# Why do YOU feel you have the right to dictate what one does in their social life? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [February 4, 2003, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-feel-you-have-the-right-to-dictate-what-one-does-in-their-social-life/152625 "2003-02-04T01:29:01Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-feel-you-have-the-right-to-dictate-what-one-does-in-their-social-life/152625/41 "2003-02-04T19:02:32Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mswas \* > So why do YOU feel that such an attitude is reasonable? What justification do you have for telling people that homosexuality, drug use, gambling or prostitution is wrong? > \*\* Forget the “benefit to society” stuff. My justification is that when your habbits start to affect my life, then I am going to comment to you on it. -Sleep with all the prostitutes you want, just don’t complain to me about not being able to find a “nice” girl or that it burns when you piss. -Drink or use drugs as much as you want, just don’t ask to borrow my car or show up on my doorstep acting like a drunk asshole. Don’t expect me to let you cry on my shoulder over every stupid thing you did while high or drunk and then repeat the behavior next weekend. -Go to Vegas every week if you like, just don’t ask to borrow money. People do not live in a vacuum. If people are criticizing your behavior its probably because they see you doing something that will eventually harm you. ---
**Author:** ![XJETGIRLX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9fc29f/32.png) [@XJETGIRLX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XJETGIRLX)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 7:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-feel-you-have-the-right-to-dictate-what-one-does-in-their-social-life/152625/42 "2003-02-04T19:05:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Cyros \* > \*\*Are you trying to say that if prostitution were legal then men, in general, would rather pay to have sex with a prostitute than expend a little effort, find a nice girl that mom would be proud of, and settle down? \*\* Not at all. Simply pointing out that some people who have problems with prostitution don’t like it because that’s what they think will happen. Personally, I don’t give a flip as long as the girl knows what she’s getting herself into and is legally an adult. Just trying to point out that the problem is mainly one of social perception, not necessarily with the act of paying for sex itself. ---
**Author:** ![PatriotX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/c4cdca/32.png) [@PatriotX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatriotX)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-feel-you-have-the-right-to-dictate-what-one-does-in-their-social-life/152625/43 "2003-02-04T20:16:19Z")
Um, which _one_ are you talking about? By “one” do you mean “others that aren’t your dependents”? ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-feel-you-have-the-right-to-dictate-what-one-does-in-their-social-life/152625/44 "2003-02-04T21:10:34Z")
Because I pay for the choices that one makes. In this, I include any high-risk voluntary endeavor, from drug-abuse to cigarettes to parachuting. Your participation increases my medical care costs and my insurance costs. I’m not saying I’m against this and for that, but seeing as how your (generic, not specific to any poster) activities affect my wallet, and how my activities affect yours, I believe that soceity has some (but not an absolute) right to dictate what you do in your social life. ---
**Author:** ![silkstar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/cc9497/32.png) [@silkstar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silkstar)\ **Post date:** [February 4, 2003, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-feel-you-have-the-right-to-dictate-what-one-does-in-their-social-life/152625/45 "2003-02-04T21:59:01Z")
“You create your own reality!” We are all responsible for our actions. What goes on behind government, military and corporate offices makes our societal “acting out” seem like Saturday morning with Barney the purple glitch. Silkstar ---
**Author:** ![msmith537](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d9b06d/32.png) [@msmith537](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/msmith537)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 12:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-feel-you-have-the-right-to-dictate-what-one-does-in-their-social-life/152625/46 "2003-02-05T00:11:39Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by silkstar \* > “You create your own reality!” We are all responsible for our actions. > What goes on behind government, military and corporate offices makes > our societal “acting out” seem like Saturday morning with Barney the > purple glitch. > \*\* Oh yeah? Like what? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-feel-you-have-the-right-to-dictate-what-one-does-in-their-social-life/152625/47 "2003-02-05T01:42:02Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Libertarian \* > \*\*Mswas wrote: > > Why do YOU feel you have the right to dictate what one does in their economic life? \*\* Holy out of context ad hominem batman! Erek ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 1:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-feel-you-have-the-right-to-dictate-what-one-does-in-their-social-life/152625/48 "2003-02-05T01:44:07Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by spooje \* > \*\*Why not? If it were legal, what could stop them? > > Just curious. \*\* It would no longer be a necessity. They could advertise legitimately. Not to say that streetwalking would end completely but there would be safer alternatives, and more protections for prostitutes, and the capability of working for a brothel that can provide medical and hazard insurance. Erek ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 1:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-feel-you-have-the-right-to-dictate-what-one-does-in-their-social-life/152625/49 "2003-02-05T01:49:14Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by XJETGIRLX \* > \*\*Not sure if the OP is referring to social stigma or actual legislation, but either way unless you’re a hermit living off the land in a remote area, pretty much anything/everything you do is going to affect your society or community in ways you might not realize. > > As others have pointed out, there are indeed specific examples, i.e. property rates, crime enforcement, etc. Even if you don’t feel that what you are doing is directly negatively impacting others, there is a collective impact on society nonetheless. However, I think that the negative impact is far more rooted in psychology and sociology than in individuals being harmed. > > With regard to prostitution: while many will object to the actual practice thereof and the specifics involved, I think the larger concern is the demoralization and degradation of women. Many are afraid that if prostitution is legalized or condoned in any way, then that gives the green light to see women and what many consider an extremely intimate and personal exchange as nothing more than a marketable skill. The fear being that this would ‘devalue’ the marketability of women who choose not to engage in this practice, making them less desirable or less able to find a stable relationship. May be a little paranoid and irrational, but I think it’s a factor. > > Regarding drugs, I don’t think that most people really give a crap what you ingest and how you treat your own body, but resent what they see as ultimately a selfish act. This kind of intolerance manifests in other areas as well, not just in opposition to drugs. When a behavior is deemed to have no positive social value, it becomes acceptable to become intolerant towards it. \*\* Many people do see positive social value in drugs. As for prostitution that’s a pretty specious argument (one it doesn’t sound that you hold just that you were observing) I don’t view women as a market commodity. I enjoy female company more than I enjoy male company and will seek out the company of females regardless of sex. I think that if people are so short sighted that they’ll view the benefits a prostitute can provide as the same as the benefits a wife can provide, then they have some emotional issues that they need to work on anyhow. I think legislation based upon the premise of rampant mental illness is kind of a thin argument. Erek ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 1:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-feel-you-have-the-right-to-dictate-what-one-does-in-their-social-life/152625/50 "2003-02-05T01:54:11Z")
Libertarian: If you’d like to start your own thread about economics I’ll gladly answer your question btw, I’m just not going to hijack this one. Some interesting answers here. Erek ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 6:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-feel-you-have-the-right-to-dictate-what-one-does-in-their-social-life/152625/51 "2003-02-05T06:17:46Z")
“Why do YOU feel you have the right to dictate what one does in their social life” Wait a minute. What if my social life includes the right to do that very thing? Are you telling me that I should engage in that aspect of my social life? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-feel-you-have-the-right-to-dictate-what-one-does-in-their-social-life/152625/52 "2003-02-05T06:51:38Z")
I’m not telling you anything, I’m asking. Erek ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 7:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-feel-you-have-the-right-to-dictate-what-one-does-in-their-social-life/152625/53 "2003-02-05T07:16:49Z")
Just asking? Really? Do you mean that you’re merely _asking_ if people have this right? 'Cuz that doesn’t seem to match the tone of your previous postings. Or are you _asking_ people not to do this? If so, why? Is it for no good reason, or because you’re saying that it’s something they shouldn’t do? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-feel-you-have-the-right-to-dictate-what-one-does-in-their-social-life/152625/54 "2003-02-05T07:29:15Z")
If you are incapable of understanding an OP that many other people understood, then that’s unfortunate. My personal bias should have nothing to do with your ability to answer a simple question. Good luck to you. Erek ---
**Author:** ![JThunder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e95f7d/32.png) [@JThunder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JThunder)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 8:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-feel-you-have-the-right-to-dictate-what-one-does-in-their-social-life/152625/55 "2003-02-05T08:00:50Z")
In case you didn’t notice, my question DOES answer your OP. The statement “One doesn’t have the right to dictate what others should do in their social life” is self-refuting. As I said, what if one’s social life includes dictating such things? Then that claim is dictating that people shouldn’t dictate what other people should do. The claim self-destructs. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 2:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-feel-you-have-the-right-to-dictate-what-one-does-in-their-social-life/152625/56 "2003-02-05T14:49:59Z")
