# Why do we treat infertility as if it's cancer? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 2, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226 "2010-11-02T16:43:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/201 "2010-11-03T00:17:09Z")
I find the OP totally uncomprehending. People _want_ to have babies, which is why infertility is treated like it’s a problem. It _is_ a problem for the great majority of people–people who actually want to have children. As for the suggestion that this comes from self-absorption: any desire can be construed as being self-absorbed. Is my desire to live tomorrow self-absorbed? Is my desire to have functioning ears self-absorbed? ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 12:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/202 "2010-11-03T00:18:27Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It has been pointed out to you that this is bullshit, and that loss is a necessary component of grief. That’s what the word means. Don’t use words if you don’t know what they mean, and don’t cheapen real grief by comparing it to simple frustration. Dio, here we go again: [Google results for “I am grieved by …”](http://www.google.com/search?q=i+am+grieved+by&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a) [She is grieved by …](http://www.google.com/search?q=i+am+grieved+by&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#sclient=psy&hl=en&client=firefox-a&hs=6Pm&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&source=hp&q=She+is+grieved+by&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&psj=1&fp=2304850557947867) [He is grieved by]([Google Search](http://www.google.com/search?q=i+am+grieved+by&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a#sclient=psy&hl=en&) client=firefox-a&hs=156&rls=org.mozilla:en-US%3Aofficial&q=He+is+grieved+by&aq=&aqi=&aql=&oq=He+is+grieved+by&gs\_rfai=&psj=1&fp=2304850557947867) It is disingenuous – no, it is outright dishonest – of you to pretend that the word _grieve_ is never used to mean _saddened_. But that doesn’t bother you, because you are not interested in debating with integrity. [Also consider this:](http://www.thefreedictionary.com/grieved) > [@](#): > > Synonyms: grieve, lament, mourn, sorrow > These verbs mean to feel, show, or express grief, sadness, or regret: grieved over her father’s death; lamenting about the decline in academic standards; mourns for lost hopes; sorrowed by the level of poverty. > Antonym: rejoice > Usage Note: Traditionally, the transitive verb grieve, meaning “to cause to be sorrowful; distress,” has taken as its direct object the person who is sorrowful or distressed, as in It grieves me to see so many homeless in the city. In addition to this use of the word, a newer syntactic pattern has developed, in which the direct object refers to that which causes one sorrow or distress. Sixty-two percent of the Usage Panel approves of this use, as in She took a week off to attend her father’s funeral and grieve his loss. The Panel, however, largely frowns upon extending the semantic domain of the transitive verb grieve to mean “to file a formal or an official grievance.” Only 14 percent approves of its use in a context in which a coach who was asked to resign had grieved his dismissal. This strong reaction may be due to the discomfort of extending a solemn, mournful term into less somber situations; however, this sense is useful in the context of union-management labor relations. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 12:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/203 "2010-11-03T00:20:52Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Don’t use words if you don’t know what they mean, and don’t cheapen real grief by comparing it to simple frustration. One could say the very same thing to you. You know absolutely nothing about this subject. You should stop talking about it. “We” don’t treat infertility as if it’s cancer, although sometimes cancer is the cause of infertility. In the real world we – the rational people of the world – treat infertility both as a medical condition and something that deserves to be recognized as an often very painful physical and psychological experience. All you keep doing whenever this subject comes up is to prove that you are not capable of rational thought or normal human empathy for people who have not been as reproductively lucky as you have. To anyone who reads your posts you come across as both insufferably smug and inexcusably jerkish. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 12:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/204 "2010-11-03T00:23:11Z")
> [@Neeps](#): > > I really have to ask…why are we bothering to do this _again_ with Dio? Every discusion, no matter the topic, goes the same way. Actually, this is different; this isn’t a thread hijacked by **Dio** , this is a thread started by **Dio** on a controversial topic. People are free to not participate in it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 12:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/205 "2010-11-03T00:46:07Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > **Dio** , did it perhaps occur to you that, since the second sentence in the post you quoted was obviously a jest, the entire post was not meant seriously? > > Another non-rhetorical question, though I’d not be surprised to either receive no answer at all or a disingenuous one.) If you were joing I apolgize, but lately I get pitted at the drop of a hat so it was believable to me. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 12:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/206 "2010-11-03T00:47:40Z")
