# Why do we still have Daylight Saving Time? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [April 2, 2006, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-still-have-daylight-saving-time/350959 "2006-04-02T17:30:59Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [April 3, 2006, 10:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-still-have-daylight-saving-time/350959/21 "2006-04-03T22:41:12Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > Hmm? When we “Fall back” an hour, I have to get up an hour earlier WRT to the sun and now all of a sudden it’s dark outside when my alarm clock goes off. That’s my experience, anyway. And “Spring forward” is the reverse. No. Don’t you notice that now the sun rises later in the morning than it did last week? When we “fall back”, you get up an hour later, not earlier. That’s why “falling back” is easier on the body-- you gain an extra hour of sleep on that day. ---
**Author:** ![Sleel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-still-have-daylight-saving-time/350959/22 "2006-04-04T02:21:46Z")
The most widely cited reason for using Daylight Saving Time is energy savings. The first country to institute it was Germany during WWI to reduce energy consumption, though the original idea goes back to the late 1700s. Obviously equatorial and tropical countries have no use for it, but temperate latitudes can benefit from it. Japan is the only major industrial country that doesn’t use some form of daylight saving time. > [@](#): > > In Japan, Daylight saving was introduced after World War II by the U.S. occupation but was dispensed with in 1952, following opposition from farmers. Despite efforts by the Ministry of International Trade and Industry to have daylight saving introduced to cut Japan’s energy consumption, opposition from farmers and the Ministry of Education (who was concerned that lighter evenings would entice school children from their homework) has continued to win the day. > [source](http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/g.html) This site has several pages of information, if you’re really interested in the subject. Below, I quote from a couple of their other pages too. Citations for DST energy savings: > [@](#): > > The United States adopted the Daylight Savings Time plan in 1918, but repealed it in 1991. It also observed daylight time from Feb. 9, 1942 to Sept. 30, 1945, to conserve energy during World War II. After the war, many states established some sort of daylight savings time. Beginning in 1967, nearly all the states went on daylight time from the last Sunday in April to the last Sunday in October. In the 1970s, during the oil crisis, Congress enacted daylight time from Jan 6 to Oct. 27, 1974, and from Feb. 23 to Oct 26, 1975, again to conserve energy. Since 1987, daylight time has begun on the first Sunday in April. > Reference: New York Times and Cox News Service May 7, 1999 > [source](http://www.beaglesoft.com/mainfaqtime.htm) > [@](#): > > Studies done by the U.S. Department of Transportation show that Daylight Saving Time trims the entire country’s electricity usage by a small but significant amount, about one percent each day, because less electricity is used for lighting and appliances. > [source](http://webexhibits.org/daylightsaving/c.html) > [@](#): > > Following the 1973 oil embargo, the U.S. Congress extended Daylight Saving Time to 8 months, rather than the normal six months. During that time, the U.S. Department of Transportation found that observing Daylight Saving Time in March and April saved the equivalent in energy of 10,000 barrels of oil each day - a total of 600,000 barrels in each of those two years. > > Likewise, in 1986, Daylight Saving Time moved from the last Sunday in April to the first Sunday in April. No change was made to the ending date of the last Sunday in October. Adding the entire month of April to Daylight Saving Time is estimated to save the U.S. about 300,000 barrels of oil each year. (page 6 of the previous site) I find it interesting that someone actually wrote a [book](http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1593760531/104-7188430-1903950?v=glance&n=283155) about DST. Apparently there’s enough history and controversy to support a short volume on the subject. ---
**Author:** ![TokyoBayer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tokyobayer/32/13989_2.png) [@TokyoBayer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TokyoBayer)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 2:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-still-have-daylight-saving-time/350959/23 "2006-04-04T02:54:27Z")
I’m a later riser, so I hate not having DST in Japan. The sun is out really early and is wasted on me since I’m still asleep. ---
**Author:** ![Sleel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-still-have-daylight-saving-time/350959/24 "2006-04-04T04:55:09Z")
> [@TokyoPlayer](#): > > I’m a later riser, so I hate not having DST in Japan. The sun is out really early and is wasted on me since I’m still asleep. I’m a night person too. I’m perfectly happy when I can go to bed at 2:00 AM and wake up around 9:00-10:00 AM. Summer in Japan drives me frigging nuts because I’m used to US style DST. I end up waking up at 5:30 or 6:00 in the morning sometimes because my body expects a time shift even when there is none. I hate waking up that early because it gives me less awake time when I’m home from work and can actually enjoy it. ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 7:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-still-have-daylight-saving-time/350959/25 "2006-04-04T07:12:01Z")
