# Why do we tolerate Israel's strongarm tactics? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 31, 2002, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-tolerate-israels-strongarm-tactics/121619 "2002-07-31T00:52:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![fluiddruid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/c2a13f/32.png) [@fluiddruid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/fluiddruid)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 11:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-tolerate-israels-strongarm-tactics/121619/21 "2002-07-31T11:07:01Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Alessan \* > \*\* > The United States government has an obligation to protect U.S. citizens. It has no obligation to protect Mexican citizens. Therefore, if killing Mexicans helps protect Americans, the U.S. government is obliged to kill Mexicans. > > For the Mexican government the situation is reversed. \*\* Whaaat? Let me get this straight: a nation’s only concern for life is for that of its own citizens. No amount of damage to other human life is of any concern in a case where citizen lives are in peril, regardless of degree. It would therefore be satisfactory to you to launch nuclear weapons into densely populated areas or Mexico, killing thousands – or, heck, millions – if there was a credible threat to only a handful, nay, even a single American life caused by persons in those areas of Mexico? If a disease in one nation threatened to spread to another, it would be OK for the uninfected nation to firebomb areas where people tend to migrate over the border to negate this foreign threat? This obviously doesn’t make sense. Why would we send soldiers abroad on peacekeeping missions (where there is a threat to their life), for one? Also, isn’t this ignoring any sense of morality or even the basic value of human life? ---
**Author:** ![Tristan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tristan/32/18058_2.png) [@Tristan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tristan)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 11:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-tolerate-israels-strongarm-tactics/121619/22 "2002-07-31T11:09:22Z")
For what it’s worth, I think that Israel is handling this whole situation much much better than I would. Then again, I have a rather extreme view on such things. Heck, I think we’re being too soft on terrorist harboring states. All of them. but that’s me, and my “non-politically aware, nor caring about it” self. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-tolerate-israels-strongarm-tactics/121619/23 "2002-07-31T11:32:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Blalron \* > \*\*What Israel did recently with the Hamas leader was morally reprehsible. Haven’t they heard of “due process”? This is even worse than if they would have shot the alleged terrorist on the spot without a trial. At least then, they wouldn’t kill innocent bystanders. > > What if the United States did the same thing? What if, instead of arresting Timothy McVeigh, we bombed his apartment complex and killed 15 other people? > > Why does our country continue to support this? \*\* How exactly do you expect Israel to respond? Marc ---
**Author:** ![TwistofFate](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/cdc98d/32.png) [@TwistofFate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TwistofFate)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 12:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-tolerate-israels-strongarm-tactics/121619/24 "2002-07-31T12:08:48Z")
perhaps trying to arrest him, like they claim the incursion into Jenin was all about? You cannot defend one side’s attrocities and say they are “at war” and call the other sides atrocities “acts of terrorism”. ---
**Author:** ![Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bosda_di_chi_of_tricor/32/16845_2.png) [@Bosda\_Di\_Chi\_of\_Tricor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bosda_Di_Chi_of_Tricor)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 12:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-tolerate-israels-strongarm-tactics/121619/25 "2002-07-31T12:38:19Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Efrem \* > \*\*That has got to be one of the oldest excuses for arocities on the planet. ‘All is fair in love and war’. Civilian or not, ‘Enemy’ lives are always cheap, right? As long as **we** _wink_ can justify it, it’s officially not wrong. > > Wow, an enemy who doesn’t recognize your right to exist (I am shocked :eek: ). Their ‘implacable’ too (However, they are easily recognizable by the 666 on their forehead) so our only hope is to let God sort them out. > > Your right, Palestinians aren’t motivated nationhood or by a sense of justice, anger, or fear (the things that motivate Israelis). They are somehow different. Maybe it’s because of their ‘religious fanaticism & intolerance’. > > God bless OUR allies. It is their struggles that are courageous, and filled with valor! > > Of course! Don’t blame our side blame the other, after all they are the wrong ones. > > Why does ‘counter-terrorism’ look an awful like ‘terrorism’? > > Just what America needs to turn into Israel, we all know how safe THEY are. Maybe they haven’t killed enough ‘terrorists’? Shot enough ‘agressors’? Settled enough land? Opressed enough ‘enemies’? What America needs is to drop a big ol’ nuke right down in ‘Terrorville, ME’. That will fix everything, right? \*\* Nice post. Not much **substance** , but one of the _best_ uses of innuendo, hysteria, and irrelavancies I’ve seen this week. The PLO has **publically & repeatedly** stated that Israel has no right to exist. As has Hamas.