> [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](#): > > I find the OP totally uncomprehending. People _want_ to have babies, which is why infertility is treated like it’s a problem. It _is_ a problem for the great majority of people–people who actually want to have children. People WANT fabulous wealth and orgies with supermodels too, that doesn’t mean it’s tragic if they can’t get it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 12:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/207 "2010-11-03T00:50:39Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > One could say the very same thing to you. You know absolutely nothing about this subject. You don’t know what I know about the subject. > [@](#): > > All you keep doing whenever this subject comes up is to prove that you are not capable of rational thought or normal human empathy for people who have not been as reproductively lucky as you have. To anyone who reads your posts you come across as both insufferably smug and inexcusably jerkish. I’m not smug. I just view myself as simply lucky, not entitled, to have been reproductively successful. I have one brother who is not able to have kids with his wife, another brother who has suffered through a miscarriage and a sister-in-law who went through the ringer with trying to have a baby and eventually adopted (intersting tidbit. The girl they adopted is the biological daughter of a well-known NFL football player. Not a superstar, but a name that would be recognizable to most football fans). ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 12:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/208 "2010-11-03T00:52:26Z")
Thanks everybody for your answers. I wasn’t trying to hurt anybody’s feelings, and I shouldn’t have started the thread. Apologies to anyone I offended. I’m going to go watch the election results through my fingers now. ---
**Author:** ![Maeglin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8baadc/32.png) [@Maeglin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Maeglin)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/209 "2010-11-03T01:01:09Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m going to go watch the election results through my fingers now. Does that improve the vision in your left eye? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 1:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/210 "2010-11-03T01:04:35Z")
Not one bit. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/211 "2010-11-03T01:24:06Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > People WANT fabulous wealth and orgies with supermodels too, that doesn’t mean it’s tragic if they can’t get it. Here’s where we part company. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/212 "2010-11-03T01:27:41Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > You don’t know what I know about the subject. > > I’m not smug. I just view myself as simply lucky, not entitled, to have been reproductively successful. I have one brother who is not able to have kids with his wife, another brother who has suffered through a miscarriage and a sister-in-law who went through the ringer with trying to have a baby and eventually adopted (intersting tidbit. The girl they adopted is the biological daughter of a well-known NFL football player. Not a superstar, but a name that would be recognizable to most football fans). I know whenever this subject comes up you come across as knowing absolutely nothing about it and being horribly disdainful to those who do. Why the hell does it bother you if people express pain when confronted with infertility? Why are you so smugly dismissive of their real understandable sense of loss and hurt? Infertility is most often not just I want a baby and I can’t have one. Infertility is about I want a baby and I can’t have one because. I can’t have one because I have endometriosis. I can’t have one because I have PCOS or premature ovarian failure or fibroids or anyone of dozens of other medical conditions. No, they aren’t cancer. Well mostly as some people really are infertile because they’ve had cancer. But to pretend oh it’s no biggie and you’re a whiner to even bring it up is simply cruel. I doubt you would feel the same way if you had not been able to have three healthy children without fuss even when your wife is in her forties. IRL would you be such a jerk to someone who told you they had multiple surgeries for endo? To someone who went through early menopause at 34? To someone struggling to lose weight because of a propensity to gain pounds as a result of a medical condition? If you wouldn’t why is it okay to do so on the internet? ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/213 "2010-11-03T01:35:33Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Yes it is. That’s the definition. No it isn’t. It’s a defintion, not the definition. From [dictionary.com](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/grief) > [@](#): > > 1. keen mental suffering or distress\*\* over affliction _or_ loss\*\*; sharp sorrow;\*\*\* painful regret\*\*\*. > 2. _ **a cause or occasion of keen distress or sorrow** _. You are simpy wrong about this. Admit it. Or don’t. Your error is obvious and clear. ---