Count me as another J-Doper who wishes we had DST. In summer the sunrise is starting by four in the frigging morning, and it’s still completely dark by 6pm. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 4, 2006, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-still-have-daylight-saving-time/350959/26 "2006-04-04T14:45:08Z")
Cecil speaks: [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a910906.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a910906.html) “The real purpose is to conserve energy. You want to line up the hours of daylight with the hours most people are up and about. That way they’ll use the lights less and we’ll waste less oil, coal, etc.” Thus, not only does it save money, it lowers our dependence on foreign oil, reduces pollution, and reduces global warming. In other words, it’s a great idea. ---
**Author:** ![BoringDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BoringDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoringDad)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 2:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-still-have-daylight-saving-time/350959/27 "2006-04-06T02:19:21Z")
> [@DrDeth](#): > > Cecil speaks: > [http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a910906.html](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a910906.html) > > “The real purpose is to conserve energy. You want to line up the hours of daylight with the hours most people are up and about. That way they’ll use the lights less and we’ll waste less oil, coal, etc.” > > Thus, not only does it save money, it lowers our dependence on foreign oil, reduces pollution, and reduces global warming. In other words, it’s a great idea. Yeah, and that’s a bad Cecil column. There is no evidence out there now that daylight savings saves money in the modern world. May have saved money in WW I when factories were lit with daylight during the day, but I have never been in a modren office or factory that uses less electric lighting during the day. I say if you want to be active in the daytime, then just get up and be active before work. Don’t force me to muck up my schedule to suit your needs. If the Commies took over the US and dictated “Everyone will now get up one hour earlier until we say different!” there would be blood in the streets. But that is exactly what we meekly accept every year. ---
**Author:** ![Sleel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/73ab20/32.png) [@Sleel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sleel)\ **Post date:** [April 6, 2006, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-still-have-daylight-saving-time/350959/28 "2006-04-06T04:46:00Z")
> [@BoringDad](#): > > Yeah, and that’s a bad Cecil column. There is no evidence out there now that daylight savings saves money in the modern world. May have saved money in WW I when factories were lit with daylight during the day, but I have never been in a modren office or factory that uses less electric lighting during the day. > > I say if you want to be active in the daytime, then just get up and be active before work. Don’t force me to muck up my schedule to suit your needs. If the Commies took over the US and dictated “Everyone will now get up one hour earlier until we say different!” there would be blood in the streets. But that is exactly what we meekly accept every year. Yes, there is evidence. Check my third cite and follow the link for more information. Polls also show that most people like DST. More information about that on the same page as the info about energy savings. If you’re feeling really ambitious, you could look up the US Department of Transportation report on it and look for weak points, but I’m willing to accept their conclusions. If you don’t like it, fine, you don’t like it. I can’t argue with your personal feelings. Farmers don’t appreciate it much either. A majority of other people do like having DST, however, so there’s no need for force on the part of the “Commies” or the US government. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 10:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-still-have-daylight-saving-time/350959/29 "2006-04-07T22:51:59Z")
> [@Sleel](#): > > Japan is the only major industrial country that doesn’t use some form of daylight saving time. Must…move…to…Nippon. ---
**Author:** ![foolsguinea](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/foolsguinea/32/14751_2.png) [@foolsguinea](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/foolsguinea)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-still-have-daylight-saving-time/350959/30 "2006-04-07T23:06:28Z")
The thing is, DST works for a specific lifestyle with specific agenda. It works for people who want to wake around dawn, work 8 hours, then have long afternoons in the summer. It’s also nice for those who make early morning deliveries, since they can keep from arriving too much after those who actually wake with the sun. But even that is geared toward the convenience of dawn-risers. Work the night shift? Evening shift? It’s just a pain in the butt to have your schedule thrown off once a year to make happy those weirdos who can’t sleep when it’s light out. Like to do outdoors stuff on summer mornings, before it gets hot? Well, you get an hour less time to do it. Yay. :rolleyes: Or are you just someone who likes “12 noon” to bear some vague resemblance to high noon? Nope, sorry, you’re too rational &\* consistent\* for this country. Now, if DST were in place a minority of the time, that would still be silly, but fine. If (big IF) society is really better off resetting the clocks twice a year, sending commuters out to drive jetlagged into each other for a week, for the sake of sanity, let the “Standard Time” be the normal, typical, standard time. But if it’s a majority of the time, then the problem it’s “solving” is not in our clocks, but in our schedules. You want to work from 8-4 instead of 9-5? Fine! Go ahead! It’s reasonable, it’s symmetrical even! Just call a spade a spade & leave the rest of us alone! ---
