# Why do you like Donald Trump as President? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 12, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064 "2018-05-12T21:09:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 14
**Author:** ![postpic200](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@postpic200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postpic200)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/261 "2018-05-16T21:00:07Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > Is it your impression that only poor conservative people from coal country experience financial hardships? You think people on the left are somehow immune or suffer less due to economic challenges? No I’m not but when Government policies put people out of work for whatever reason the government has a DUTY, to re-train and support them until said training is done. ---
**Author:** ![postpic200](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@postpic200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postpic200)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/262 "2018-05-16T21:01:34Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > That’s one thing that really bothers the heck out of me. > > “Those poor coal miners deserve our help. We owe it to them to give them jobs.” > > and > > “Those poor minority people should get off their asses and find work. No one owes them a job!” > > Out of the same mouths. One of the reasons they were out of work was because of governmental polices, so I feel it’s the duty of the government to re-train them and support them until the are trained. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/263 "2018-05-16T21:05:25Z")
> [@postpic200](#): > > One of the reasons they were out of work was because of governmental polices, so I feel it’s the duty of the government to re-train them and support them until the are trained. Obama put those retraining programs in place. People stopped using them since Trump promised all those coal mining jobs would come back. [CITE](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-trump-effect-coal-retraining-insight/awaiting-trumps-coal-comeback-miners-reject-retraining-idUSKBN1D14G0) ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/264 "2018-05-16T21:11:57Z")
> [@postpic200](#): > > One of the reasons they were out of work was because of governmental polices, so I feel it’s the duty of the government to re-train them and support them until the are trained. Isn’t the same true for minorities oppressed by government policies? If so then the southern states should be paying billions to train black people whose ancestors were prevented from getting the same jobs as white people, or from earning the same wages as white people, sometimes murdered just for trying to leave to find work. Besides the fact that it was NOT government policies here, it is market forces at work. As I said, the steep drop in coal production was because oil and particularly gas became much cheaper. Besides also the idea that coal was being ‘subsidized’ by the complete lack of environmental laws and protections and we’ve decided that doesn’t work in the long run. ---
**Author:** ![postpic200](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@postpic200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postpic200)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/265 "2018-05-16T21:21:33Z")
> [@Slash1972](#): > > Sure, coal jobs mean work. So do a lot of other jobs. What’s your fascination with “coal” jobs? Why aren’t you worried about “natural gas” jobs. Or “wind/solar power” jobs? Or hell, jobs that involve crab picking and businesses who are losing money because new visa rules mean they can’t hire anybody? Why coal? I pointed to coal because it in part (a major part IMO) the government policies were designed to kill coal as a fuel. The new visa rules are for visas was in part due to the abuse of the employers. Of course the fact they pay less then $10 had nothing to do with them not finding enough workers does it. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/266 "2018-05-16T21:21:39Z")
> [@postpic200](#): > > Have you ever been really out of work with NO prospects, Yes > [@](#): > > with children to feed, No, but that is your choice to have children > [@](#): > > needing money to buy gas, Yes > [@](#): > > pay bills etc. Yes > [@](#): > > I have. Welcome to the club. > [@](#): > > So jobs are important and coal jobs mean work, mean people can feed their kid, pay their bill, and NOT take handout from the government. So are the jobs that they were offered [training to attain.](https://www.greenbiz.com/article/new-initiative-help-coal-workers-transition-clean-economy-jobs) Of course, they [refused those efforts to help them to help themselves.](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-trump-effect-coal-retraining-insight/awaiting-trumps-coal-comeback-miners-reject-retraining-idUSKBN1D14G0) Rather they wanted someone else to bring their jobs back for them. > [@](#): > > Also given that coal provides about 30% of the electricity in the US, And declining. > [@](#): > > and given many on the left are against dams, It’s not that people are against dams, it is that pretty much all of the rivers that can be economically dammed and used for hydropower already have been. There is very little more capacity to grow that sector. > [@](#): > > nuclear, Fewer than you think on that. Sure, the environmental groups that are anti-everything tend to be on the left, but they have less and less effect on policy. Most liberals I know are for nuclear power. > [@](#): > > just how are you going to make up that 30%. Unless of course you like sitting in the dark. Coal is not the only, nor the best, nor actually a good way, of producing electricity. There are other options that are better for both the environment and the economy. ---
