# Why do we treat infertility as if it's cancer? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 2, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226 "2010-11-02T16:43:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/221 "2010-11-03T15:53:14Z")
> [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](#): > > **Moderator note**. > > **Dio** , MUST you post OP’s like this one? You must know that the ability to have children is dearly important to a great many if not most people. What do you expect from an OP that says basically, “WTF is with all this bizarre sympathy that goes out to the infertile?” It was an honest question and I didn’t want to derail anyone else’s thread. This is hardly the most controversial OP we’ve ever seen here. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [November 3, 2010, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/222 "2010-11-03T18:29:51Z")
> [@Zsofia](#): > > Seriously, I hate, loathe, and despise the general Dio Show, but he’s on the money with this one. > > ETA - well, not so much after the first few pages. But the general sentiment is not assholish. The best analogy is the one that’s already been mentioned: Comparing it with sex. Nobody needs to be able to have sex to live a full and happy life. And yet, if someone wanted to be able to have sex and yet couldn’t because of a physiological/medical issue, it would be very distressing. Very likely such a person would go to a lot of trouble seeing various kinds of medical specialists trying to get the problem fixed. It’s often the same with infertility. Those women who want children don’t just “want” children, they crave children in a deep, instinctual, primal way in the same way that most of us crave sex. And when it doesn’t happen because of a medical issue then they also want, to the exten of their emotional/financial capabilities, to fix it. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 10:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/223 "2010-11-04T22:45:51Z")
FWIW we are infertile and are one of those whacky people who tried to have kids for 9 years. Finally adopted earlier this year. We werent particularly worried whether the child was ‘ours’ biologically or not, but there might be some misunderstandings about how easy adoption is. Here in Oz it can take 5+ years for international adoption, and local ones are rare and its basically a lottery because there are more parents than children unless you’re willing to take on children with some pretty serious developmental or physical issues. Secondly infertility isnt one thing - its multiple miscarriages, hormones being injected that can put a person all over the place emotionally, doctors telling you to ‘keep going, its looking good’, family stressing out at lack of grandchildren, people telling you left and right how to cope with it, or imagining what it would be like it if it happened to them, etc (often the last in my view is the biggest cause of overemotionality). If you havent done it, you probably wont understand it. Finally, theres the point where people around are tired of hearing about it and have decided you should stop, so this idea that people treat you like you have cancer is pretty funny, because they dont. They do get tired of hearing about it, they do stop calling, and they do start suggesting you have ‘problems’ if you want to keep going, even if you are doing OK functioning wise and arent making a big deal about it. Theres more to it than that, but hopefully it gives some idea. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 11:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/224 "2010-11-04T23:25:18Z")
OK I should resist, but on rereading miscarriage and the like isnt a loss or something you should grieve over but instead is just ‘simple frustration’? Seriously? Wow, just freaking wow. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/225 "2010-11-04T23:29:07Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > OK I should resist, but on rereading miscarriage and the like isnt a loss or something you should grieve over but instead is just ‘simple frustration’? Seriously? > > Wow, just freaking wow. Nope. I never said miscarriage wasn’t a loss. I said not being able to conceive wasn’t a loss. I don’t mind being disagreed with, but please don’t make up stuff I never said. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 11:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/226 "2010-11-04T23:43:58Z")
A very large part of ‘not being able to conceive’ is miscarriages. It sounds like you dont really know much about what ‘infertility’ can involve, which probably explains this whole mess of a thread. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 11:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/227 "2010-11-04T23:51:02Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > A very large part of ‘not being able to conceive’ is miscarriages. > > It sounds like you dont really know much about what ‘infertility’ can involve, which probably explains this whole mess of a thread. > > Otara I’ll save you a Dio-correction. Miscarrying implies conception; if no embryo were ever conceived, no fetus could exist to be spontaneously aborted. I think you meant to say that “A very large part of infertility is miscarriages.” I am sorry that you and your partner have been unable to have a child biologically; I hope y’all and your adopted child are well and happy. ---
**Author:** ![Nzinga\_Seated](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/b5ac83/32.png) [@Nzinga\_Seated](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nzinga_Seated)\ **Post date:** [November 4, 2010, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/228 "2010-11-04T23:52:53Z")
deleted. Skald said it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/229 "2010-11-05T00:02:36Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > A very large part of ‘not being able to conceive’ is miscarriages. I think you need to look up the definition of “conceive.” I specifically said in this thread that I wasn’t talking about miscarriages, but an inability to conceive. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/230 "2010-11-05T00:17:14Z")
My point was more that the two are not practically separable, hence the quotation marks, ut it wasnt expressed very clearly. As you point out, he will seize on that rather than admit the point, and I see he’s done that before Ive even finished. I dont mind at all that my child is not biologically mine as I said earlier, but thank you for the intention. Otara ---