**Author:** ![BoringDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BoringDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoringDad)\ **Post date:** [April 7, 2006, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-still-have-daylight-saving-time/350959/31 "2006-04-07T23:52:24Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > The thing is, DST works for a specific lifestyle with specific agenda. It works for people who want to wake around dawn, work 8 hours, then have long afternoons in the summer. It’s also nice for those who make early morning deliveries, since they can keep from arriving too much after those who actually wake with the sun. But even that is geared toward the convenience of dawn-risers. Preach it Brother! (Sister?) Let the free market decide. It’s supposed to be godlike in everything else, let it decide this. America does not save any energy. IF energy is to be saved by this, individuals and companies save the energy, not America. If a company feels that they can save energy by having their employees come in an hour earlier, then they are free to force them to. DST important to you? Then only work at a company that changes to summer hours. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-still-have-daylight-saving-time/350959/32 "2006-04-08T15:38:56Z")
> [@Digital Stimulus](#): > > Then, on moving to IN, I was pleased to find that there was no DST there either. Which, of course, changed for the first time today as mandated by new state laws. And if my understanding of the news was correct, it was most assuredly _not_ wildly popular – it had to be pushed through by “your man Mitch” (that’s the governor and his election catch-phrase; I refuse to subscribe to the idea that he’s “my man”). > > Bleah. I think DST should be abolished. Period. Perhaps when I get my degree I’ll look for jobs in AZ… The problem with Indiana is that it’s in the wrong time zone. Whoever decided Indiana should be on Eastern time was an idiot. Think of it this way: if the world has 24 time zones (it doesn’t, but pretend it does; it’s close enough), they should each have a width of roughly 15 degrees of longitude. The GMT zone encompasses the zero meridian, so it should theoretically extend from 7.5° east to 7.5° west. Five time zones west of that is the North American Eastern Time Zone, which should extend roughly from 67.5° west to 82.5° west, then Central from 82.5° to 97.5° west, Mountain from 97.5° to 112.5° west, then Pacific from 112.5° west to 127.5° west. The actual boundaries differ for political reasons, some of which make more sense than others. Indiana, like Alabama almost due south of it, is almost entirely between 85° and 88° west. Alabama observes Central time, as do western and central Tennessee and western Kentucky. Indiana, OTOH, is for some reason in the Eastern time zone. This means that it stays dark awfully late in the morning there, which is exacerbated by DST. If they’d just move over a time zone, then both their standard and daylight times would be pretty much like everyone else’s, and they could stop getting all worked up about it. ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-still-have-daylight-saving-time/350959/33 "2006-04-08T15:53:37Z")
> [@BoringDad](#): > > Preach it Brother! (Sister?) > Let the free market decide. It’s supposed to be godlike in everything else, let it decide this. I’ll save the debate about the doglike powers of the free market for another time, but why stop with DST? Why not abolish official time zones altogether, and let the free market decide what time it is - let everybody decide for themselves what time it is at their home/office/whatever? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Digital\_Stimulus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/aeb1de/32.png) [@Digital\_Stimulus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Digital_Stimulus)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-still-have-daylight-saving-time/350959/34 "2006-04-08T15:59:29Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > The problem with Indiana is that it’s in the wrong time zone. Whoever decided Indiana should be on Eastern time was an idiot. Man, am I with you there. For some reason, the DOT (I think; might’ve been some other governmental agency) forced St. Joseph county to be on Eastern time, even though the majority of the popular vote wanted Central. So we follow NY time rather than Chicago. Ugh. (Not having followed the details of the process, corrections and clarifications are welcome.) ---