**Author:** ![postpic200](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@postpic200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postpic200)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/267 "2018-05-16T21:24:41Z")
> [@PigArcher](#): > > Obama put those retraining programs in place. People stopped using them since Trump promised all those coal mining jobs would come back. [CITE](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-trump-effect-coal-retraining-insight/awaiting-trumps-coal-comeback-miners-reject-retraining-idUSKBN1D14G0) But that’s their choice. ---
**Author:** ![postpic200](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@postpic200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postpic200)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 9:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/268 "2018-05-16T21:26:20Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > Isn’t the same true for minorities oppressed by government policies? If so then the southern states should be paying billions to train black people whose ancestors were prevented from getting the same jobs as white people, or from earning the same wages as white people, sometimes murdered just for trying to leave to find work. > > Besides the fact that it was NOT government policies here, it is market forces at work. As I said, the steep drop in coal production was because oil and particularly gas became much cheaper. > > Besides also the idea that coal was being ‘subsidized’ by the complete lack of environmental laws and protections and we’ve decided that doesn’t work in the long run. Then let the market forces work. But it’s funny how the “demand” suddenly when up when the policies changed. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/269 "2018-05-16T21:27:57Z")
> [@postpic200](#): > > But that’s their choice. Yes it is. They chose to not take the offer of job retraining, and instead, demanded that they get their old jobs back. If you are out of work, or in an declining industry, and you make the choice to not take an offer that will get you working in another industry that will last longer than the coal, how much sympathy am I supposed to have for you? ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/270 "2018-05-16T21:32:55Z")
> [@postpic200](#): > > Then let the market forces work. But it’s funny how the “demand” suddenly when up when the policies changed. If “demand” is up, where are all the jobs? A net increase of 100 is a drop in the bucket. ---
**Author:** ![wolfpup](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpup/32/10618_2.png) [@wolfpup](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolfpup)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/271 "2018-05-16T21:33:54Z")
> [@Ruined](#): > > Global Warming all of a sudden became climate change because it was a hoax. The absolutely utter knuckle-dragging ignorance of that statement is as appalling as it is comical. It appears from a quick glance that this is a good indicator of your level of knowledge and the amount of research you do to understand the facts around most of the issues that you like to bloviate about. I’m willing to acknowledge your point that Trump supporters may not all be bigoted rednecks (though again and again it appears that the most enthusiastic ones are), but this wonderful declaration of yours is proof positive that, just like you, they are comically uninformed ignoramuses. I note also your observation that the EPA is a “joke”. I haven’t read most of the rest of your drivel and the above certainly suggests that it wouldn’t be worth the chuckle it might elicit, let alone a serious response. You’re not doing Trump or his gang any favors here with this display of abject stupidity. > [@postpic200](#): > > Have you ever been really out of work with NO prospects, with children to feed, needing money to buy gas, pay bills etc. I have. So jobs are important and coal jobs mean work, mean people can feed their kid, pay their bill, and NOT take handout from the government. Also given that coal provides about 30% of the electricity in the US, and given many on the left are against dams, nuclear, just how are you going to make up that 30%. Unless of course you like sitting in the dark. I don’t fault such people for being desperate for work. But there are much larger issues at stake, and the correct action isn’t to try to revitalize an archaic and dangerous industry that’s doomed anyway, it’s just a matter of time – an industry that’s not just a plague on the global environment, but is killing its workers and (by virtue of local power plants) also inflicting cardiopulmonary and other diseases on their own families. The correct action that’s within the power of the federal government is to initiate strategic programs to migrate them to sustainable jobs through retraining, relocation, and federal support for local sustainable industry, like manufacturing clean technologies instead of mining coal. In the meantime the nation is better off paying these people unemployment benefits rather than sending them off to the coal mines. As for the 30% of power that is presently generated by coal, that isn’t some law of nature that has to be lived with, it’s a statement of a serious problem that has to be fixed. The easiest quick short-term fix is what a great many coal-fired plants have already done: convert to natural gas. Still a fossil fuel, but much cleaner, and there are now more gas-fired power plants than coal plants in the US. What is the point here of trying to dredge up the fact that “many on the left” (whatever that means) are opposed to hydroelectric and nuclear power? Perhaps a few are, but most are strongly in favor of clean energy, which also includes solar, wind, and other lesser sources like geothermal. The fact that some nutbars are going to protest over building a hydroelectric dam or nuclear plant doesn’t mean it isn’t doable or a good idea. The US currently lacks a coherent nuclear policy that would drive important advances in the development of new nuclear technologies and new plants. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 9:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/272 "2018-05-16T21:36:59Z")
