# Why do we treat infertility as if it's cancer? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [November 2, 2010, 4:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226 "2010-11-02T16:43:23Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 6
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/101 "2010-11-02T20:11:31Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > I can understand the desire for sex being biological (babies being a natural by product of sex, of course), but I don’t see how the desire for a baby (which is separated from the act that produces it by nine months) would have evolved evolutionarily. > > It’s very difficult to disentangle what’s biological versus what is cultural, since every functioning human being is influenced by the culture they live in. And (not surprisingly) the cultures that survive tend to be the ones that encourage reproduction. > > I don’t think “baby fever” is any more biological than the “midlife crisis.” Really? The point of reproduction is to make sure your DNA survives. Why do animals die for their babies or the chance to reproduce? (It can’t be cultural!) The drive to reproduce is as old as humankind. It is not a recent cultural idea, whereas midlife crisis is. ETA - animals will protect their eggs/pregnant mothers with their lives even after the sex act is complete. It is not just a drive for sex, the drive is to successfully reproduce. ---
**Author:** ![whole\_bean](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/96bed5/32.png) [@whole\_bean](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whole_bean)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/102 "2010-11-02T20:14:48Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > NoI’m not upset. People are attacking me, I’m not attacking them. horseshit. you, from the OP > [@](#): > > I honestly think it’s a kind of self-absorbtion and entitlement that we shouldn’t feed into. ---
**Author:** ![Peeta\_Mellark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bc8723/32.png) [@Peeta\_Mellark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peeta_Mellark)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/103 "2010-11-02T20:37:57Z")
> [@MPB\_in\_Salt\_Lake](#): > > You have been making your own case for yourself over 50,000 times—The number of SDMB posters who take you seriously (on virtually any subject) is dwindling each and every time you type something out, in your laughable, pathetic, pathological need for validation and/or controversy. > > I long for the day when you are forced to go somewhere else for attention, as everyone around here has learned to finally ignore you once and for all… This is the thread when I started mentally narrating all of **Dio** ’s posts in Sheldon Cooper’s voice from _The Big Bang Theory_. It really makes a lot more sense that way. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 8:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/104 "2010-11-02T20:39:42Z")
> [@Velma](#): > > I agree with that…it seems odd that you feel that kind of pressure. I have never seen an infertile couple get the kind of support/sympathy a person who is terminally ill gets (or even a person with cancer who is not terminal.) I would expect that if you gave anyone the choice of being infertile vs. being terminally ill with cancer, 99% of people would choose infertility. And yet they treat infertile people as if they’re dying and inist – on this board – that fertility treatments are just as important as chemotherapy for cancer. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 8:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/105 "2010-11-02T20:40:48Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > horseshit. you, from the OP Who, in this thread or on this board, does that statement attack? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/106 "2010-11-02T20:42:58Z")
> [@whole\_bean](#): > > you think this makes the point that the infertile are treated the same as the terminally ill? you’ve got to be fucking kidding me. I think it makes the point that anyone who doesn’t show the proper reverence is accused of being hostile or insensitive. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 8:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/107 "2010-11-02T20:46:19Z")
> [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](#): > > No one has averred that child-free persons are deficient, at least not that I have seen. > > We have asserted that persons who wish to beget biological children and are unable to do so are grieved by that, and that such grief is legitimate. This is bullshit. That’s not grief, that’s just not getting something they want. Calling it “grief” is exactly the kind of hyperbole I’m talking about. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/108 "2010-11-02T20:47:42Z")
> [@Neeps](#): > > I still don’t know what social circles you run in where a) people are openly talking about their infertility and b) where the expectation is that people are going to be fawning over them in sympathy. The idea that we are expecting the same level of sympathy as someone with a terminal disease is…laughable. Then why do they say that fertitlity treatments are the same as chemotherapy? Why are they saying it’s equivalent to grieving a death? ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 8:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/109 "2010-11-02T20:52:12Z")
> [@Velma](#): > > Really? The point of reproduction is to make sure your DNA survives. Why do animals die for their babies or the chance to reproduce? (It can’t be cultural!) > The drive to reproduce is as old as humankind. It is not a recent cultural idea, whereas midlife crisis is. > > ETA - animals will protect their eggs/pregnant mothers with their lives even after the sex act is complete. It is not just a drive for sex, the drive is to successfully reproduce. It’s true that animals will fight to the death for a chance to mate. They’ll also die for their offspring. But what I’m asserting is that the infertile ones aren’t lamenting over their infertility. The idea that they would hold the abstract concept of a future baby in their minds, and compare that counterfactual with their present state seems highly unlikely to me. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/110 "2010-11-02T20:53:58Z")