**Author:** ![sugar\_and\_spice](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e8c25b/32.png) [@sugar\_and\_spice](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sugar_and_spice)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 12:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/231 "2010-11-05T00:17:33Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > It was an honest question and I didn’t want to derail anyone else’s thread. This is hardly the most controversial OP we’ve ever seen here. Usually when I ask “honest questions” I try to be non-judgmental and avoid statements like: > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I honestly think it’s a kind of self-absorbtion and entitlement that we shouldn’t feed into. I find people are more willing to give honest answers to honest questions when they don’t feel the need to answer to statements like the above. JMHO, YMMV. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/232 "2010-11-05T00:30:24Z")
Maybe its people not understanding IVF? As in you’ve always ‘conceived’ once that egg and sperm get to the dish. Its always a ‘miscarriage’ once it gets implanted. People take pictures of the egg on the monitor before it goes in. They count down the days until it doesnt happen. They view it as a potential child, not another period. Eh wasting my time. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 12:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/233 "2010-11-05T00:40:44Z")
I didn’t say anything about IVF or about fertility treatments at all. I talked about people who can’t get pregnant. Not about any kind of loss of anything material at any stage of any kind of conception or pregnancy. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 12:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/234 "2010-11-05T00:49:25Z")
“I have multiple people in my immediate family who have had problems with both infertility and miscarriages and not been self-absorbed about it” Uhuh, sure. Edit: thats in response to your ‘I wasnt talking about miscarriages’ claim btw. Otara ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/235 "2010-11-05T00:51:33Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > “I have multiple people in my immediate family who have had problems with both infertility and miscarriages and not been self-absorbed about it” > > Uhuh, sure. Sure is right. Why don’t you actually read what I fucking wrote. Especially all the parts where I said I wasn’t talking about miscarriages. The post you quoted was in response to people saying I hadn’t had any experience of anyone with infertility, not a statement about fucking miscarriages or fertility treatments or fucking eggs in petrie dishes. You are not exactly making a case against my perception of self-absorbtion, by the way. Stop trying to twist my words to make yourself a victim of shit I never said. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Whisperer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cat_whisperer/32/4839_2.png) [@Cat\_Whisperer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Whisperer)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/236 "2010-11-05T00:59:44Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > My point was more that the two are not practically separable,\ I think they are; someone who can’t conceive doesn’t get pregnant at all; that isn’t the same as not being to have a child because you keep miscarrying. I agree that the end result (no baby when you want a baby) is the same, but **Dio** didn’t start this thread about people who miscarry but rather about people who can’t conceive at all, and I’m not sure why you’re having such a hard time understanding that. I also agree that this isn’t even in the Top 10 of controversial thread topics; it’s emotionally-charged, sure, but that creates interesting discussions. ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/237 "2010-11-05T01:01:17Z")
I think the problem here, Dio, is that you don’t actually want an answer to your question; you want people to stop doing the thing you are asking about. Let me recap a little here. **Dio:** Why do we treat infertility as if it’s cancer? **Other Dopers:** We don’t. **Dio:** Yes we do. **ODs:** Well, we do treat it like it’s a disability. **Dio:** But it’s not a disability. \*\*ODs: \*\*Yes it is, for some values of the definition of “disability” _[explanation]_. **Dio:** No, it’s not a \*real \*disability. **ODs:** Well, sometimes people grieve their infertility, and we give them sympathy. **Dio:** But it’s not _real grief. **ODs:** Yes it is, for some values of the definition of “grief”[explanation]_. **Dio:** No, it’s not _real grief. They didn’t lose anything. **ODs:** Yes they did, for some values of the definition of “loss”[explanation]_. **Dio:** No, it’s not \*real \*loss. If you have unbending definitions that your interlocutors don’t agree with, meaningful discussion isn’t possible. If you want to understand, you need to accept that those words are commonly defined differently. If you simply want to insist that no one \*should \*consider infertility a disability, a source of grief, or a type of loss, the intellectually honest choice is to say so, rather than ask disingenuous questions. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/238 "2010-11-05T01:06:20Z")
You wrote that statement, swearing at me wont change that. You then tried to turn the discussion to ‘not being about that’ which is inherently ridiculous given most peoples infertility experiences. But its not like many people here dont know that I suspect. Otara ---
**Author:** ![emmaliminal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7bcc69/32.png) [@emmaliminal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/emmaliminal)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/239 "2010-11-05T01:08:12Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > My point was more that the two are not practically separable… > [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I think they are; someone who can’t conceive doesn’t get pregnant at all; that isn’t the same as not being to have a child because you keep miscarrying… and I’m not sure why you’re having such a hard time understanding that. I read **Otara** ’s statement as meaning that the two are not separable in the practice of dealing with them, medically and emotionally speaking, not that he doesn’t understand the difference. That is, a patient being treated for failure to conceive at all experiences many of the same things – doctor visits, hormone treatments, waiting, hoping, etc. – that a patient being treated for miscarriages does. Is that right? ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/240 "2010-11-05T01:14:39Z")
> [@Cat\_Whisperer](#): > > I think they are; someone who can’t conceive doesn’t get pregnant at all; that isn’t the same as not being to have a child because you keep miscarrying. I agree that the end result (no baby when you want a baby) is the same, but **Dio** didn’t start this thread about people who miscarry but rather about people who can’t conceive at all, and I’m not sure why you’re having such a hard time understanding that. They technically can be separate, but it was quite clear he _wasnt_ originally talking about them separately, as can be seen with the quote I gave about miscarriages, and his ‘thats it exactly’ comment about spending lots of money on IVF etc. He was talking about the general process of people going through the infertility saga, then started saying ‘I wasnt talking about that’ whenever a particular aspect was pointed out. If he meant that from the getgo, all I can say is he was spectacularly unclear in doing so. Otara [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226.md?page=13)