What are the limits on one’s personal affairs? There’s a classic answer, said only half in jest, that my right to swing my fists stops one inch short of your nose. Bottom line to me is that I have **no right** to say what anyone else should do in their personal lives, provided that what they do does not injure me or mine. We got off the track on page one on negative social effects resulting from particular individual choices. One answer (not mine), Erek, may be that God’s Law dictates what human beings should and should not do in sufficient detail that a majority of us are entitled to make human laws aimed at enforcing God’s Law as regards what you should and should not do in your private affairs. This is the quite serious contention of many conservatives who are believers. **JThunder** , your “social life” does not include a right to dictate the affairs of others, unless you’ve been chosen King of Great Britain while we weren’t looking, in which case you have some say over the affairs of our British members – until Parliament dethrones you. Your rights as a member of a majority of a self-governing nation may include that of instituting limitations on what your fellow man may do, subject to the provisions of a socially-agreed-to charter limiting what the majority may do as regards regulating the minority. For example, a majority in this country claim to be Christians – but do not have the power to enforce Christianity as a belief on the rest of Americans thanks to the provisions of the First Amendment to the U.S. Constitution (and I believe the provisions of every state constitution as well). Those majority rights are limited by what the SCOTUS has described as “balancing” – to weigh the right of state police power to regulate behavior against the freedom of the individual to behave as he chooses. We have examples where individual freedom conflicts with the need for social protection from the side-effects of that freedom given at length on page one of this thread. Egregious violations of personal rights by a majority, and the reasons for combatting them are detailed at length on other threads, which I’m sure you have seen. Perhaps the finest statement of the principles involved was written by Supreme Court Justice Anthony Kennedy as the ruling of the Court in [Romer v. Evans](http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/getcase.pl?court=US&vol=000&invol=U10179): > [@](#): > > One century ago, the first Justice Harlan admonished this Court that the Constitution “neither knows nor tolerates classes among citizens.” Plessy v. Ferguson, 163 U.S. 537, 559 (1896) (dissenting opinion). Unheeded then, those words now are understood to state a commitment to the law’s neutrality where the rights of persons are at stake. > > laws of the kind now before us raise the inevitable inference that the disadvantage imposed is born of animosity toward the class of persons affected. “\*f the constitutional conception of `equal protection of the laws’ means anything, it must at the very least mean that a bare . . . desire to harm a politically unpopular group cannot constitute a legitimate governmental interest.” Department of Agriculture v. Moreno, 413 U.S. 528, 534 (1973). Even laws enacted for broad and ambitious purposes often can be explained by reference to legitimate public policies which justify the incidental disadvantages they impose on certain persons. > > The laws challenged in the cases just cited were narrow enough in scope and grounded in a sufficient factual context for us to ascertain that there existed some relation between the classification and the purpose it served. By requiring that the classification bear a rational relationship to an independent and legitimate legislative end, we ensure that classifications are not drawn for the purpose of disadvantaging the group burdened by the law. See United States Railroad Retirement Bd. v. Fritz, 449 U.S. 166, 181 (1980) (STEVENS, J., concurring) (“If the adverse impact on the disfavored class is an apparent aim of the legislature, its impartiality would be suspect.”). > > It is not within our constitutional tradition to enact laws of this sort. Central both to the idea of the rule of law and to our own Constitution’s guarantee of equal protection is the principle that government and each of its parts remain open on impartial terms to all who seek its assistance. “`Equal protection of the laws is not achieved through indiscriminate imposition of inequalities.'" Sweatt v. Painter, 339 U.S. 629, 635 (1950) (quoting Shelley v. Kraemer, 334 U.S. 1, 22 (1948)). Respect for this principle explains why laws singling out a certain class of citizens for disfavored legal status or general hardships are rare. A law declaring that in general it shall be more difficult for one group of citizens than for all others to seek aid from the government is itself a denial of equal protection of the laws in the most literal sense. "The guaranty of `equal protection of the laws is a pledge of the protection of equal laws.’” Skinner v. Oklahoma ex rel. Williamson, 316 U.S. 535, 541 (1942) (quoting Yick Wo v. Hopkins, 118 U.S. 356, 369 (1886)). ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 2:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-feel-you-have-the-right-to-dictate-what-one-does-in-their-social-life/152625/57 "2003-02-05T14:56:45Z")
