# Why do you hate Hillary Rodham Clinton? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [July 2, 2004, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-hate-hillary-rodham-clinton/253261 "2004-07-02T19:20:44Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![toadspittle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c0e974/32.png) [@toadspittle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/toadspittle)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-hate-hillary-rodham-clinton/253261/41 "2004-07-03T15:06:35Z")
New Yorker here, who voted for her. I have to say, I never understood the whole carpetbagger argument. Especially coming from folks who grew up in New York City … are you sure you actually DID grow up in NYC? Were you in a coma your whole childhood and then were shipped out of the city before you awoke? Anyone who has lived in New York City should recognize what I always thought was the most striking thing about it: EVERYONE is from somewhere else. Hell, I remember reading that 60% of New Yorkers are either immigrants or children of immigrants–so not only are many people from somewhere else, many many are not even from this COUNTRY. That’s the beauty of NYC. Everyone wants to move there to do business, experience the culture, etc. The whole frickin’ place is nothing but carpetbaggers. I moved there for a job, lived in Queens for 6 years, and then moved upstate (but still commuted in to the city). Does that make me not a New Yorker somehow? Now granted, if she had done this anywhere else, the label could stick. I’m from Pennsylvania originally, and the state just isn’t that cosmopolitan. If she had shown up trying to be senator … no dice. But New York State is different. I’m sure many up in Buffalo and on Lake Erie would argue with my perspective, but sadly they lack the votes to overturn where NYC wants to take the state. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-hate-hillary-rodham-clinton/253261/42 "2004-07-03T16:02:54Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > -I don’t want to live in a Socialist country. > -She’s a Socialist. **I’m** a socialist, **Magiver.** Well, not in **Olentzero’s** judgment, but never mind that. I do know some things about socialists. And trust me: HRC is no socialist. I wish! ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-hate-hillary-rodham-clinton/253261/43 "2004-07-03T16:06:35Z")
Taking people’s property by force for some perceived “common good” is the very heart of socialism. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-hate-hillary-rodham-clinton/253261/44 "2004-07-03T16:07:09Z")
BTW, as a Southerner, it always makes me giggle when I hear that “carpetbagger” label attached to a woman who moved from the **South** to the **North!** ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-hate-hillary-rodham-clinton/253261/45 "2004-07-03T16:12:59Z")
> [@ralph124c](#): > > What really got me: her announcement that she was a “co-president” with Bill (“you get two for the price of one”… That’s at least the second time that quote has been mentioned in this thread and nobody has yet provided a cite. **Where does it come from?** ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-hate-hillary-rodham-clinton/253261/46 "2004-07-03T16:14:11Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Taking people’s property by force for some perceived “common good” is the very heart of socialism. No, **Liberal,** it is the very heart of taxation, which is practiced by **every** government regardless of ideology. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-hate-hillary-rodham-clinton/253261/47 "2004-07-03T17:52:35Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Are you being _deliberately_ dishonest? Or are you truly ignorant about the rhetorical device I used to express my contempt for Svinlesha’s curse?[…] I am very sorry. I did not know the history of your exchanges with **Gaudere** on the topic. If I misunderstood “Hillary Whore Clinton,” and mischaracterized your deep, abiding admiration for her, you have my deepest apologies. I certainly don’t want to be like Michael Moore!!! Oh, excuse me. Just one more thing before you go. Could you explain the rhetorical devices that I am certainly missing in these other quotes. Particularly **“former first bitch.”** I would definitely not want to once again misrepresent your admiration for her. > [@Liberal](#): > > This is the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard of. I am reminded of a speech by Hillary Clinton, in which she mentioned a struggling single mother whose newborn infant had messed up her opportunity to finish her education, and then cited her as an example of why we need more federal assistance for unwed moms. > > We’ve all gone crazy lately. Crazy crazy crazy crazy crazy. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=417506&postcount=1](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=417506&postcount=1) > [@Lieberal](#): > > For example, Mhendo called out December for his views on racial profiling, but if you visit the link, you’ll see that he was not advocating racial profiling at all. He was calling out perceived double-standards of people like Hillary Clinton. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=2881101&postcount=27](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=2881101&postcount=27) > [@Liberal](#): > > > [@elf6c](#): > > > > […]To the OP: Who is more evil, Bill Clinton or Osama bin Laden? > > This is difficult to answer. Our Fox News analysts point out that both are immoral, egomaniacal, and treacherous. Usama had his World Trade Center, but Clinton had his Waco. Your question would have been easier to answer had you included Senator Hillary Clinton. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3343879&postcount=19](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=3343879&postcount=19) > [@Liberal](#): > > Originally posted by Ace\_Face > The Dixie Chicks vs. Tokyo Rose. Who wins? > It’s hard to say. Both set out to destroy the morale of US and coalition troops. Fox News analysts inform us that your question would have been easier to answer had you included Senator Hillary Clinton. > [@Liberal](#): > > > [@](#): > > > > I found the above details in a Hillary Clinton hit piece by NewsMax’s Carl Limbacher. > > Wow, thanks! There are plenty examples of Clinton caught in lies, but precious few from the former First Bitch. I appreciate your even-handed candor. [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4782370&postcount=34](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4782370&postcount=34) Just two weeks ago: [quote=Lieberal] > [@Lissener](#): > > This was a man who tells lies in his efforts to shill shamelessly for a corrupt administration, and then he goes on a cable talkshow to shill shamelessly for book sales.[/qoute] > You mean like Hillary Clinton? [http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4993109&postcount=32](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=4993109&postcount=32) I so want to get it right so that I too may bask in the warm glow of your great admiration. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 6:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-hate-hillary-rodham-clinton/253261/48 "2004-07-03T18:07:52Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > Just for fun, I’ll assume that people hate her for purely partisan reasons, and/or because they are men who are threatened by a strong woman. Your job is to convince me otherwise. 😉 Yes, it is pretty much purely partisan reasons. She is a liberal Democrat; I am a moderately conservative Republican. She has a good deal of baggage from her long association with her slimey husband and his tenure in Arkansas as well. The stuff about being threatened by strong women is too stupid to bother much with. If you like, you can show how threatened the Right is by people like Maggie Thatcher, Jeanne Kirkpatrick, and Condoleeza Rice. Since we are so afraid of strong women. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Spavined\_Gelding](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/958977/32.png) [@Spavined\_Gelding](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spavined_Gelding)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-hate-hillary-rodham-clinton/253261/49 "2004-07-03T18:15:03Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Taking people’s property by force for some perceived “common good” is the very heart of socialism. What? What? Hillary Clinton is in favor of **taxation**? The horror, oh, the horror! Friend **Liberal** , I fear you do need to change your name back. Just in the interest of truth in advertising. You disparage Senator Clinton not because she isn’t a free lunch Republican (who at least accept the idea of taxes as long as they don’t have to pay them), but because she is not an every-man-is-an-island, every-man-for-himself-and-the-devil-take-the-hindmost libertarian cum anarchist. This is not a useful debating position. The hysteria over the aborted and complicated Clinton health care plan puts me in a mind of my own father’s temper tantrums about Medicare – which of course was a Communist plot to foist socialized medicine with all its attendant horrors of national standards and diagnoses manuals and tax subsidy on patriotic physicians who had sweated in the deserts of North Africa just to prevent that sort of thing. Concerning Eleanor Roosevelt, there was an item today, albeit on a supposedly comic program, in which J Edgar Hoover was quoted as saying that Mrs Roosevelt was a danger to the republic and a subversive. Sound familiar? ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-hate-hillary-rodham-clinton/253261/50 "2004-07-03T18:25:14Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Yes, it is pretty much purely partisan reasons. She is a liberal Democrat; I am a moderately conservative Republican. Isn’t that a pretty lame reason to **hate** someone? I mean, I don’t hate any conservatives just because they’re conservative. ---
**Author:** ![Blalron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/35a633/32.png) [@Blalron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Blalron)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 7:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-hate-hillary-rodham-clinton/253261/51 "2004-07-03T19:07:26Z")
> [@Zagadka](#): > > Isn’t that a pretty lame reason to **hate** someone? I mean, I don’t hate any conservatives just because they’re conservative. I also don’t see very many liberals making vicious attacks on Laura Bush. ---
**Author:** ![pervert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bbe5ce/32.png) [@pervert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pervert)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-hate-hillary-rodham-clinton/253261/52 "2004-07-03T19:20:34Z")
> [@Spavined Gelding](#): > > The easy answer, **pervert** , is that I have yet to see anybody come up with an explanation for why they are antagonistic toward Senator Clinton that would not pass muster as a poor joke in a P J O’Rorke piece. The woman is smart, she is ambitious, she does know how to use power and she is Bill Clinton’s wife and came to public notice in that capacity. All anybody here has had to contribute is throw away lines about not being a true New Yorker, being insincere about her affections for a professional baseball team, and oblique references to her work on a national health care policy. None of that stuff is substantive. Carpetbagger or not, the voters of New York sent her to the US Senate. A little insincerity about the Yankees, as big a bunch of cry-babies and phonies as exists in professional sports today (with the possible exception of the Chicago Bears) is to be expected. The national health care initiative is