Why do we (the U.S.) have 5 seperate military branches?

[Chronos]

1)That would mean all air operations are sea-based, which is obviously false

Just because a plane can operate from a carrier doesn’t mean it always does.

But in any event, don’t put too much weight on anything I say here: A nerd I am, but not a military nerd.
And Elendil’s Heir, I know it’s not what you meant, but I parsed that sentence as meaning that the Thunderbolts were kicking and screaming. Which is probably pretty accurate, too.

[Mr_Smashy]

@Chronos

Quoth dtilque:I added the weasel word because I thought there might be some aircraft operated by both services (wasn’t that supposed to be the idea behind the Joint Strike Fighter?). But even there, I imagine that there are significant modifications to the basic design for carrier operation.

As for other militaries which don’t make the distinction, I understand that they just make all of their planes carrier-capable, and just don’t worry about the specialized missions that can only be performed by non-carrier aircraft. That’s what they have us for, after all.

Speaking as an exec for a few Defense contractors over the last couple decades, this is exactly right. It’s all about the money. For example, do we really need the Navy’s BAMS, the Air Force Global Hawk, the IC’s predator, etc, for what is essentially the same mission?

JSF is supposed to (actually, undoubtedly will) create those efficiencies, although probably not as many as they thought. The real bang for the buck will be with FMS - they’ve talked a bunch of allies into buying into the concept and kicking into the kitty, greatly amortizing the R&D. Sort of like GM and Toyota selling the same car, called a Geo and Corolla respectively - virtually the same frame, engine, etc.

But each service wants their own money. Does the Air Force really need a special forces group (for downed-pilot rescue supposedly, but let’s face it, there is almost always a MEF in the neighborhood).

It’s 100x worse in the IC. Do we need ONI, DIA, INSCOM, etc plus an overarching DNI bureaucracy? Do we really need an NRO *and *NGA? In my position, I see a lot of thieir respective products on A Space and JWICS, they have a lot of duplication.

[Loach]

For good reason the Coast Guard is not a military branch. It falls under the Department of Homeland Security not the Defense Department. For one thing the CG has a law enforcement mission which the Navy can not do by law.

[Elendil_s_Heir]

@Chronos

…And Elendil’s Heir, I know it’s not what you meant, but I parsed that sentence as meaning that the Thunderbolts were kicking and screaming. Which is probably pretty accurate, too.

It’s so nice to be right on two levels!

[Dissonance]

@Elendil_s_Heir

I knew someone would say that. If you look at the procurement history of the A-10 Thunderbolt, though, you’ll see that the Air Force had to be dragged into getting it kicking and screaming. It was the Army that really, really wanted them overhead.

That and the Air Force wanted to get rid of them really badly; before Desert Storm they wanted them replaced with shiny supersonic A-16s, a modified F-16. Ah, the good old days:

The Army argued that the Key West agreement of 1948 (under which they were prohibited from operating fixed-wing combat aircraft) was now obsolete, and that the USAF’s A-10’s should be turned over to them for use alongside AH-64 Apache helicopters. In 1990, Congress decreed that some USAF A-10A’s and OV-10 Broncos be turned over to the Army and Marine Corps beginning in 1991.

However, all of these plans came to naught on November 26th, 1990, when the USAF was ordered to retain two wings of A-10 aircraft for the CAS mission. No order for the A-16 was ever placed.

[Clark_K]

@Mr_Smashy

Speaking as an exec for a few Defense contractors over the last couple decades, this is exactly right. It’s all about the money. For example, do we really need the Navy’s BAMS, the Air Force Global Hawk, the IC’s predator, etc, for what is essentially the same mission?

JSF is supposed to (actually, undoubtedly will) create those efficiencies, although probably not as many as they thought. The real bang for the buck will be with FMS - they’ve talked a bunch of allies into buying into the concept and kicking into the kitty, greatly amortizing the R&D. Sort of like GM and Toyota selling the same car, called a Geo and Corolla respectively - virtually the same frame, engine, etc.

