# Why do we treat infertility as if it's cancer? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 2, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226 "2010-11-02T16:43:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 7:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/301 "2010-11-09T07:37:42Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I haven’t said anything about what people are “allowed” to feel. Yes, yes, yes you did > [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I’m not saying they shouldn’t be sad or that people shouldn’t feel anything for them. It’s a question of degree. Right there you said gave permission for people to be sad, or for people to empathize, and, by implication, not to feel what you stated in your OP. Then there’s just the entire thread. There are three purposes for this type of thread: 1. Pure curiosity. This is belied by the fact that, when given the answer, you argued with it. You argued with how someone else felt, which obviously makes no sense. 2. To try and offend people: I’m taking you at your word that this was not your intention 3. To try and put forth a proposition. And what would that proposition be? That people shouldn’t treat the infertile with the level of sympathy that they do, and that people shouldn’t feel grief over what you do not consider a loss. The third one is the only one that makes sense. And telling other people what they should feel or how much empathy they should have, or how they are allowed to feel about something is offensive. And that’s why people were annoyed. Throw in your utter cluelessness that this was happening, and lack of any acknowledgment of the other viewpoints, and it was downright offensive. I’m glad that you at least figured out the latter part, but you still seem to not get the former. You did specifically say what people are allowed to feel. And that is not your prerogative. ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/302 "2010-11-09T16:34:18Z")
> [@emmaliminal](#): > > I think the problem here, Dio, is that you don’t actually want an answer to your question; you want people to stop doing the thing you are asking about. > > Let me recap a little here. > > **Dio:** Why do we treat infertility as if it’s cancer? > **Other Dopers:** We don’t. > **Dio:** Yes we do. > **ODs:** Well, we do treat it like it’s a disability. > **Dio:** But it’s not a disability. > \*\*ODs: \*\*Yes it is, for some values of the definition of “disability” _[explanation]_. > **Dio:** No, it’s not a \*real \*disability. > **ODs:** Well, sometimes people grieve their infertility, and we give them sympathy. > **Dio:** But it’s not _real grief. > **ODs:** Yes it is, for some values of the definition of “grief”[explanation]_. > **Dio:** No, it’s not _real grief. They didn’t lose anything. > **ODs:** Yes they did, for some values of the definition of “loss”[explanation]_. > **Dio:** No, it’s not \*real \*loss. > > If you have unbending definitions that your interlocutors don’t agree with, meaningful discussion isn’t possible. If you want to understand, you need to accept that those words are commonly defined differently. If you simply want to insist that no one \*should \*consider infertility a disability, a source of grief, or a type of loss, the intellectually honest choice is to say so, rather than ask disingenuous questions. Great post, QFT, could have saved me the trouble of reading 6 pages of this nonsense. **Dio** , any chance you’d admit to the fact you’ve been completely wrong in what the words grief, disability and loss mean? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/303 "2010-11-09T16:37:03Z")
If I was wrong, I’d admit it. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/304 "2010-11-09T16:53:56Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If I was wrong, I’d admit it. That is clearly not supported by the evidence. So far as I can see, you never even admitted that you were wrong about the meaning of _grieve_ and _grief_ – i.e., your claim that they refer only to sadness at a death. Multiple posters, including me, showed you that there were other definitions. And for reasons unrelated to this thread, I had occasion to check the etymology of the words in the Oed, and the sadness-due-to-a-death are not even the oldest defintions. (I’m sorry I can’t link to it; the online OED requies a subscription.) Are you prepared to admit to being wrong even about that? ---
**Author:** ![diku](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/4af34b/32.png) [@diku](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/diku)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/305 "2010-11-09T17:36:09Z")
I honestly don’t know why anyone is bothering. Seriously. He’s not going to back down and admit he’s wrong. For the record, if people want to spend their money on IVF and adoption, that’s their business. If people want to overly-sympathize (in your eyes) with people that are infertile, again, that’s their business. You don’t like it, fine, that’s your business. How about you mind your own, and silently judge everyone else. Just cause you can post to a message board doesn’t mean you should. Well, crap, fell into my own trap. I guess I’m more arguing for him just to shut it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/306 "2010-11-09T18:11:58Z")
I never said I gave a rat’s ass if people get IVF. I don’t. ---
**Author:** ![carm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/c2a13f/32.png) [@carm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carm)\ **Post date:** [November 9, 2010, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/307 "2010-11-09T19:33:00Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > If I was wrong, I’d admit it. Ok. You’re right, the dictionary is wrong. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226.md?page=15)