# Why do we think of Napoleon as silly? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 10, 2008, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136 "2008-11-10T23:17:16Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![detop](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@detop](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/detop)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/41 "2008-11-11T16:35:20Z")
> [@Martini\_Enfield](#): > > Napoleon also broke The First Cardinal Rule of Warfare: > > _Never invade Russia in the Winter._\ Wrong. He invaded [June 24](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_invasion_of_Russia). ---
**Author:** ![Stormcrow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/0ea827/32.png) [@Stormcrow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Stormcrow)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/42 "2008-11-11T16:50:03Z")
> [@treis](#): > > Can you give us an example of people thinking Napoleon is silly? “I like leetel thingz - hitting each other!” - Time Bandits ---
**Author:** ![UncleRojelio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unclerojelio/32/3160_2.png) [@UncleRojelio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UncleRojelio)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/43 "2008-11-11T16:55:19Z")
Either way, the only good to come of the whole campaign was this [graphic](http://it.coe.uga.edu/studio/seminars/visualization/minard.html). A chillingly efficient depiction of the suffering and death of nearly half a million men. ---
**Author:** ![phouka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c5a1d2/32.png) [@phouka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/phouka)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/44 "2008-11-11T20:33:43Z")
> [@T\_SQUARE](#): > > Plus, he kept the Mona Lisa hanging in his bedroom and he invented sabering champagne. Or at least his calvary officers made it popular. “Sabering champagne”? Is that like shotgunning beer? ---
**Author:** ![jimmmy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/73ab20/32.png) [@jimmmy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jimmmy)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/45 "2008-11-11T21:11:35Z")
I think also that time and place have made him appear less harmful and scary. This (and what we and his contemporaries call him) is seen in the famous headlines of the French newspaper of record [Le Moniteur](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Le_Moniteur_Universel) in March of 1815 (George Will had a great column on this once re the press) March 9th The Monster has escaped from his place of banishment March 10th The Corsican Orge has landed at Cape Juan March 11 The Tiger has shown himself at Gap March 13th The Tyrant is now at Lyon March 18th The Usurper has ventured to approach to within 60 hours’ march of the capital. March 19th Bonaparte is advancing by forced marches, but it is impossible he can reach Paris. March 20 Napoleon will arrive under the walls of Paris tomorrow March 21 The Emperor Napoleon is at Fountainbleau March 22nd Yesterday evening His Majesty the Emperor made his public entry and arrived at the Tuileries ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/46 "2008-11-11T21:23:08Z")
> [@Baldwin](#): > > Note: Napoleon wasn’t French; he was Corsican. Corsica is part of France. Sure, to this day it has an active independence movement, and sure, it hadn’t been part of France for long back in Napoleon’s day (I believe Corsica was annexed by France the year before Napoleon’s birth), but there’s no denying Napoleon was French, especially since he served in the French Army and became the leader of France. ---
**Author:** ![T\_SQUARE](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/9de053/32.png) [@T\_SQUARE](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/T_SQUARE)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/47 "2008-11-11T23:31:51Z")
> [@phouka](#): > > “Sabering champagne”? > > Is that like shotgunning beer? Sort of. You use a cutting tool to lop off the top of the bottle. Sharp really doesn’t have anything to do with it, you just have to run the blade along the seam of the bottle at a 45ish degree angle and give it a good wack along the rim. If you do it right, the top of the bottle with the cork still in it goes sailing off and you are left with a clean break. It’s really easy and fun, but one might want to practice with some $4 California swill before moving on to the Dom P. It’s a real crowd pleaser at a party when a bunch of people are hem-hawing around about how to open the bottle, until you grab the bottle, produce a big ass blade and go to town. I’ve heard that Napoleon’s officers opened champagne with their swords after a victory ---
**Author:** ![PopeJewish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@PopeJewish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PopeJewish)\ **Post date:** [November 11, 2008, 11:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/48 "2008-11-11T23:57:34Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > Well maybe he wasn’t French but he did lead them and tried to make France ruler of the world. > > I mean…Come On, France rule the world? > > In your dreams Boney …you do realize that France was one of the main European centers of culture and power for a very long time, right? That’s where the main concepts behind Knighthood come from (like Chivalry, a _French_ word) ---
**Author:** ![yabob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yabob/32/2821_2.png) [@yabob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yabob)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 12:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/49 "2008-11-12T00:58:44Z")
> [@PopeJewish](#): > > …you do realize that France was one of the main European centers of culture and power for a very long time, right? That’s where the main concepts behind Knighthood come from (like Chivalry, a _French_ word) But the though of them ruling the world … that’s just Gauling. ---
**Author:** ![PopeJewish](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@PopeJewish](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PopeJewish)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 1:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/50 "2008-11-12T01:17:31Z")
> [@yabob](#): > > But the though of them ruling the world … that’s just Gauling. lol 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 1:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/51 "2008-11-12T01:18:37Z")