\*\* Both\*\* have stated that they will fight until Israel is destroyed. Isreal has, for decades, offered reasonable & sincere terms for peace. **It is the Palestinians militants who have chosen war.** Since there are only two options in this world, fight or negotiate, & since the position that the PLO & Hamas have taken invalidates any possible negotiations, there is nothing left but war or death for the Israelis. As for the whining about the means, that’s utter rubbish. All war is about killing. And it is the leadership of the Palestinian people who choose to hide themselves behind women & children. I remind you of the **fact** that _thousands_ of Israeli civilians have been massacred in the same way. With bombs. This is, at worst, reprisal in kind. As a point of order, I wish to remind you that the PLO drove out or murdered the Palestinians moderates who wanted peace _years ago_. You defend men with the mindsets of mobsters, sir. Finally, **Efrem** , I note that your own personal behind is safe in lovely Nova Scotia. It is dammed easy to be self-rightous when nobody is shooting at _your @ss!_ :mad: ---
**Author:** ![deball](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@deball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deball)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-tolerate-israels-strongarm-tactics/121619/26 "2002-07-31T12:53:43Z")
Well, the Israeli bombing had a strategic military value, that is, taking out a commander of opposition forces, because they are “at war”. Unfortunately, civilians were killed in the process. After taking much heat from the international community and admiting that it was a bad thing to kill civilians in the bombing, the Israelis relaxed some of their martial laws and were promptly attacked by the Palestinian radical groups. Per their standard MO, the Palestinians directly attacked civilians as targets, trying to continue to strike terror in the populace. The latest I heard was a university cafeteria. These are the types of “acts of terrorism” that come to my mind. I don’t think the dictionary could define it any better. I wish there was a diplomatioc solution to be had for the whole mess. But IMHO the radical (I stress radical) Palestinians have too many rival factions and militias to make that possible. The Israelis could strike peace with one, and another will come from the sewer and blow up more kids on a city bus, then expect me to feel sorry for their plight. I don’t think so. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-tolerate-israels-strongarm-tactics/121619/27 "2002-07-31T13:06:13Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor \* > \*\*Finally, **Efrem** , I note that your own personal behind is safe in lovely Nova Scotia. It is dammed easy to be self-rightous when nobody is shooting at _your @ss!_ :mad: \*\* Forgive me, this cracks me up. And where exatly is _your_ self-righteousness stemming from, **Bosda**? I’m guessing here you aren’t living in the Occupied Terrirories. I don’t agree with **Efrem’s** hyperbole, but I do think that there is a tremendous volume of double standards displayed here. What happened appears to me to be the willingness to kill large numbers of civilians because it was expedient to do so. Reminds me of something else: “suicide morons” (good term, **Tars** and a lot more logical a piece of propaganda than “homicide bombers” - surely all terrorist bombers are homicide bombers?). Look at the appalling death total on both sides, and note in whose ‘favour’ the death toll is. If you think it’s appalling wanton murder (as I do), then condemn the murder of civilians on both sides as abhorrent. Otherwise, just declare your partisanship and have done with it. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-tolerate-israels-strongarm-tactics/121619/28 "2002-07-31T13:09:56Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by deball \* > Palestinians have too many rival factions and militias to make that possible. The Israelis could strike peace with one, and another will come from the sewer and blow up more kids on a city bus, then expect me to feel sorry for their plight. I don’t think so. This is what happens when terrorists manage to get a whole society demonised. You feel sorry for the Israeli Scholl kids but not the Palestinian kids ? Israel cannot kill all of the terrorists. Nobody sensible is saying that Israel cannot protect itself or conduct aggressive ops to get their enemies. The fact is that they have gone beyond the pale on some occasions. When they do this they play into the other sides hand. International opinion goes against Israeli administration, as it is a government and not a bunch of terrorists. > [@](#): > > by Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor > I remind you of the fact that thousands of Israeli civilians have been massacred in the same way. With bombs. This is, at worst, reprisal in kind. All well and good but I could imagine a terrorist saying the same thing and they’d actually believe it. I’ve no answer to this fucked up situation but unquestioning support for either side isn’t going to help anyone. Israel as a democratic country has shown themselves to not be as innocent as some of you might want to believe. The Palestinian terrorists are … well terrorists and no more need be said really. Both sides believe they are fighting the good fight and both sides have a point when the situation is looked at honestly IMO. FUBAR ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 1:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-tolerate-israels-strongarm-tactics/121619/29 "2002-07-31T13:16:22Z")
Oh God, another one: [here’s the awful bloody revenge](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2163677.stm). :mad: ---
**Author:** ![London\_Calling](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/49beb7/32.png) [@London\_Calling](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/London_Calling)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-tolerate-israels-strongarm-tactics/121619/30 "2002-07-31T13:53:18Z")
> [@](#): > > _Originally posted by Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor \* > The PLO has **publically & repeatedly** stated that Israel has no right to exist. As has Hamas._\* Both\*\* have stated that they will fight until Israel is destroyed. Not quite so. The PA Foreign Minister has stated ‘they’ are prepared to accept Bush’s proposal (24 June speech) of a provisional Palestinian State as the basis for negotiation and based on the border as of 4th June 1967: Implicit and explicit acceptance of the right of Israel to exist – I’ve heard it three times in interview situations since 24th June…make of that what you will. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Bosda Di’Chi of Tricor \* > As a point of order, I wish to remind you that the PLO drove out or murdered the Palestinians moderates who wanted peace _years ago_. You defend men with the mindsets of mobsters, sir. Again, not quite so. Here’s one: [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/archive/2090405.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/newsnight/archive/2090405.stm) Here’s six more: [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle\_east/2066999.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2066999.stm) Here’s more still: [http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle\_east/2066999.stm](http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/2066999.stm) ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-tolerate-israels-strongarm-tactics/121619/31 "2002-07-31T14:59:44Z")
Blalron - At least there is a purpose and a method to Israel’s use of force. Hamas and the other Palestinian terror groups deliberately target civilians in strategically important targets like schools, cafes and shopping malls. Mabey we should outfit our soldiers in Afghanistan with court orders instead of rifles. ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-tolerate-israels-strongarm-tactics/121619/32 "2002-07-31T14:59:55Z")
There is no moral high ground to be had in the Middle East until the Palestinians stop targeting Israeli civilians or Israeli tones down its military aggression. Yassir Arafat can’t control his own people and Ariel Sharon is a warmongerer whose tactics anger even a good number of Israelis. > [@](#): > > Yojimbo said: > To the people that are saying Israel is at war and War sucks etc. > > If Israel are at war then logically the other side is at war aswell. So would I be correct to reply to a thread about the next suicide bomber by saying “Face it war sucks, get over it.” > > I don’t think so. Damn skippy. ---
**Author:** ![deball](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@deball](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/deball)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 3:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-tolerate-israels-strongarm-tactics/121619/33 "2002-07-31T15:01:31Z")
Yojimbo, you misquoted me and left out the first few words of the first sentence. I definitely do not think the Palestinian people are just a bunch of terrorists. It’s the splinter radical groups that support and create terrorists that are the friggin problem on their side. No civilians should be getting killed at all, on either sides. In fact, no one should be getting killed period. But like you said, and I agree wholeheartedly with you, it’s gone completely FUBAR. ---
