# Why do we treat infertility as if it's cancer? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 2, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226 "2010-11-02T16:43:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/261 "2010-11-05T15:57:29Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > When did I say people shouldn’t go through fertility treatments? I don’t give a shit if people go through fertility treatments. > > Cite for me standing in judgement? Um the words in your OP? > [@](#): > > [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13093720&postcount=1](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=13093720&postcount=1) > > Why do we treat infertility as if it’s cancer? > > So somebody can’t make a baby. So what? Why is that a tragedy? Why are we supposed to act like those people are some kind of unimaginable martyrs? what’s so terrible about not being able to make a baby? > > I honestly think it’s a kind of self-absorbtion and entitlement that we shouldn’t feed into. It’s not like anybody needs to make a baby, they just want to the same way they want to buy a new house or car. Nobody’s going to die if they can’t make a baby. Nobody suffers. Why are we supposed to care, and why don’t they just adopt? If you don’t think anyone needs to make a baby why did you make three of them? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/262 "2010-11-05T16:01:52Z")
I don’t think anyone needs a flat screen TV, but I have one. Saying someone doesn’t _need_ something is not the same as saying they shouldn’t have it. My kids weren’t planned anyway. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 4:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/263 "2010-11-05T16:08:57Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’ve already fielded these questions. None of our kids were planned, When we had our first child, we would not have qualified for adoption anyway, being broke. I actually have brought up the idea of fostering or perhaps adopting older kids (I’ve worked with kids who bounce around without families and it breaks my fucking heart), but my wife has shot me down. We are pretty much at capacity already. If we had more money and more space, I would be much more aggressive about trying to do it. Hey look, not everyone can “just adopt!” Who’d have thought it’s not the easy no-problem solution to infertility? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/264 "2010-11-05T16:22:04Z")
Fertility treatments are just as expensive as adoption, but adoption at least helps a kid who already exists and needs help. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 4:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/265 "2010-11-05T16:32:35Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Fertility treatments are just as expensive as adoption, but adoption at least helps a kid who already exists and needs help. Not even remotely true. Most infertility treatments are not expensive. A round of clomid and some monitoring at your local OB is quite inexpensive. A few rounds of IUI and more potent drugs can also be had for under 1k per try. Donor sperm is available for under $500. Even a round of IVF can be as little as 5k depending on the clinic. Edited to add that adoption can also fail. An adoptive mother may change her mind. The bio father can show up and dispute the adoption. Many countries have waiting lists and income and age guidelines that prospective parents may be unable to meet. Adoption isn’t always all that simple either. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/266 "2010-11-05T17:33:20Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Not that I think a loss of a fertilized egg before it implants deserves to be compared to a miscarriage. It might be disappointing, but come on, it’s not a miscarriage. If you think it is, then you think birth control pills cause abortion. So you are commenting about IVF surprise surprise. If birth control involved a surgical procedure to extract eggs, injecting hormones, implantation then waiting to see if it works or not then you’d have a point. Instead you’re simply showing yet again how clueless you are about the entire issue. Miscarriages even ended up being ‘good’ at times because it meant you were in with a chance as it showed implantation could actually occur. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 5:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/267 "2010-11-05T17:43:18Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > So you are commenting about IVF surprise surprise. I’m commenting about whether a failure to implant is the same as a miscarriage. IVF is not required for an egg to fail to implant. > [@](#): > > If birth control involved a surgical procedure to extract eggs, injecting hormones, implantation then waiting to see if it works or not then you’d have a point. Eggs fail to implant all the time without any surgery involved. Birth control pills can stop eggs from implanting. And hey, nobody’s _making_ you get surgery. That’s your choice and the consequences are your choice. How infertile people try to treat themslevs medically is not a subject of this thread. I’m only talking about the condition of infertility in and of itself. Incidentally, even an IVF egg that fails to implant is not a miscarriage or a lost baby. It’s just a failed attempt to get pregnant. Disappointing, yes. Tragedy, no. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/268 "2010-11-05T17:52:30Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m commenting about whether a failure to implant is the same as a miscarriage. IVF is not required for an egg to fail to implant. > > Eggs fail to implant all the time without any surgery involved. Birth control pills can stop eggs from implanting. And hey, nobody’s _making_ you get surgery. That’s your choice and the consequences are your choice. How infertile people try to treat themslevs medically is not a subject of this thread. I’m only talking about the condition of infertility in and of itself. > > Incidentally, even an IVF egg that fails to implant is not a miscarriage or a lost baby. It’s just a failed attempt to get pregnant. Disappointing, yes. Tragedy, no. Happening ONCE is not a tragedy. Happening MULTIPLE TIMES because of a biological problem that makes pregnancy impossible IS a tragedy. And before you get all pissy, I’m not using “tragedy” in the Greek drama sense; I’m using it in the emotionally-traumatic-&-deserving-of-sympathy-from-non-Vulcans sense. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/269 "2010-11-05T17:59:07Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > How infertile people try to treat themslevs medically is not a subject of this thread. I’m only talking about the condition of infertility in and of itself. Given that many people who face infertility seek out treatment you really can’t separate the two. It’s a rather meaningless distinction that seems to exist largely in your own mind. You have made your point of view on this one clear: the infertile should adopt rather than get treatment. People who don’t are selfish and self absorbed. Meanwhile people like yourself, who are lucky enough to have as many children as they please when they want them, are not being selfish when they choose to have babies rather than adopting. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/270 "2010-11-05T18:02:10Z")
Sometimes you just have to admit you don’t “get” it, but assume people have a good reason for feeling the way they do. I don’t “get” mourning over pets. I’ve had pets I’ve loved, and for sure I miss them. But they are not people, and I know they have a limited lifespan. I can’t imagine spending thousands of dollars (or even hundreds) on trying to save a pet, nor can I understand crying when they pass. But if someone comes up to me in tears because their beloved dog died, I’m not going to tell them “Hey, it’s just a dog.” I assume they have a good reason for feeling the greif that they feel. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 6:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/271 "2010-11-05T18:02:34Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > Happening ONCE is not a tragedy. Happening MULTIPLE TIMES because of a biological problem that makes pregnancy impossible IS a tragedy. No, that’s still just disappointing. Nobody died. I can sympathise with the frustration and siappointment. Calling it “tragic” is hyperbole, though. ---
**Author:** ![ENugent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/4af34b/32.png) [@ENugent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ENugent)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/272 "2010-11-05T18:03:32Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Edited to add that adoption can also fail. An adoptive mother may change her mind. The bio father can show up and dispute the adoption. Many countries have waiting lists and income and age guidelines that prospective parents may be unable to meet. Adoption isn’t always all that simple either. One of my co-workers was on the point of adopting when the birth mother elected to keep the child. Then he was diagnosed with leukemia. He had a bone marrow transplant which was spectacularly successful, but they still are pretty much disqualified from adopting at this point. His poor wife, who has suffered through _both_ infertility and the cancer of her spouse, and now will probably never have children. I’m not going to be so insensitive as to ask him, but from things he’s mentioned, I suspect that the infertility is actually harder on them in the long run, although the cancer was obviously also huge. They’re certainly in the same ballpark for them, anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/273 "2010-11-05T18:05:12Z")
> [@LavenderBlue](#): > > Given that many people who face infertility seek out treatment you really can’t separate the two. I certainly can and I have. Not everybody who is infertile spends thousands of doallrs trying to get pregnant. That’s an upscale prerogative, not a universal one. > [@](#): > > Meanwhile people like yourself, who are lucky enough to have as many children as they please when they want them, are not being selfish when they choose to have babies rather than adopting. None of my kids were planned. I didn’t “choose” them, they just happened. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/274 "2010-11-05T18:06:41Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Fertility treatments are just as expensive as adoption, but adoption at least helps a kid who already exists and needs help. Not everyone facing infertility have the option of treatments. This is why the are often so damn sad about it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 6:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/275 "2010-11-05T18:06:48Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Sometimes you just have to admit you don’t “get” it, but assume people have a good reason for feeling the way they do. > > I don’t “get” mourning over pets. I’ve had pets I’ve loved, and for sure I miss them. But they are not people, and I know they have a limited lifespan. I can’t imagine spending thousands of dollars (or even hundreds) on trying to save a pet, nor can I understand crying when they pass. > > But if someone comes up to me in tears because their beloved dog died, I’m not going to tell them “Hey, it’s just a dog.” I assume they have a good reason for feeling the greif that they feel. Mourning a dog is mourning something that actually existed. I understand frustrated desires, but I don’t understand mourning or grieving for babies that never existed. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/276 "2010-11-05T18:08:39Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Not everyone facing infertility have the option of treatments. This is why the are often so damn sad about it. I’m not saying they shouldn’t be sad or that people shouldn’t feel anything for them. It’s a question of degree. ---
**Author:** ![Otara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/a88e4f/32.png) [@Otara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Otara)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 6:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/277 "2010-11-05T18:09:24Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m commenting about whether a failure to implant is the same as a miscarriage. IVF is not required for an egg to fail to implant. > > Eggs fail to implant all the time without any surgery involved. Birth control pills can stop eggs from implanting. And hey, nobody’s _making_ you get surgery. That’s your choice and the consequences are your choice. How infertile people try to treat themslevs medically is not a subject of this thread. I’m only talking about the condition of infertility in and of itself. > > Incidentally, even an IVF egg that fails to implant is not a miscarriage or a lost baby. It’s just a failed attempt to get pregnant. Disappointing, yes. Tragedy, no. And to me that’s as dumb as saying noone made you have sex so why are you crying about having a miscarriage. It was your ‘choice’ to take that risk. Your position is ridiculous because you keep trying to make up uninformed rulesets about what level of grief people are allowed for x issue when these issues are not even able to really be separated out in the nice neat way you’re trying to do. It’s just lack of knowledge really, it’s just a pity you can’t admit it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/278 "2010-11-05T18:26:45Z")
> [@Otara](#): > > And to me that’s as dumb as saying noone made you have sex so why are you crying about having a miscarriage. It was your ‘choice’ to take that risk. No, a miscarriage actually involves a loss. ---
**Author:** ![LavenderBlue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e95f7d/32.png) [@LavenderBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LavenderBlue)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 6:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/279 "2010-11-05T18:38:40Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Sometimes you just have to admit you don’t “get” it, but assume people have a good reason for feeling the way they do. > > I don’t “get” mourning over pets. I’ve had pets I’ve loved, and for sure I miss them. But they are not people, and I know they have a limited lifespan. I can’t imagine spending thousands of dollars (or even hundreds) on trying to save a pet, nor can I understand crying when they pass. > > But if someone comes up to me in tears because their beloved dog died, I’m not going to tell them “Hey, it’s just a dog.” I assume they have a good reason for feeling the greif that they feel. This. I have two cats. I love my kitties. But they’re just cats to me. If they died tomorrow I would feel sad but I wouldn’t feel a sense of morning. A month or two later I’d go to the shelter and adopt another kitty. OTOH, my husband’s grandmother had a little apricot poodle that she kept after her husband died as her only companion. When the dog died she was incredibly hurt. It would have been highly jerkish to downplay her feelings of loss. > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > No, a miscarriage actually involves a loss. Infertility is also a loss. The loss of a dream of a family you can create whenever you want. The loss of the rational notion that once you shuck off the birth control all you need to do is have sex with someone you love and you’ll have the family you want. Why shouldn’t people feel sad over this loss? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 5, 2010, 6:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/280 "2010-11-05T18:49:29Z")
I didn’t say that they can’t feel sad, but it’s not a loss, it’s a frustrated desire. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226.md?page=15)