# Why do we say "you are" instead of "you is"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 11, 2020, 8:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-you-are-instead-of-you-is/849298 "2020-03-11T20:27:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-you-are-instead-of-you-is/849298/21 "2020-03-20T17:43:37Z")
> [@Ruken](#): > > This article discusses the etymology: [Indo-European copula - Wikipedia](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Indo-European_copula) If I’m following all of the technical terms correctly, it appears this feature is not common, even in other Germanic languages. But it’s apparently not completely unique to English; it appears Dutch has the same feature. ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-you-are-instead-of-you-is/849298/22 "2020-03-20T18:22:16Z")
Wiki mentions some (apparently!?) mixed-up polite forms in German, like “Das wissen Herr Bürgermeister schon” and “Was geruhen Euer Majestät zu befehlen?”, but English is English and German is German, and furthermore both languages are constantly evolving, so one cannot necessarily copy the usage from one language to the other. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-you-are-instead-of-you-is/849298/23 "2020-03-20T21:28:07Z")
I forgot about this, obviously the “thou” conjugation most familiar to many of us from exposure to the KJV bible. Originally, though, it was something like “thou bist”. I’ve seen variants of this construction in Victorian era novels, usually spoken by household servants who came from remote parts of England. I don’t know when “art” supplanted “bist” though. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-you-are-instead-of-you-is/849298/24 "2020-03-20T21:36:41Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > Does German really have more strong and/or irregular verbs than English, at least in common use? Some numbers would be helpful. A superficial glance at Wikipedia claims German has “more than 200 strong and irregular verbs” and English has “many irregular verbs, approaching 200 in normal use—and significantly more if prefixed forms are counted”. Sounds pretty much the same. As **Squink’s** chart shows, German does have a few more, although it’s obvious that many cognate words on English decline similarly which is helpful. A particular complication with certain irregular verbs in German is that the third and second person singular present may also have a change of vowel. Like so much of German grammar, all this becomes easy if you study, listen to, or read the language long enough, but that’s of little use to beginners. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 10:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-you-are-instead-of-you-is/849298/25 "2020-03-20T22:52:26Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > I forgot about this, obviously the “thou” conjugation most familiar to many of us from exposure to the KJV bible. > > Originally, though, it was something like “thou bist”. I’ve seen variants of this construction in Victorian era novels, usually spoken by household servants who came from remote parts of England. > > I don’t know when “art” supplanted “bist” though. I am not convinced that it did. ‘Bist’ is a dialect word (from German du bist)heard still in Somerset (mainly Bristol) and Shropshire. The phrase ‘thou art’ still survives in parts of Northern England, notably Yorkshire, although it is frequently contracted to ‘thart’ ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [March 20, 2020, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-you-are-instead-of-you-is/849298/26 "2020-03-20T23:41:48Z")
> [@bob\_2](#): > > I am not convinced that it did. ‘Bist’ is a dialect word (from German du bist)heard still in Somerset (mainly Bristol) and Shropshire. If you look at an _Old_ English [grammar chart](http://people.umass.edu/sharris/in/GrammarChart.html), it is clear that (e)art and bist corresponded to two different verbs with slightly different meanings, so, naively, it seems that the use of one form was eventually pushed aside by the other? But for sure there were and are different dialects of English. ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-you-are-instead-of-you-is/849298/27 "2020-03-21T00:50:05Z")
The various conjugated forms of “to be” in English come from three different verbs meaning some different variations on “to be”. They were something like “beon”, “wesan”, and “es”. They got smashed together into the modern conjugated forms of “to be” in English. Really, to understand it, you have to be all the way back to Proto-Indo-European. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-you-are-instead-of-you-is/849298/28 "2020-03-21T03:44:28Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > The following things have changed since then: “Ye”, which was used in slightly different circumstances than “you”, dropped out of use. Then “you” began to be used for both plural and singular second person. “Art” and “wert”, which were used with “thou”, also dropped out of use and were replaced with “are” and “were”. “Ye” was originally the [nominative form](https://www.etymonline.com/word/ye#etymonline_v_4942); the verbal context would be the same as with other nominative pronouns. Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 4:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-you-are-instead-of-you-is/849298/29 "2020-03-21T04:23:55Z")
In the South in the US, you also have the second-person plural “y’all”… 😉 (As much as that is one of those “You might be a red neck” words, that’s how language happens.) ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-you-are-instead-of-you-is/849298/30 "2020-03-21T04:48:38Z")
“You” was once the second person plural while “Thou” was the singular. Now it does duty for both but retains the plural helping verb. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 5:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-you-are-instead-of-you-is/849298/31 "2020-03-21T05:00:34Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > In the South in the US, you also have the second-person plural “y’all”… 😉 > > (As much as that is one of those “You might be a red neck” words, that’s how language happens.) Just as the plural word “you” began to be used as a singular with “y’all” becoming an unambiguous plural; I’ve read — at SDMB probably! — that “y’all” is now often used as a singular, with “all y’all” now the unambiguous plural! ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-you-are-instead-of-you-is/849298/32 "2020-03-21T05:20:16Z")