**Author:** ![MsWhatsit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/eb8c5e/32.png) [@MsWhatsit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsWhatsit)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/214 "2010-11-03T01:59:01Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Not one bit. This is completely off-topic, but as another person with a vision impairment I thought you might appreciate this story. Several years ago, one of Mr. Whatsit’s family members found one of those “Magic Eye” books and thought he would just love it, because it seemed like the type of cool, quirky thing he would appreciate. (The “Magic Eye” pictures are those ones where you stare at the picture and let your eyes unfocus and after a minute or two, you are looking at a 3-dimensional picture.) This person even _knew_ about his eye injury, but I guess she didn’t think through its implications. He thanked her graciously for the book anyway. He likes to bring this up whenever the topic of conversation turns to “bad Christmas gifts you have received.” Anyway. Carry on. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ce73a5/32.png) [@The\_Bith\_Shuffle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Bith_Shuffle)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/215 "2010-11-03T02:23:50Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > People WANT fabulous wealth and orgies with supermodels too, that doesn’t mean it’s tragic if they can’t get it. That’s because failing to have orgies with supermodels does not rob you of one of life’s most important aspects. Reproduction is a fundamental part of human life. Not reproducing, whether because one chose not to, because one is a loser, or because one is infertile, is often a source of emotional pain for people. Should we think of blindness or terminal illness as not being tragic too? How about we compare wanting to have vision to wanting an orgy with supermodels. Suggesting that it is selfish to want to be able to see is no less ridiculous than saying it is selfish to want to have children. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 3:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/216 "2010-11-03T03:41:29Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > You have been making your own case for yourself over 50,000 times—The number of SDMB posters who take you seriously (on virtually any subject) is dwindling each and every time you type something out, in your laughable, pathetic, pathological need for validation and/or controversy. > > I long for the day when you are forced to go somewhere else for attention, as everyone around here has learned to finally ignore you once and for all… **Moderator note**. **Dio** , MUST you post OP’s like this one? You must know that the ability to have children is dearly important to a great many if not most people. What do you expect from an OP that says basically, “WTF is with all this bizarre sympathy that goes out to the infertile?” **MPB** this is not an excuse for you to spew insults outside the Pit. Expect a warning, yet again, in due course. ---
**Author:** ![MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c0e974/32.png) [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MPB_in_Salt_Lake)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/217 "2010-11-03T04:02:01Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > **Moderator note**. > > **Dio** , MUST you post OP’s like this one? You must know that the ability to have children is dearly important to a great many if not most people. What do you expect from an OP that says basically, “WTF is with all this bizarre sympathy that goes out to the infertile?” > > **MPB** this is not an excuse for you to spew insults outside the Pit. Expect a warning, yet again, in due course. Warning recieved and understood, though I stand by every word I wrote. I will have to learn to practice what I preach and ignore those who only seek to inflame and stir controversy… ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/218 "2010-11-03T04:09:04Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > **Moderator note**. > > **Dio** , MUST you post OP’s like this one? You must know that the ability to have children is dearly important to a great many if not most people. What do you expect from an OP that says basically, “WTF is with all this bizarre sympathy that goes out to the infertile?” > > **MPB** this is not an excuse for you to spew insults outside the Pit. Expect a warning, yet again, in due course. In \*\*Dio’s \*\*defense, the bizarre sympathy for people who are infertile was a mystery to a lot of us. Surprisingly, this thread helped explain it. Especially the analogy to sex 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Zsofia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/7bcc69/32.png) [@Zsofia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zsofia)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/219 "2010-11-03T15:10:35Z")
Seriously, I hate, loathe, and despise the general Dio Show, but he’s on the money with this one. ETA - well, not so much after the first few pages. But the general sentiment is not assholish. ---
**Author:** ![cwthree](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9de0a6/32.png) [@cwthree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cwthree)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/220 "2010-11-03T15:28:00Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > **Moderator note**. > > **Dio** , MUST you post OP’s like this one? You must know that the ability to have children is dearly important to a great many if not most people. What do you expect from an OP that says basically, “WTF is with all this bizarre sympathy that goes out to the infertile?” As a person who has simply never experienced a desire either to procreate or to parent, I appreciate that someone asked the question directly, rather than as a side question in an unrelated thread. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226.md?page=12)