:25Z")
Sometimes it’s because the country name is an adjective phrase: “The United States of America;” “The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland;” “the Netherlands” (i.e., the low lands, presumably defined by reference to an inland observer in France or Germany). This is controversial in the case of Ukraine, because there are apparently some sources that suggest that “Ukraine” derives from a Slavic term meaning “borderland,” defined presumably from a Russian point of view. Many Ukrainians resent being called “the Ukraine,” because it supposedly implies that their country is nothing more than Russia’s borderland. I have heard that “the Gambia” is used because it is named after the river, which doesn’t seem like a very satisfying answer. The Thompson Twins sang about “the Lebanon,” but that may have just been artistic license. ---
**Author:** ![Oswald\_Bastable](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/oswald_bastable/32/214_2.png) [@Oswald\_Bastable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Oswald_Bastable)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-the-in-front-of-some-countries/589576/11 "2011-07-19T15:08:01Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > The Thompson Twins sang about “the Lebanon,” but that may have just been artistic license. Just fighting ignorance - I believe you meant _The_ Human League. OB ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-the-in-front-of-some-countries/589576/12 "2011-07-19T15:16:31Z")
> [@CheeseDonkey](#): > > For example, we say “the United States,” “the Ukraine,” “the Sudan,” et cetera. How come we put “the” in front of some countries, but not others? I’ve never heard of anyone refer to it as “the Canada” or “the France,” the example. Vive la France! ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-the-in-front-of-some-countries/589576/13 "2011-07-19T15:24:01Z")
> [@robert\_columbia](#): > > I’m too busy to answer, I’m drinking with my friend Seamus in The Ireland. He’s not your friend with the AIDS, is he? ---
**Author:** ![elmwood](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmwood/32/3060_2.png) [@elmwood](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elmwood)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-the-in-front-of-some-countries/589576/14 "2011-07-19T15:26:28Z")
> [@peedin](#): > > Along the same lines, why is it “The Ohio State University” and not “The Indiana University” or “The Illinois State University?” As a University at Buffalo graduate, I have no idea. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-the-in-front-of-some-countries/589576/15 "2011-07-19T15:30:51Z")
> [@elmwood](#): > > He’s not your friend with the AIDS, is he? or was it the clap? ---
**Author:** ![Blaster\_Master](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/cab0a1/32.png) [@Blaster\_Master](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blaster_Master)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-the-in-front-of-some-countries/589576/16 "2011-07-19T15:32:07Z")
> [@Tom\_Tildrum](#): > > Sometimes it’s because the country name is an adjective phrase: “The United States of America;” “The United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland;” “the Netherlands” (i.e., the low lands, presumably defined by reference to an inland observer in France or Germany). More or less this. I might say I’m from the US, but I wouldn’t say I’m from the America unless I wanted to sound pretentious. It’s the same for the UK vs. Britain/England, or the Netherlands vs. Holland. I’ve never heard anyone say the Sudan, or anything else The Ukraine is the only real outlier that I’m familiar with, but that seems to be a special case from upthread. The few Ukrainians I’ve met simply said they were from Ukraine, but I don’t recall ever being corrected or them acting offended when I mentioned the Ukraine. Frankly, it never really occured to me that they were a special case and I suppose I always took them not using the definite article as simply a part of their speech pattern as, IME, the use of definite articles by native speakers of Slavic languages seems to be inconsistent compared to a native English speaker. ETA: There’s also the Czech Republic but, again, those I’ve met from there just say they’re from Czech, and it only really gets the article because we tend to use the full name for the country, whereas it makes no sense to say the Czech. So that’s probably mostly along the normal case except that the name comes first rather than the adjective. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 3:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-the-in-front-of-some-countries/589576/17 "2011-07-19T15:34:52Z")
In the case of the Ukraine and the Sudan (and perhaps the Netherlands) those names actually originally applied to regions rather than to individual countries (compare e.g. the Great Plains, the Pampas, the Sahara). The “Sudan” for example referred (and still does) to a wide area of savanna to the south of the Sahara proper. The name of the country is just “Sudan” with the “the.” Other posters have explained about the Ukraine/Ukraine. ---
**Author:** ![Tom\_Tildrum](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/e95f7d/32.png) [@Tom\_Tildrum](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tom_Tildrum)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 3:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-the-in-front-of-some-countries/589576/18 "2011-07-19T15:35:43Z")
> [@Oswald\_Bastable](#): > > Just fighting ignorance - I believe you meant _The_ Human League. > OB D’oh! I would’ve sworn… Thanks for catching that. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-the-in-front-of-some-countries/589576/19 "2011-07-19T15:41:50Z")
“The Ukraine” and “the Lebanon” are often used t designate geographic or ethnographic regions roughly but not precisely coterminous with the nations identified by the substantive without the article. Similarly “the Sudan” was a savannah-like region south of the Sahara which included the Anglo-Egyptian Sudan, now Sudan and South Sudan, and French Sudan, now Mali. ---
**Author:** ![isaiahrobinson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/85e7bf/32.png) [@isaiahrobinson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/isaiahrobinson)\ **Post date:** [July 19, 2011, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-the-in-front-of-some-countries/589576/20 "2011-07-19T17:09:42Z")
I was going to make the point that a few posters have already just made. There’s three reasons why countries have “the” in front of their name. The third one is becoming less common - it’s mostly older people who still use terms like ‘the Lebanon’, because it dates from the period before they became official countries after independence. **1) It precedes a description of the country**: The United States of America, the United Kingdom, the Federated States of Micronesia. **2) The country name is plural:** The Netherlands, the Bahamas, the Philippines. **3) The geographical area used to have the same name as the modern country:** The Ukraine, the Sudan, the Lebanon, the Gambia, the Congo. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-the-in-front-of-some-countries/589576.md?page=2)