> [@DPRK](#): > > If you look at an _Old_ English [grammar chart](http://people.umass.edu/sharris/in/GrammarChart.html), it is clear that (e)art and bist corresponded to two different verbs with slightly different meanings, so, naively, it seems that the use of one form was eventually pushed aside by the other? But for sure there were and are different dialects of English. Old English had two copulas: [_bēon_ and _wesan_](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/wesan#Old_English). “The verb ‘to be’ in Old English was suppletive, and used forms from at least three different roots. There were two distinct present stems, for which _wesan_ and _bēon_ were the two infinitive forms. The present \*bēon \*was used to express permanent truths (the ‘gnomic present’), while \*wesan \*was used for the present participle and the preterite. They shared the same past tense forms.” _Þū [bist](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/bist)_ was from _bēon_, while _þū eart_ was from _wesan_. _Bist_—British dialectal: Bristol, West Country, Northern England. Where bist goin’ (Where are you going?) How bist? (How are you?) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 1:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-you-are-instead-of-you-is/849298/33 "2020-03-21T13:23:02Z")
In post #27, I wrote: \> Really, to understand it, you have to be all the way back to Proto-Indo-European. I meant: \> Really, to understand it, you have to go all the way back to Proto-Indo-European. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-you-are-instead-of-you-is/849298/34 "2020-03-21T15:45:07Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > In post #27, I wrote: > > \> Really, to understand it, you have to be all the way back to Proto-Indo-European. > > I meant: > > \> Really, to understand it, you have to go all the way back to Proto-Indo-European. Ah, you had it right the first time. If only we could time travel and hear real Proto-Indo-European spoken and find out if the reconstructions are right or not! ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 4:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-you-are-instead-of-you-is/849298/35 "2020-03-21T16:40:07Z")
Also, you may wonder about the idea of three words (beon, wesan, es) being combined into a single word meaning “be” in present-day English. That has happened in other cases. The reason why the verb “to go” has some parts of its conjugations looking like “go” and some looking like “went” is because it’s another case of two verbs getting smashed together. “Went” used to be the past tense of “wend”. The past tense of “wend” is now “wended” (and “wend” is now not common), while the form “went” has become the past tense of “go”. “Go” and “be” are very common words in English, and perhaps this is the only case where this smashing together can happen. Does anyone have other examples of verbs having their conjugations smashed together, in English or in other languages? ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-you-are-instead-of-you-is/849298/36 "2020-03-21T18:15:16Z")
> [@Wendell\_Wagner](#): > > Does anyone have other examples of verbs having their conjugations smashed together, in English or in other languages? English has “be” and “go”. The Wikipedia [overview page](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suppletion) lists examples from a few languages; there is also [this list](https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/Category:Suppletive_verbs_by_language) (which for English also lists “wreak” in case people use “wrought” instead of “wreaked” or “wroke”) ---
**Author:** ![Wendell\_Wagner](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/8491ac/32.png) [@Wendell\_Wagner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wendell_Wagner)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 6:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-you-are-instead-of-you-is/849298/37 "2020-03-21T18:54:08Z")
Thank you, DPRK. I didn’t realize that there was a technical term for it like “suppletion”. i’ve known about this phenomenon for some time, but I didn’t know the name for it. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [March 21, 2020, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-you-are-instead-of-you-is/849298/38 "2020-03-21T19:16:42Z")
Off-topic but … interesting? Discussion of the “are” in “you are” is interesting, but perhaps we should discuss the “you” as well. 😛 The large number of Norse words in Middle English deserves explanation. The standard etymologies connect Middle English _ye/yu_ to Old English _ge/eow/eow_ but mightn’t they come from Old Norse _ér/yðr/yðr_ instead? It’s undisputed that _they/them_ derive from Old Norse _þeir/þá/þeim_. Many words in Middle English have cognates in both Old English and Old Norse, and are shown as deriving from Old English, but the serious work by Emonds and Faarlund disputes that. Some ME words (although they don’t mention ‘you’) with cognates in both OE and ON may have come from ON. These linguists think Middle English had an interesting political origin. Prior to the Norman Conquest, the Scandinavians were often predominant (note that the mother(_) and stepfather of King Edward the Confessor were both Danes); and they retained some form of their Norse language. (_ Or rather, mother Emma was the daughter of a Danish woman and a Norman Duke.) [“There was [in the 11th century] the same tongue in [the Norse or Danelaw portion of] England as in Norway and Denmark.”](https://books.google.co.th/books?id=y3jyCQAAQBAJ&pg=PT207&lpg=PT207) But the arrival of the Normans after 1066, plunging both English and Norse into poverty, led to … > [@Emonds and Faarlund](#): > > … solidarity between the two now dispossessed Germanic populations in this area [and] provided a strong impetus for fashioning a single language out of what had been two… > > In the East Midlands and North, the two linguistic communities must have rather set about after the Conquest, partly consciously, forging a common vocabulary; in the face of the hostile French-speaking Norman overlords and their military, common people wanted/needed to talk alike rather than differently. This resulted in a new grammatical lexicon with, highly unusually, more or less equal shares of grammatical words ---
**Author:** ![DPRK](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4491bb/32.png) [@DPRK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DPRK)\ **Post date:** [March 22, 2020, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-you-are-instead-of-you-is/849298/39 "2020-03-22T20:33:26Z")
I am tempted to find a way to slip some of those miserably neglected verb forms back into conversation. “Thence I yode and never went back” or something. ---
**Author:** ![AmyPang](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/278dde/32.png) [@AmyPang](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AmyPang)\ **Post date:** [March 23, 2020, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-you-are-instead-of-you-is/849298/40 "2020-03-23T06:35:12Z")
In the past, “thou” and “Ye” were used as second-person pronouns. “Thou” is singular and “ye” is plural. When time passes, “thou” died and “ye” become “You” and taken for all the purposes. So, “ye”= “You” is always plural. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-you-are-instead-of-you-is/849298.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-say-you-are-instead-of-you-is/849298.md?page=3)