**Author:** ![yojimbo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yojimbo/32/232_2.png) [@yojimbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/yojimbo)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-tolerate-israels-strongarm-tactics/121619/34 "2002-07-31T15:20:50Z")
Oh dear. I actually misread you as well, didn’t even see the beginning of that sentence. Sorry ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-tolerate-israels-strongarm-tactics/121619/35 "2002-07-31T15:32:27Z")
1. > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by fluiddruid \* > \*\* > > Whaaat? > > Let me get this straight: a of damage to other human life is of any concern in a case where citizen lives are in peril, regardless of degree. > > \*\* Of corse not - I only said that obligation is the most important factor, not the only one. Morality, long-term consequences and the global view also play an important part. Extreme measures are justified _as a last resort_. > [@](#): > > \*\* > It would therefore be satisfactory to you to launch nuclear weapons into densely populated areas or Mexico, killing thousands – or, heck, millions – if there was a credible threat to only a handful, nay, even a single American life caused by persons in those areas of Mexico? > \*\* No, for several reasons: first of all, there could be many other much less violent ways to solve the proble. Second, I don’t think the American public will stand for killing a million Mexicans to save 1 American. Killing 1000 to save 100, probably yes - morality is not a precise science. Lastly, killing a million Mexicans would seriously damage long-term U.S. political interests. \*\* > [@](#): > > If a disease in one nation threatened to spread to another, it would be OK for the uninfected nation to firebomb areas where people tend to migrate over the border to negate this foreign threat? > \*\* Yes - if the disease was dangerous enough, if there was no other way to stop it, if there was a reasonable chance that it would work. It the real world it’s almost impossible to totally seal a border, so trying to stop a disease - even by extreme measures - is largely pointless Listen, I’m not giving governments _carte blanche_. I’m just saying morality is not the most important consideration. It’s unfortunate, but history teaches us that the only way a nation can exist is by occasionaly acting like a son of a bitch. 1. > [@](#): > > \*\*perhaps trying to arrest him, like they claim the incursion into Jenin was all about? > > You cannot defend one side’s attrocities and say they are “at war” and call the other sides atrocities “acts of terrorism”. \*\* Arrest him? Since when does the Israeli Police have jurisdiction in Gaza? Arresting him would be no more legal than bombing him, not to mention virtually impossible. Jenin, incidentally, was spin - the IDF was taking militants into custody not as part of a legal process, but because enemies are better off captured than dead. If the IDF could have siezed Shehada they would have, if only for intelligence purposes. And yes I can defend Israel, if only because the civilian deaths in Gaza were an accidental side effect of a legitimate military attack, and the Palestinian attacks - like the one today at Hebrew U. - are just killing for killing sake. For fuck’s sake, the Palestinians _gloat_ over killing Israelis. I agree that the government should have made a greater effort to apologize for the killing, and that the IDF should make a serious review of its operating methods - something I believe is already happening. Still, did you see any Israeli act like they were proud of the deaths? ---
**Author:** ![Efrem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@Efrem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Efrem)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-tolerate-israels-strongarm-tactics/121619/36 "2002-07-31T17:02:11Z")
> [@](#): > > Hey there, you Americans out there? May I remind you that a mere seven months ago our country was wracked by the largest and most costly acts of terrorism the world has ever seen? A desperate grab to capture the fear and anger from the Americans on this board. Remind them that they are should be scared and angry, then unleash them on a common ‘enemy’. Now that they are scared and angry they can think clearly, right. > [@](#): > > So… why in the name of Jehosephat would you expect the Israelis to deal with a “nation” that not only uses terrorism as a tool of national policy, but which also has a written commitment to destroy the Israelis by dealing in bad faith? For th same reason Palestinians would deal with a ‘nation’ that uses: [‘counter-terrorism’](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/2146604.stm), [torture](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/637293.stm), [assassination](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/1258187.stm), [colonization](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/in_depth/middle_east/2001/israel_and_the_palestinians/issues/981554.stm), [oppression](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/1933967.stm), [deportation](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/2142706.stm), [economic