> [@chowder](#): > > Well maybe he wasn’t French but he did lead them and tried to make France ruler of the world. > > I mean…Come On, France rule the world? > > In your dreams Boney He did not try to make France ruler of Europe, let alone the world. ---
**Author:** ![Martini\_Enfield](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/martini_enfield/32/11123_2.png) [@Martini\_Enfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martini_Enfield)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 2:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/52 "2008-11-12T02:42:30Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > I thought it was _never get involved in a land war in Asia_ According to Monty (General, Not Python): > [@General Bernard Montgomery](#): > > "Rule 1, on page 1 of the book of war, is: “Do not march on Moscow”. Various people have tried it, Napoleon and Hitler, and it is no good. That is the first rule. I do not know whether your Lordships will know Rule 2 of war. It is: “Do not go fighting with your land armies in China”. It is a vast country, with no clearly defined objectives. . Later, when giving a speech in the House of Lords on the US in Vietnam: > [@](#): > > The US has broken the second rule of war. That is, don’t go fighting with your land army on the mainland of Asia. Rule One is don’t march on Moscow. I developed these two rules myself. Both these rules have since evolved and passed down to us as “Never Invade Russia in the Winter” and “Don’t Get Involved in Land Wars in Asia”. And yes, I know Napoleon invaded Russia on June 24th (summer in Europe), but Winter set in as they retreated from Moscow, causing the same problems that would later buggerise Hitlers plans for _Lebensraum_, so the saying still stands, IMHO. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Colibri](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/colibri/32/1841_2.png) [@Colibri](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colibri)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 5:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/53 "2008-11-12T05:07:23Z")
[Moderators notes] I just noticed that **autz** started two separate threads with the same title, one in GQ and one in IMHO. I have moved the GQ one to IMHO and merged them, explaining some of the scrambling of posts. **autz** , please do not start two threads on the same subject in different forums. This is known as cross-posting, and is against the rules. Colibri General Questions Moderator ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/54 "2008-11-12T05:49:05Z")
> [@PopeJewish](#): > > …you do realize that France was one of the main European centers of culture and power for a very long time, right? That’s where the main concepts behind Knighthood come from (like Chivalry, a _French_ word) **chowder** ’s a grouchy British guy. Disliking the frogs is what he does. Don’t confuse him with facts. 😛 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 6:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/55 "2008-11-12T06:09:01Z")
> [@Stormcrow](#): > > “I like leetel thingz - hitting each other!” - Time Bandits Aw, I was gonna mention _Time Bandits_, in which we finally learn why he kept one hand tucked into his jacket: it was made of solid gold! Conan Doyle talked a little about European attitudes towards Napoleon in the late 19th century in his Sherlock Holmes story, “The Six Napoleons” (the title refers to several plaster busts of the late ruler which are mysteriously stolen and destroyed). IIRC, he was thought of as a military genius but also a megalomaniac who overreached and ultimately pulled his own empire down around him. With the increase over time in depictions of crazy people insisting they’re the Emperor, it’s hardly shocking that he would now be seen as more silly than fearsome. ---
**Author:** ![bbs2k](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e495f1/32.png) [@bbs2k](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bbs2k)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 12:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/56 "2008-11-12T12:39:53Z")
> [@Khadaji](#): > > I thought it was _never get involved in a land war in Asia_ I though it was never go in against a Sicilian when death is on the line. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [November 12, 2008, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/57 "2008-11-12T14:34:47Z")
Okay…shaking walking stick. Napoleon is , I believe , admired as a commander- certainly never a comic figure. His subordanites let him down at Waterloo and Blucher saved the day for Wellington. Also- never fight a land war in Asia is a myth in a few ways. Napoleon suffered more casualties on the withdrawal than on the way in. I think Germany proved in the Great War that you can win a land war in Asia. Sorry **Martini Enfield**. ---
**Author:** ![Askance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/askance/32/8281_2.png) [@Askance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Askance)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 4:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/58 "2008-11-13T04:42:16Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > I think Germany proved in the Great War that you can win a land war in Asia. They did? How? The only German action in Asia was a few confrontations in pacific islands and China, I don’t think any actual fighting occurred. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 5:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/59 "2008-11-13T05:01:05Z")
> [@Askance](#): > > They did? How? The only German action in Asia was a few confrontations in pacific islands and China, I don’t think any actual fighting occurred. Unless my history is faulty they defeated Russia. ---
**Author:** ![SanVito](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sanvito/32/2805_2.png) [@SanVito](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/SanVito)\ **Post date:** [November 13, 2008, 1:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136/60 "2008-11-13T13:41:08Z")
> [@PopeJewish](#): > > …you do realize that France was one of the main European centers of culture and power for a very long time, right? That’s where the main concepts behind Knighthood come from (like Chivalry, a _French_ word) And you do realise that Chowder is British and therefore genetics dictate that he shall always mock the French, right? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-think-of-napoleon-as-silly/472136.md?page=4)