Poly wrote: > [@](#): > > What are the limits on one’s personal affairs? By the ethic to which I subscribe, they are peace (no initial force) and honesty (no initial fraud). ---
**Author:** ![Delirium](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3e96dc/32.png) [@Delirium](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Delirium)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-feel-you-have-the-right-to-dictate-what-one-does-in-their-social-life/152625/58 "2003-02-05T15:39:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mswas \* > \*\*So why do YOU feel that such an attitude is reasonable? What justification do you have for telling people that homosexuality, drug use, gambling or prostitution is wrong? > > Erek \*\* 1. Homosexuality is not wrong. 2. Drug use can be wrong. When the use becomes addiction it is no longer a question of personal choice. The freedom to potentially lose your family, your job and your home, not to mention your life is not a freedom. I wanted someone to step in, but nobody came. I will never accept the laissez-faire attitude around someone with drug problems. 3. Gambling can be wrong. It’s the addiction thing again. If interfering could prevent a tragedy I will do it. 4. Prostitution is wrong. Those who become prostitutes are there for a reason. Prostitution should be obliterated. A first step is to crack down hard on the people involved in trafficking. ---
**Author:** ![astro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/9dc877/32.png) [@astro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astro)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-feel-you-have-the-right-to-dictate-what-one-does-in-their-social-life/152625/59 "2003-02-05T15:47:59Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mswas \* > \*\*Why do YOU feel you have the right to dictate what one does in their social life? \*\* [Pee Wee Herman voice] It’s scaring the horses! [/Pee Wee Herman voice] ---
**Author:** ![XJETGIRLX](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/x/9fc29f/32.png) [@XJETGIRLX](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XJETGIRLX)\ **Post date:** [February 5, 2003, 4:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-feel-you-have-the-right-to-dictate-what-one-does-in-their-social-life/152625/60 "2003-02-05T16:27:40Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by mswas \* > \*\*Many people do see positive social value in drugs. > > As for prostitution that’s a pretty specious argument (one it doesn’t sound that you hold just that you were observing) I don’t view women as a market commodity. I enjoy female company more than I enjoy male company and will seek out the company of females regardless of sex. I think that if people are so short sighted that they’ll view the benefits a prostitute can provide as the same as the benefits a wife can provide, then they have some emotional issues that they need to work on anyhow. > > I think legislation based upon the premise of rampant mental illness is kind of a thin argument. > > Erek \*\* In the OP, you didn’t point out that you were seeking opinions about _legislating_ morality, simply why other people feel that they have a right to tell other people what to do / not do. I was taking the tack that legislation aside, there is a net social effect of individual behaviors. Regarding the prostitution argument, that is the view that many people I know hold, and while I’m not sure I ascribe to it completely, I think it’s a valid concern. I think many women (and even myself to a small extent) are intimidated by the emotional implications of widespread condoning of prostitution (or any behavior seen as exploiting women for that matter). The idea being that it’s difficult enough these days to be seen as an individual and wanted because of who we are, that this might serve as one more standard for women to live up to. Certainly not all women are going to feel this way, but I think that this kind of thinking is what adds to the taboo nature of the subject. As for saying if people feel this will undermine marriage then they have issues, I agree with you wholeheartedly there, but until we become a perfectly well-adjusted society there will always be people with issues. As far as drugs, I’m sure many people do see a positive social gain, but I believe that the majority of us see that gain only in terms of for the individual, and not for society overall. e.g. a lot of us would agree that if Joe Schmoe wants to get high on the weekends it’s none of our business, but if there’s a crackhouse on the corner of our street we’re all up in arms. I think my main premise was to illustrate that (I believe) as a whole we tend to shun and try to control behavior that we feel doesn’t have any benefit for the group, while engaging in behaviors that benefit mainly us. I can’t really speak on legislating these kinds of things, as I really am uncomfortable speaking about the law as I’m not intimately familiar with it. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-feel-you-have-the-right-to-dictate-what-one-does-in-their-social-life/152625.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-feel-you-have-the-right-to-dictate-what-one-does-in-their-social-life/152625.md?page=4)