strangulation](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/2018796.stm), [home razing](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/world/middle_east/1153284.stm) as a tool of national policy. A ‘nation’ that since conception has been systematically chasing Palestinians from the entire area of Israel, the West Bank, and Gaza. With methods not unlike past European colonial campaigns in NA, SA, Africa, Asia. > [@](#): > > You want to know what kind of “nation” Palestine is? It is a group of people that, as best I can tell, has never governed themselves. I did not know self government was a preresiqute for self government. BTW if you are looking for self governance please tell WTF was the Palestinian Authority. > [@](#): > > and is united behind one simple, unwavering purpose: the removal of Judaism from the Holy Land. Hyperbole to the highest degree. If the only thing that unites Palestinians is genocidal removal of Judaism, how come during each and every peace negotiation for an independent Palestine, the destruction of Israel was never a sticking point. Hell, with an agenda like that ANY negotiation would be close to impossible. > [@](#): > > The Palestinians supported their own oppressors, the Turks, in the First World War. They raided the baggage trains of their own liberators, the combined Arab and British forces. Acts of poverty driven crime that outlaws commit are not in any way a national agreement of Turkish support. I will have to see a credible cite showing that the majority of Palestinians supported the Ottoman Turks in WWI. BTW for the record, the British **didn’t** liberate Palestine after WWI, they conquered it from the Turks. Thanks to the [1916 Sykes-Picot Agreement](http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/sykes.htm), the Arab world was carved up between France and Britain. Palestine was given to the British who allowed massive Jewish immigration, carved it up to create Israel, then left. What great ‘liberators’. > [@](#): > > Therefore, nobody thought it particularly inappropriate that the Balfour Declaration placed a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Of course, it’s not like the Palestinians had a f\*ckin say in things. > [@](#): > > The Palestinian “national rights” were not stripped from them; they never fucking had them to begin with. One thing we can agree on, of course I find this clear disregard for Palestinian rights as an injustice. > [@](#): > > They were subjects of the Ottomans, and they fought to remain so. And lost. Cite? > [@](#): > > Loss of territory is often part of the price of defeat. Yet Palestinian nationality was guaranteed by the Balfour Declaration as well. The [Balfour Declaration](http://www.yale.edu/lawweb/avalon/mideast/balfour.htm)was a testament to the carving and splitting of Palestine, just so foreigns could come from overseas and settle on their land. WTF, why in hell should they have agreed to that! > [@](#): > > Unfortunately for the Palestinians, they were far more intent upon opposing Jewish immigration than they were in actually forming a country of their own. Lets see, after the Balfour Declaration (which committed to create an Israel in then Palestine) in the 1930’s the British had allowed over 100,000 Jewish settlers move in. Of f\*cking course they would have a uprising. > [@](#): > > Rather than consolodate their own national identity, the Palestinians responded to the Balfour Declaration with revolts and massacres, in 1920, 1929, and 1936. On one hand they had a firm commitment to creating an Israel, on the other hand massive immigration of Jewish settlers bent on ‘retaking’ their land. Did you expect rejoicing? > [@](#): > > The Palestinian leader, Haj Amin al-Husseini (a close relative of Yassir Arafat) went on to support the Nazis in World War II. He met with Hitler, and encouraged him to bring his extermination campaign to the Middle East. He helped recruit a muslim Waffen SS Division. Again, they lost. Can some one say Godwin? How the hell is this important to anything that has to do with the current Middle East conflict? Half of f\*cking Europe had Nazi support. Do you hate Germans now? > [@](#): > > So in 1948, when Israel and Palestine were created, it should come as no suprise that the Palesinians again tried to destroy the Israelis. And lost. Again. Destroy the Israelis or rightfully take back their conquered and then sold off land? > [@](#): > > Whereupon the Palestinians allied themselves with the Communists. And lost the Cold War. Israel was [constantly](http://images.thetimes.co.uk/TGD/picture/0,,35850,00.gif) and [unquestionably](http://www.palestinemonitor.org/factsheet/A%20breakdown%20of%20United%20States%20Aid%20to%20Israel.htm)supplied with all the weapons (and money) it could ever need to conquer and control Palestine by the USA. Who the f\*ck else is going to help Palestinians. > [@](#): > > Along the line, they participated in the Six Day War, the War of Attrition, and the Yom Kippur