But each service wants their own money. Does the Air Force really need a special forces group (for downed-pilot rescue supposedly, but let’s face it, there is almost always a MEF in the neighborhood).

It’s 100x worse in the IC. Do we need ONI, DIA, INSCOM, etc plus an overarching DNI bureaucracy? Do we really need an NRO *and *NGA? In my position, I see a lot of thieir respective products on A Space and JWICS, they have a lot of duplication.

DTAMAOAUJFWU?*
*Do those acronyms mean anything or are you just fucking with us?

[Tim_T-Bonham.net]

@Mr_Smashy

It’s 100x worse in the IC. Do we need ONI, DIA, INSCOM, etc plus an overarching DNI bureaucracy? Do we really need an NRO *and *NGA? In my position, I see a lot of thieir respective products on A Space and JWICS, they have a lot of duplication.

I know some of these, because my nephew works at one of them.

IC = Intelligence Community
ONI = Office of Naval Intelligence
DIA = Defense Intelligence Agency
INSCOM = Intelligence and Security Command (Army)
DNI = Defense National Intelligence

[Farmer_Jane]

@Alessan

Joining the Army and the Navy doesn’t mean the sailors will suddenly be asked to drive tanks, you know. I mean, it’s not as if Air Force intelligence officers know how to fly planes or program computers - everyone has their own duties and qualifications. The only thing that will change is that some redundancies will be eliminated, and that you’ll have more cross-pollination.

Gaggles. I can’t imagine combining any two forces of the military. Each branch has their own code, their own qualifications, their own ranking system, and their own areas of expertise (and I’m not just talking planes and boats).

So you’d to join the Army & Navy? Yeah, you’d have some qualified would-be Navy recruits jump ship.

Army - soldiers. Navy - sailors. Air Force - airmen. You don’t just merge the Air Force with (enter branch here) because M.Sgt XYZ over at Lackland is in intelligence and not flying. Just because the USAF utilizes the Navy for its satellite communications operations doesn’t mean it’s inefficient.

imho, I’d prefer to have different branches of the military in wartime.

Reorganization of military duties (and intelligence operations) happens all the time. You can improve the system without wiping it out.

disclaimer: my s.o. is stationed here and he’s perfectly fine with the CO Army National Guard on his base. He just isn’t looking to don that uniform.

[Farmer_Jane]

@steronz

That’s it, we’re taking our A-10s and going home.

Take your intelligence with you and see how the Army whines.

edit: ARMY & NAVY: Merger Can Wait (1946)

[Clark_K]

@t-bonham@scc.net

I know some of these, because my nephew works at one of them.

IC = Intelligence Community
ONI = Office of Naval Intelligence
DIA = Defense Intelligence Agency
INSCOM = Intelligence and Security Command (Army)
DNI = Defense National Intelligence

Thanks.

[Mr_Smashy]

@Clark_K

DTAMAOAUJFWU?*
*Do those acronyms mean anything or are you just fucking with us?

You spend 5 seconds around these guys and you’ll be talking that way too…

[Mr_Smashy]

@t-bonham@scc.net

I know some of these, because my nephew works at one of them.

IC = Intelligence Community
ONI = Office of Naval Intelligence
DIA = Defense Intelligence Agency
INSCOM = Intelligence and Security Command (Army)
DNI = Defense National Intelligence

Just one correction: ODNI is Office of Department of National Intelligence - it’s not a DOD office.

And as you’ve no doubt figured out by now, JSF is Joint Strike Fighter. NGA is National Geospatial Intelligence Agency (the old NIMA… er, sorry, the old National Imagery and Mapping Agency), and NRO is National Reconnaissance Office, which is kind of a joint effort between the Air Force and CIA, which of course stands for Corrupt Imperialist Aggressors.

JWICS and A Space are intel tools, what’s in them is uber classified.