# Why do we think of Napoleon as silly? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 10, 2008, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136 "2008-11-10T23:17:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/1 "2008-11-10T23:17:16Z")
We think of him as a pompous egomaniac. Why is this? Napoleon was a total BADASS! He was a brilliant general who conquered most of the armies of Europe under the harshest of conditions. He was tough. He was creul. He was the most powerful man on earth. He didn’t have delusions of grandeur, he had real grandeur! Why is he ridiculed in a way that other conquerors, like Alexander the Great, are not? P.S. Why is he knows as Napoleon, when that is his first name, instead of Bonaparte? We don’t refer to the dictators Adolph and Vladamir. ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [November 10, 2008, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/2 "2008-11-10T23:31:26Z")
Oops. Meant to start a new thread. How embarassing. Could some kind person please move the above Napoleon comment to it’s own tread? ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/3 "2008-11-11T00:49:40Z")
* * * We think of him as a pompous egomaniac. Why is this? Napoleon was a total BADASS! He was a brilliant general who conquered most of the armies of Europe under the harshest of conditions. He was tough. He was creul. He was the most powerful man on earth. He didn’t have delusions of grandeur, he had real grandeur! Why is he ridiculed in a way that other conquerors, like Alexander the Great, are not? P.S. Why is he knows as Napoleon, when that is his first name, instead of Bonaparte? We don’t refer to the dictators Adolph and Vladamir. ---
**Author:** ![treis](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bc79bd/32.png) [@treis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/treis)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/4 "2008-11-11T00:58:46Z")
Can you give us an example of people thinking Napoleon is silly? ---
**Author:** ![PopeJewish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@PopeJewish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PopeJewish)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/5 "2008-11-11T00:59:03Z")
> [@autz](#): > > * * * > > We think of him as a pompous egomaniac. > > Why is this? Napoleon was a total BADASS! > > He was a brilliant general who conquered most of the armies of Europe under the harshest of conditions. He was tough. He was creul. He was the most powerful man on earth. > > He didn’t have delusions of grandeur, he had real grandeur! > > Why is he ridiculed in a way that other conquerors, like Alexander the Great, are not? > P.S. Why is he knows as Napoleon, when that is his first name, instead of Bonaparte? We don’t refer to the dictators Adolph and Vladamir. My first guess would be that he was French, and most of us live in what were previously English colonies. The English defeated Bonaparte at Waterloo, add to that the bad blood between the two countries that lasted hundreds of years, and basically it was a way of demeaning a brilliant leader/conqueror and belittling his achievements, which goes along with calling him “Napolean” and not “Bonaparte.” That said, in America and Canada, as well as most of Europe, we drive on the right side of the road BECAUSE of Bonaparte ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/6 "2008-11-11T01:07:57Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Can you give us an example of people thinking Napoleon is silly? Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure Psychonauts I’m sure there are more. I think it’s partly because is traditionally considered to be obsessed with being right. That, and his issues with being short. I’ve heard that he wasn’t actually short for his time, but the idea of a little emperor having a temper tantrum when told he’s wrong has stuck as a funny idea. ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 1:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/7 "2008-11-11T01:23:53Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Bill and Ted’s Excellent Adventure. Hey, that movie made Genghis Khan and Abraham Lincoln look silly, not just Napoleon. ---
**Author:** ![Manduck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/manduck/32/256_2.png) [@Manduck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Manduck)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 1:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/8 "2008-11-11T01:30:14Z")
> [@autz](#): > > * * * > > P.S. Why is he knows as Napoleon, when that is his first name, instead of Bonaparte? We don’t refer to the dictators Adolph and Vladamir. He started going by his first name when he became emporer, because it’s customary for royalty to be known by their first names. His enemies continued to call him Bonaparte, though, because they didn’t recognize him as legitimate royalty. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/9 "2008-11-11T01:32:42Z")
There’s a meme of insane people believing they’re Napoleon. They’re silly. Perhaps over time they morphed into ‘Silly Napoleon’? ---
**Author:** ![MikeS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/919ad9/32.png) [@MikeS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MikeS)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/10 "2008-11-11T01:33:23Z")
> [@autz](#): > > Why is he knows as Napoleon, when that is his first name, instead of Bonaparte? We don’t refer to the dictators Adolph and Vladamir. Neither Hitler nor Lenin (?) styled themselves as royalty; Napoleon crowned himself Emperor Napoleon I. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/11 "2008-11-11T01:38:33Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Can you give us an example of people thinking Napoleon is silly? Maybe this: Where did we get the idea crazy people think they’re Napoleon? > **[Where did we get the idea crazy people think they’re Napoleon? Plus: Did tin...](https://www.straightdope.com/21343875/where-did-we-get-the-idea-crazy-people-think-they-re-napoleon-plus-did-tin-disease-contribute-to-nap)** For example I remember late-night TV commercials about 15 years ago in the Los Angeles (California) area with a guy selling stereos and wearing a bicorn hat (the hat style commonly associated with Napoleon I). ---