something the country needs and which in the form of Medicare we have already to one extent or another. > > All I see as a basis for a visceral dislike of Mrs Clinton (and I assume that few of the critics and none of the posters have had the opportunity to meet her in anything but a pro-forma fashion) is that as a strong, smart, ambitious woman she scares them. The extent to which the comment on the threads suggesting Senator Clinton as a Vice-presidential candidate turn into Red baiting simply solidifies my opinion. Now that the Red Russians and the Godless Communists are unlikely to vaporize Omaha in the next week or so the “Hillary = Commie” claims lack either probity or the capacity to frighten. And yet you list some reasons in the first paragraph. What, exactly, is the problem of opposing a politician for the reasons you listed? You dismiss them and thats cool. But for other people they are substantive issues. On a further note, what exactly do you mean by visceral dislike? Perhaps I am not thinking of the same thing you are. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 7:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-hate-hillary-rodham-clinton/253261/53 "2004-07-03T19:28:37Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > I also don’t see very many liberals making vicious attacks on Laura Bush. Not to get the Laura Bush Bashing ball rolling, but it is hard to make fun of nothingness. O\_o And to be fair, people made fun of his daughters. But then, they got themselves into those messes. ---
**Author:** ![Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/8edcca/32.png) [@Hentor\_the\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hentor_the_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-hate-hillary-rodham-clinton/253261/54 "2004-07-03T19:31:55Z")
> [@Blalron](#): > > I also don’t see very many liberals making vicious attacks on Laura Bush. Ture. Just imagine if Hillary had actually killed someone in the past, like Laura Bush did. Don’t mistake this observation for any attack on Laura Bush. From what I’ve read, it sounds like the situation was a tragic and painful accident. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-hate-hillary-rodham-clinton/253261/55 "2004-07-03T19:36:36Z")
> [@Hentor the Barbarian](#): > > Ture. Just imagine if Hillary had actually killed someone in the past, like Laura Bush did. According to some theories, she did. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-hate-hillary-rodham-clinton/253261/56 "2004-07-03T21:08:40Z")
> [@blowero](#): > > Oh, please, Brutus. “Flat tax” is just a right-wing code word for “get rid of the capital gains tax”. A real flat tax has never been proposed. I disagree. A Flat tax is a right-wing code word for flat tax. It can be done and the Russians are doing it. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-hate-hillary-rodham-clinton/253261/57 "2004-07-03T21:41:29Z")
> [@Frostillicus](#): > > Please identify what industries Senator Clinton believes should be taken over by the government. And please don’t automatically parrot “health care” or I’ll have to assume you are a dittohead without a mind of his own. Having every need met without any fiscal responsibility is the walking definition of socialism. Socialized medicine fits that definition in every way. Keep in mind, I’m not complaining about Senator Clinton’s prior health care proposals because she single handedly turned over both houses to the GOP. No First Lady has ever achieved that. She is the best thing that ever happened to the Republican Party. Sorry to bust your insult bubble but I work for a living and I don’t have time to listen to the radio. You might want to save your Limbaugh labels for somone who actually quotes him. Don’t forget to feed your parrot. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-hate-hillary-rodham-clinton/253261/58 "2004-07-03T21:46:37Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Having every need met without any fiscal responsibility is the walking definition of socialism. No, **Magiver,** what you are describing is the welfare state, which can exist in a socialist economy or a market economy. It does exist in most of the states of Europe, all of which have market ecomies, none of which are “socialist” in the Soviet sense, and few of which are even social-democratic in the Swedish sense. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-hate-hillary-rodham-clinton/253261/59 "2004-07-03T21:48:08Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Keep in mind, I’m not complaining about Senator Clinton’s prior health care proposals because she single handedly turned over both houses to the GOP. No First Lady has ever achieved that. She is the best thing that ever happened to the Republican Party. I think you are overestimating HRC’s power to anger swing voters, and slighting the credit due to Newt Gingrich and the on-the-ground Republican organizers. ---
**Author:** ![Zagadka](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zagadka/32/7272_2.png) [@Zagadka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zagadka)\ **Post date:** [July 3, 2004, 10:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-hate-hillary-rodham-clinton/253261/60 "2004-07-03T22:05:06Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Having every need met without any fiscal responsibility is the walking definition of socialism. Socialized medicine fits that definition in every way. I’m curious, what makes health care different from fire fighting, street maintenance, postal service, education, etc? Do you believe that all of these industries should be privatized? When does it stop being “OK” and start being “socialism”, and how far over this line is government medicare? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-hate-hillary-rodham-clinton/253261.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-hate-hillary-rodham-clinton/253261.md?page=4)