I think a better metaphor for Dio, who has issues with sex, might be romantic love. Imagine you have some problem that means you still have the desire to love and be loved in a romantic relationship, but for whatever reason you know this will never happen again. Now plenty of people live perfectly fine without love. Some people even prefer it that way. But for most people, knowing you would never be in a romantic relationship again would be devestating, doubly so if you were the type of person who dreamed about what your wedding dress would be like. ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/111 "2010-11-02T20:56:47Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > Then why do they say that fertitlity treatments are the same as chemotherapy? Why are they saying it’s equivalent to grieving a death? Just to clarify - are ‘they’ society in general or are you basing this idea on one post on this message board? Because from the OP it sounds like you think there is general pressure now in mainstream society to treat infertile people like you would treat someone with cancer. That is the idea I think people here are responding to (and the idea that infertile people don’t deserve any sympathy at all). I haven’t seen or experienced that kind of reaction. If the thread is bashing one post, then I think you are giving it too much attention. People express all kinds of extreme views here that don’t conform to societal norms. ---
**Author:** ![perfectparanoia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a5b964/32.png) [@perfectparanoia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/perfectparanoia)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/112 "2010-11-02T20:58:53Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This is bullshit. That’s not grief, that’s just not getting something they want. Calling it “grief” is exactly the kind of hyperbole I’m talking about. Try this. In the course of three years have seven miscarriages. Seven times that you imagined the child inside you being born and being a parent to that child. Try that and you can definitely be entitled to that opinion. Until then, I GRIEVED each of those losses. (As did my husband, my parents, my sister…) That is my brand of infertility. Was it cancer? No. Was it heartbreaking and life-altering? You bet it was. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/113 "2010-11-02T21:00:41Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This is bullshit. That’s not grief, that’s just not getting something they want. Calling it “grief” is exactly the kind of hyperbole I’m talking about. Thanks for letting me know how I feel about my own situation. And for completely and utterly discounting what I wrote on the first page of this very thread, trying to shed some light on it for people who can’t relate. You really are a piece of work. ---
**Author:** ![Velma](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/85e7bf/32.png) [@Velma](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Velma)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 9:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/114 "2010-11-02T21:02:58Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > It’s true that animals will fight to the death for a chance to mate. They’ll also die for their offspring. But what I’m asserting is that the infertile ones aren’t lamenting over their infertility. The idea that they would hold the abstract concept of a future baby in their minds, and compare that counterfactual with their present state seems highly unlikely to me. I believe (but may be mistaken) that some species of animals do become depressed/distressed when their attempts to reproduce don’t result in a baby. Don’t some animals attempt to steal others’ offspring or eggs if they don’t have any? Isn’t that proof of the desire for offspring? What about animal mothers who ‘adopt’ other babies as their own? Is that proof of the motherly biological desire to nurture and raise babies in and of itself? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/115 "2010-11-02T21:04:38Z")
> [@perfectparanoia](#): > > Try this. In the course of three years have seven miscarriages. Seven times that you imagined the child inside you being born and being a parent to that child. > > Try that and you can definitely be entitled to that opinion. Until then, I GRIEVED each of those losses. (As did my husband, my parents, my sister…) > > That is my brand of infertility. > > Was it cancer? No. Was it heartbreaking and life-altering? You bet it was. This is still not comparable to simple infertility, in which there is nothing to grieve. ---
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/116 "2010-11-02T21:04:45Z")
I only look for sympathy and advice from immediate family and close friends (only three of my friends know we’re struggling, only one knows the details). I think most people keep these kinds of issue private in real life, but perhaps not on message boards (like SDMB). I find that people are more open and honest online, and look for advice or sympathy because there is a huge number of people with a huge variety of experiences online vs. in real life. Comparing the posts on a message board to real life isn’t really fair, since none of us act or express feelings in the same way in both situations (internet vs. real life). I have never, in real life, had anyone tell me to be more sensitive to the ‘infertile couple’, or be overly sympathetic to me because of what we’re going through. Probably because people don’t really talk about it in real life. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/117 "2010-11-02T21:06:46Z")
> [@Beadalin](#): > > Thanks for letting me know how I feel about my own situation. And for completely and utterly discounting what I wrote on the first page of this very thread, trying to shed some light on it for people who can’t relate. > > You really are a piece of work. Do you really think that not being able to conceive a child is equivalent to having a child die? ---
**Author:** ![EmAnJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/d2c977/32.png) [@EmAnJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EmAnJ)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/118 "2010-11-02T21:07:11Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > This is still not comparable to simple infertility, in which there is nothing to grieve. You need to define what you mean by infertility then, because of lot of infertile couples do conceive, but lose it early. I have a recent loss, as well as one a number of years ago. I’m still ‘infertile’. ---
**Author:** ![Beadalin](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/3be4f8/32.png) [@Beadalin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Beadalin)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/119 "2010-11-02T21:09:00Z")
I know for a fucking fact that I grieved, and still get pangs now and then. If you can point me to anywhere that anyone equated the death of a child with not being able to conceive, I’d appreciate it. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [November 2, 2010, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226/120 "2010-11-02T21:11:35Z")
I mean not being able to conceive at all. Of course I feel sympathy for miscarriages. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226.md?page=5) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-we-treat-infertility-as-if-its-cancer/559226.md?page=7)