**Author:** ![Palo\_Verde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/65b543/32.png) [@Palo\_Verde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Palo_Verde)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 1:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/12 "2008-11-11T01:40:24Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Can you give us an example of people thinking Napoleon is silly? There is a whole WIKI article on Napoleon in popular culture that says, "At the same time, however, he has become a cliché and a comic figure in popular culture. Today this caricature of Napoleon often overshadows the real historical figure… The stock character of Napoleon is generally comically short, indignant, and bossy; the literal embodiment of the “petty tyrant”. ---
**Author:** ![Rick](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/9f8e36/32.png) [@Rick](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rick)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 2:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/13 "2008-11-11T02:03:09Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > Maybe this: > Where did we get the idea crazy people think they’re Napoleon? > [Where did we get the idea crazy people think they’re Napoleon? Plus: Did tin disease contribute to Napoleon’s defeat in Russia? - The Straight Dope](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2764/napoleon-complex) > > For example I remember late-night TV commercials about 15 years ago in the Los Angeles (California) area with a guy selling stereos and wearing a bicorn hat (the hat style commonly associated with Napoleon I). If it was a little longer than 15 years ago, you might have been seeing [Earl “Madman” Muntz](http://images.google.com/imgres?imgurl=http://www.tvacres.com/images/muntz3.jpg&imgrefurl=http://www.tvacres.com/admascots_madman_muntz.htm&h=352&w=256&sz=14&hl=en&start=1&um=1&usg=__d5JDKH_xKBFgNWiJjnVO1Pin9to=&tbnid=NF1cA8ykdNPRKM:&tbnh=120&tbnw=87&prev=/images%3Fq%3Dmadman%2Bmuntz%26um%3D1%26hl%3Den%26client%3Dfirefox-a%26rls%3Dorg.mozilla:en-US:official%26sa%3DN). He started out selling used cars with ad lines like “I buy them retail, and sell them wholesale” and “I want to give them away, but my wife won’t let me, she’s crazy” Interesting guy, here is a wiki [link](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Madman_Muntz) on him. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/14 "2008-11-11T02:04:08Z")
No problem. ---
**Author:** ![PopeJewish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@PopeJewish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PopeJewish)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/15 "2008-11-11T02:09:04Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > I’m sure there are more. I think it’s partly because is traditionally considered to be obsessed with being right. That, and his issues with being short. I’ve heard that he wasn’t actually short for his time, but the idea of a little emperor having a temper tantrum when told he’s wrong has stuck as a funny idea. Napolean was a bit short (according to Wikipedia he was 1.69 meters, which is around 5’ 2.5" and was “just under average height of a Frenchmen during his time” but the legacy of him being very short came mostly from British propaganda looking to belittle him, just as in Ameica during WWII there were cartoons and such of all the Japanese looking and acting exactly the same (and that Chinese people were good. Whereas just after WWII the images of the two peoples switched) ---
**Author:** ![Sage\_Rat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sage_rat/32/399_2.png) [@Sage\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sage_Rat)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/16 "2008-11-11T02:10:13Z")
My personal guess would be that it’s due to “Jumping the Shark” in a sense. During his reign and following it for almost a century, Napolean was a very common subject in European literature. Everyone had an opinion one way or another about whether he had been just some jackass who gave good speeches and won battles, or if he was someone who really wanted to improve the world and was torn down by politics and love. Essentially, he was a character in literature for longer than he was a ruler of Europe. But like long-running TV shows, the more you use and reuse a character, the flatter they become and the more you need to stretch the character into doing stupid stuff (like shark jumping) to keep attracting attention. So now, two hundred years later, we’re left with the remnants of the Napoleon character as transmogrified from real man, to dashing hero, to interesting figure, and on to jackass and clown. ---
**Author:** ![cmkeller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cmkeller/32/118_2.png) [@cmkeller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cmkeller)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 2:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/17 "2008-11-11T02:16:38Z")
It’s the hat. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 2:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/18 "2008-11-11T02:18:20Z")
> [@autz](#): > > Why is he ridiculed in a way that other conquerors, like Alexander the Great, are not? Probably because the English press ridiculed him mercilessly during his reign. That opinion of him would be more likely to travel to the US. > [@](#): > > P.S. Why is he knows as Napoleon, when that is his first name, instead of Bonaparte? We don’t refer to the dictators Adolph and Vladamir. Because he called himself Napoleon, not Bonaparte. He took the first name the same way that kings of the time did. The US ridiculed George III, not Hanover. ---
**Author:** ![Dan\_ch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a4c791/32.png) [@Dan\_ch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dan_ch)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 2:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/19 "2008-11-11T02:21:52Z")
> [@autz](#): > > P.S. Why is he knows as Napoleon, when that is his first name, instead of Bonaparte? We don’t refer to the dictators Adolph and Vladamir. Wild guess: because he become emperor under the name Napoleon 1st. Until then he was just the general Bonaparte. It seems that, for some reason, the kings & emperors are referred to on a first name basis (Alexander the Great, Caesar, queen Elizabeth, king George V, etc). On preview: Heh, too late… :smack: 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sublight](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Sublight](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sublight)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 2:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/20 "2008-11-11T02:30:32Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Probably because the English press ridiculed him mercilessly during his reign. That opinion of him would be more likely to travel to the US. What I was going to say. In France, he’s not regarded as silly at all, but as the enemy of England any depictions of him there were insulting or mocking. Because of their common language, the US is more likely to pick up cultural cues from England than from France. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136.md?page=2)