**Author:** ![BoringDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BoringDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoringDad)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-still-have-daylight-saving-time/350959/35 "2006-04-08T16:28:29Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > I’ll save the debate about the doglike powers of the free market for another time, but why stop with DST? Why not abolish official time zones altogether, and let the free market decide what time it is - let everybody decide for themselves what time it is at their home/office/whatever? 😃 Why? Because that would be silly and unworkable. Businesses deciding to open at 7 am instead of 8 am is a far cry from businesses deciding what time zone they are in. Any more easy questions? ---
**Author:** ![RTFirefly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c77e96/32.png) [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)\ **Post date:** [April 8, 2006, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-still-have-daylight-saving-time/350959/36 "2006-04-08T21:22:19Z")
> [@BoringDad](#): > > Why? Because that would be silly and unworkable. Similarly with letting a bunch of individual employers’ decisions replacing DST, just a lot less so. Nobody wants to be the one to tell their employees they have to show up at 7am when everyone else’s workday doesn’t start until 8. But if we _move the clock itself_, so that everybody and nobody are making that adjustment, it works and the vast majority of non-Indianans are very happy with it. ---
**Author:** ![BoringDad](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ad7895/32.png) [@BoringDad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BoringDad)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2006, 1:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-still-have-daylight-saving-time/350959/37 "2006-04-09T01:03:09Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#): > > Similarly with letting a bunch of individual employers’ decisions replacing DST, just a lot less so. Nobody wants to be the one to tell their employees they have to show up at 7am when everyone else’s workday doesn’t start until 8. Different businesses having different start times would be unworkable? That would be amazing to tell the people in my town where I go to work at 7:30, my neighbor at 8:30, my friend at 6:30, and I knowplenty of peopel who don’t start until 9. Why would nobody want to be the one to tell their employees they had to come in an hour earlier? You are telling me that most people want that extra hour of daylight after work. Shouldn’t workers be lining up to find a job where they can go to work an hour earlier? ---
**Author:** ![doreen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/858c86/32.png) [@doreen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/doreen)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2006, 4:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-still-have-daylight-saving-time/350959/38 "2006-04-09T04:17:31Z")
> [@BoringDad](#): > > Different businesses having different start times would be unworkable? That would be amazing to tell the people in my town where I go to work at 7:30, my neighbor at 8:30, my friend at 6:30, and I knowplenty of peopel who don’t start until 9. > > Why would nobody want to be the one to tell their employees they had to come in an hour earlier? You are telling me that most people want that extra hour of daylight after work. Shouldn’t workers be lining up to find a job where they can go to work an hour earlier? The different starting times in themselves aren’t unworkable- as it is, some people start work at 7, others at 8. Some businesses open at 9, others at 10. The problems will come when some places change their hours twice a year and others don’t. Like if my job hours change from 8-4 to 7-3 in the spring but my kid’s daycare center still opens up at 7. Or the daycare changes their hours to 6am- 5 pm- but I’m still working 9-5. And it won’t just be daycare centers- it will be everything that people might want to do before or after work on a fairly regular schedule- taking classes, joining a bowling league, joining a gym. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2006, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-still-have-daylight-saving-time/350959/39 "2006-04-09T07:08:49Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > The thing is, DST works for a specific lifestyle with specific agenda. It works for people who want to wake around dawn, work 8 hours, then have long afternoons in the summer. It’s also nice for those who make early morning deliveries, since they can keep from arriving too much after those who actually wake with the sun. But even that is geared toward the convenience of dawn-risers. No. It’s not there at all for anyone’s “lifestyle”. :rolleyes: It’s there to save electricity, thus save $$, reduce our dependence on foriegn oil,and help reduce Greenhouse gas emissions. And, \*Cecil \*sez so. It’s good for the Economy _and_ the Environment. The fact that it is _also_ nice for a majority of the dudes who work is a side benefit. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [April 9, 2006, 7:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-still-have-daylight-saving-time/350959/40 "2006-04-09T07:11:01Z")
> [@BoringDad](#): > > Yeah, and that’s a bad Cecil column. There is no evidence out there now that daylight savings saves money in the modern world. May have saved money in WW I when factories were lit with daylight during the day, but I have never been in a modren office or factory that uses less electric lighting during the day. Well, there’s my cite, it’s from\* Cecil\* himself. Which around here is just about golden. (psst- what’s the name of this Message board?). Where’s your cite that sez otherwise? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-still-have-daylight-saving-time/350959.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-still-have-daylight-saving-time/350959.md?page=3)