War. The former and the latter were both attempts by the Palestinians and their allies outside the borders of the historical Palestine to launch suprise attacks aimed at pushing the Israelis into the sea. Unlike like Israeli attempts to fill the [West Bank](http://www.btselem.org/English/Publications/Summaries/Land_Grab_2002.asp) and Gaza with Jewish setters and effectively create an Arab landless minority. > [@](#): > > The Palestinians still claim all of Israel. They’re still sticking to the Phased Plan for the destruction of Israel. Yet more hyperbolic garbage that was already discussed. > [@](#): > > They are fucking terrorists from their leader and founder of the bloodiest terrorist organization of the 20th Century, Yassir Arafat, to the people in the streets who rely upon suicide bombing as a source of family income. Forget that for the last Yassir Arafat has been a symbol of Palestinian peace and cooperation with Israel for the past decade. Yes, they are ALL terrorists. The Men and Women… TERRORISTS! The civilians… TERRORISTS! Rock throwers… TERRORISTS! Children… TERRORISTS! > [@](#): > > What is it that the Palestinians deserve, again? They don’t deserve jack shit. They deserve far more. For they past 100 years ‘Jack shit’ is all they were getting. > [@](#): > > We Americans should be absolutely disgusted and ashamed that we are forcing Israel to deal with the Palestinians, for we ourselves would have destroyed them entirely decades ago. I would refute this, but all one has to do is look at the Native American crises in America to agree. ---
**Author:** ![Efrem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@Efrem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Efrem)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 5:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-tolerate-israels-strongarm-tactics/121619/37 "2002-07-31T17:19:59Z")
> [@](#): > > Efrem, I cordially invite you to examine my post in this BBQ Pit thread, which I think more effectively underscores my contempt for the position you repeatedly and tenaciously take on this matter. Now that I have addressed your feelings for my position, allow me to underscore my contempt for your position. Your posts smacks of arrogance, ignorance, and bigotry. You constantly appeal to the SDMB that Palestinians are the scum of the earth, you plead this idea with such ferocity that it boggles the mind. With your posts second thoughts should never be considered on ANY issue when dealing with Israel’s handling of Palestinians. Palestinians always had it coming. Their deaths can always be justified, after all they ARE Palestinians. This disregard for Palestinian life makes me sick. I am quite surprised that you can post such filth on the SDMB without being flamed. ---
**Author:** ![Efrem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d78d45/32.png) [@Efrem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Efrem)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 5:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-tolerate-israels-strongarm-tactics/121619/38 "2002-07-31T17:26:57Z")
> [@](#): > > I don’t agree with Efrem’s hyperbole Yeah, I really didn’t expect it to be ground breaking, more of a ’ something to get off my chest thing’ :). ---
**Author:** ![Mandos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c68b51/32.png) [@Mandos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mandos)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-tolerate-israels-strongarm-tactics/121619/39 "2002-07-31T17:52:35Z")
First of all, could people please stop using articles from the BBC? It has hardly shown itself to be unbiased. Now then, need I remind all of you of the reaction to Jenin, when Israel actually endangered its troops to minimize civilian casualties. They could have bombed Jenin from the air. They did not. However, it made no difference. There was still an outcry over Israel’s “terrible action.” Quite frankly, if I were on the Israeli side, I might adopt the attitude that trying to minimize civilian casualties does not make things any better, so why bother? However, aside from that, could someone post Israel’s other options for dealing with this person? I can’t recall why they were so eager to take him out, either…maybe someone could remind me. I know Israel would have to have a good reason, does anyone here really think that Israel would risk an outcry over its military actions if there is no good reason for taking them? ---
**Author:** ![ElwoodCuse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/edb3f5/32.png) [@ElwoodCuse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElwoodCuse)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2002, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-tolerate-israels-strongarm-tactics/121619/40 "2002-07-31T18:20:02Z")
If the BBC is biased, then what is unbiased? Just curious. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-tolerate-israels-strongarm-tactics/121619.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-tolerate-israels-strongarm-tactics/121619.md?page=3)