# Why do women like "Slash Fiction" man on man action? Kirk/Spock! That's just wrong! **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 21, 2004, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-women-like-slash-fiction-man-on-man-action-kirk-spock-thats-just-wrong/246358 "2004-05-21T14:23:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 9\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 2:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-women-like-slash-fiction-man-on-man-action-kirk-spock-thats-just-wrong/246358/21 "2004-05-22T02:49:02Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > Also, there’s the subtext to consider. I can’t speak for other fandoms, but there’s so much gay subtext in **Angel** that it very nearly is text. As Giles once said, “I believe the subtext here is rapidly becoming text”. > [@](#): > > My favorite was the episode where Angel jumped on Wes naked and held him against the floor for a few second. Refresh my memory; which ep was that??? _roots through box o’ tapes._ > [@](#): > > and they were the best gay dads ever. Yeah, until that little kidnapping incident 😃 ---
**Author:** ![shy\_guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a6a055/32.png) [@shy\_guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shy_guy)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 3:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-women-like-slash-fiction-man-on-man-action-kirk-spock-thats-just-wrong/246358/22 "2004-05-22T03:08:44Z")
> [@](#): > > Also, there’s the subtext to consider. I can’t speak for other fandoms, but there’s so much gay subtext in Angel that it very nearly is text. Pepperlandgirl makes a really good point. I think there tends to be more slash when it comes to shows that are already kind of slashy in themselves. I mean, you barely have to do any work to write Smallville slash, and there are a hojillion Firefly slash fics when that show hardly aired. ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-women-like-slash-fiction-man-on-man-action-kirk-spock-thats-just-wrong/246358/23 "2004-05-22T03:40:53Z")
> [@Annie](#): > > As Giles once said, “I believe the subtext here is rapidly becoming text”. > > Refresh my memory; which ep was that??? _roots through box o’ tapes._ Heh, the same ep where Angel wore the pink helmet. **First Impressions** 2.03. ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-women-like-slash-fiction-man-on-man-action-kirk-spock-thats-just-wrong/246358/24 "2004-05-22T04:52:52Z")
> [@pepperlandgirl](#): > > Heh, the same ep where Angel wore the pink helmet. **First Impressions** 2.03. “Hop on, gorgeous!” Yeah, that slash writes itself. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e9a140/32.png) [@Miss\_Purl\_McKnittington](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Purl_McKnittington)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 5:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-women-like-slash-fiction-man-on-man-action-kirk-spock-thats-just-wrong/246358/25 "2004-05-22T05:09:07Z")
Heh. You find slash disturbing? I find the weird incest stories that people in the Harry Potter and LotR fandoms craft FAR more disturbing. (Those are the only two I’ve read. Well, and a little Sherlock Holmes, which is generally not _as_ disturbing.) It only gets weirder in the HP-verse when the author decides that ALL the characters are going to be in horribly age inappropriate relationships . . . gah! Now _that’s_ a peeve of mine – I’m perfectly cool with slashy relationships. Heck, a Lupin/Black relationship even makes sense. But there’s no need for Ginny or Hermione or Draco to seduce Professor Snape, okay? (Or DUMBLEDORE!) Even if all the pairings conveniently happen in seventh year. Argh. Sorry. The Snape luvverin’ just twigs me out. Anyway, rest assured that there are stranger things out there than Kirk/Spock slash. ---
**Author:** ![DocCathode](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/doccathode/32/18773_2.png) [@DocCathode](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DocCathode)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-women-like-slash-fiction-man-on-man-action-kirk-spock-thats-just-wrong/246358/26 "2004-05-22T05:18:16Z")
> [@lillalette](#): > > Heh. You find slash disturbing? I find the weird incest stories that people in the Harry Potter and LotR fandoms craft FAR more disturbing. . Than your lucky stars my selfcontrol has won a rare victory and this post does not contain Dawn/Buffy, and Connor/Angel ---
**Author:** ![Lamia](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/8e7dd6/32.png) [@Lamia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamia)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-women-like-slash-fiction-man-on-man-action-kirk-spock-thats-just-wrong/246358/27 "2004-05-22T06:52:41Z")
> [@lillalette](#): > > But there’s no need for Ginny or Hermione or Draco to seduce Professor Snape, okay? (Or DUMBLEDORE!) Even if all the pairings conveniently happen in seventh year. I too am troubled that such stories even exist. Hogwarts is usually portrayed in the books as a great school, the sort any kid would love to attend. Sure, some classes are boring and some teachers are unfair, but most are good. Some kids are bullies, but most are nice. The stuff students learn is interesting and useful, and they have plenty of opportunity to play games, eat candy, and have fun with their friends. It’s a bit upsetting to me that some people can look at the setting Rowling created and say “You know what would make this idealized learning institution even better? If teachers were screwing their adolescent students!” And aside from being pervy, it’s not even remotely consistent with the text. I can buy that the administration _might_ be willing to turn a blind eye to late-teens students gettin’ busy with each other, but there’s no way Dumbledore would tolerate sexual relationships between teachers and students. And under Muggle law at least, it wouldn’t be legal even if the student were of age. But people have the right to write whatever weirdo stories they like, just as I have the right to keep far, far away from them. ---
**Author:** ![vivalostwages](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/d07c76/32.png) [@vivalostwages](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vivalostwages)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 7:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-women-like-slash-fiction-man-on-man-action-kirk-spock-thats-just-wrong/246358/28 "2004-05-22T07:22:42Z")
> [@racinchikki](#): > > You seem to say this with an air of incredulity. Have you read the same books I have? They’re practically MARRIED to each other! Yes, I’ve read a lot of them. No, it wasn’t incredulity. I would have used the Incredulous Smiley for that. Just pointing out a fact. ---
**Author:** ![Miss\_Mapp](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miss_mapp/32/369_2.png) [@Miss\_Mapp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miss_Mapp)\ **Post date:** [May 22, 2004, 12:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-women-like-slash-fiction-man-on-man-action-kirk-spock-thats-just-wrong/246358/29 "2004-05-22T12:29:54Z")
About text and plausibility: I don’t know about anyone else, but when I’m writing a slashy story, I’m not seeking to write a dissertation on “Homoerotic Subtext in Star TreK” or in LOTR, or whatever. This is not my doctoral thesis; it’s a sex fantasy. I’ll use whatever I can get out of the book, film, TV series, etc. as a basis for story ideas, but I’m not trying to provide incontrovertable textual proof that my two chosen characters are actually “doing it.” After all, if that were a Yes or No question with only one possible answer, then I’d only have one story to write about them, and where’s the fun in that? The more subtext there is to base a multitude of scenarios on, the better. Having a near-canonical relationship to work with is very good. For example, I’ve written Garak/Bashir for years; Andy Robinson has often said that he’s played Garak as being attracted to Bashir, and it’s nice to have his support. 🙂 However, it’s not absolutely necessary to have that to write about a pairing. Some people can do it on the slenderest of premises, using only their desire to see two characters they find attractive get together, without worrying about how plausible it might be. And some pairings, yes, I do find extremely bizarre, highly unlikely, or even a bit disturbing, but if it’s what the writer likes, who I am to tell her she shouldn’t do it? If it’s something I don’t care for, I just don’t read it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-women-like-slash-fiction-man-on-man-action-kirk-spock-thats-just-wrong/246358.md?page=1)