> [@postpic200](#): > > Then let the market forces work. But it’s funny how the “demand” suddenly when up when the policies changed. Not even sure what you mean here. I mentioned black people being affected by local government policies and coal being faced with environmental regulations, and you respond with this? Do you mean to imply that the ‘free market’ will solve the issue of racism and discrimination (which would be absurd) or that the ‘free market’ will solve pollution problems (which is equally absurd)? ---
**Author:** ![postpic200](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@postpic200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postpic200)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 9:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/273 "2018-05-16T21:37:57Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > Yes > > No, but that is your choice to have children > > Yes > > Yes > > Welcome to the club. > > So are the jobs that they were offered [training to attain.](https://www.greenbiz.com/article/new-initiative-help-coal-workers-transition-clean-economy-jobs) Of course, they [refused those efforts to help them to help themselves.](https://www.reuters.com/article/us-trump-effect-coal-retraining-insight/awaiting-trumps-coal-comeback-miners-reject-retraining-idUSKBN1D14G0) Rather they wanted someone else to bring their jobs back for them. > > And declining. > > It’s not that people are against dams, it is that pretty much all of the rivers that can be economically dammed and used for hydropower already have been. There is very little more capacity to grow that sector. > > Fewer than you think on that. Sure, the environmental groups that are anti-everything tend to be on the left, but they have less and less effect on policy. Most liberals I know are for nuclear power. > Coal is not the only, nor the best, nor actually a good way, of producing electricity. There are other options that are better for both the environment and the economy. Never said coal was the best nor a good way to produce electricity, I pointed out the fact it’s use to make 30% of our electricity. Yes it is declining and as done so for year. And given time it would die. As far as dams go they are un-damming many rivers that could produce electricity. You see it’s the FAR left and FAR right the really cause the problems. If you have an answer and have some reasonable proof that it could work. I’d be willing to support it. Take wind power, yes we can generate power from the wind, but we need backup plants to produce power when the wind is not blowing, are you willing to pay more for electricity to support wind. That’s the discussion to have. Not, coal is evil and we need to kill it. ---
**Author:** ![postpic200](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@postpic200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postpic200)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/274 "2018-05-16T21:39:08Z")
I’d taking off for the day, it was nice talking to all of you, but I feel this thread has gone astray. So Thank you all for your responses, and for being polite. ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/275 "2018-05-16T21:46:13Z")
> [@postpic200](#): > > … And in fact, when that was written citizens could buy anything they pleased, canons, multi shot rifles, etc. … Wait, what? There were multi shot rifles in 1789? ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/276 "2018-05-16T21:46:47Z")
> [@postpic200](#): > > You see it’s the FAR left and FAR right the really cause the problems. If you have an answer and have some reasonable proof that it could work. I’d be willing to support it. Take wind power, yes we can generate power from the wind, but we need backup plants to produce power when the wind is not blowing, are you willing to pay more for electricity to support wind. That’s the discussion to have. Not, coal is evil and we need to kill it. Except no one actually said that. ---
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/277 "2018-05-16T21:48:31Z")
> [@PigArcher](#): > > Except no one actually said that. Conservatives prefer to argue against what they’ve imagined you’ve said. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/278 "2018-05-16T21:48:35Z")
> [@postpic200](#): > > Never said coal was the best nor a good way to produce electricity, I pointed out the fact it’s use to make 30% of our electricity. Yes it is declining and as done so for year. And given time it would die. As far as dams go they are un-damming many rivers that could produce electricity. > > You see it’s the FAR left and FAR right the really cause the problems. If you have an answer and have some reasonable proof that it could work. I’d be willing to support it. Take wind power, yes we can generate power from the wind, but we need backup plants to produce power when the wind is not blowing, are you willing to pay more for electricity to support wind. That’s the discussion to have. I’m all about nuclear power, myself. Even the current reactors we have out there are better and safer than coal fired plants. And there are much better designs that are in use, and even better ones on the drawing board. This of course, assumes that MIT doesn’t fuflfill their promise/threat to have fusion up and running within a couple decades. > [@](#): > > Not, coal is evil and we need to kill it. That’s trying to take it to a new level of anthropomorphization. I don’t know that I’ve ever seen anyone say that. It is that sort of simplification of complex policy nuance, along with the demonization of those whose mouths you are putting these words into, that prevents problems from being addressed. What I have seen is specific information about the damage tha coal does to the environment, to the people who mine it, and the people who live near the power plants. Emphysema isn’t “evil” but it certainly is something that could be lessened. ---
**Author:** ![PigArcher](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/bcef8e/32.png) [@PigArcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PigArcher)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/279 "2018-05-16T21:48:38Z")
> [@postpic200](#): > > I’d taking off for the day, it was nice talking to all of you, but I feel this thread has gone astray. > > So Thank you all for your responses, and for being polite. “astray” = “people are not only failing to accept my claims unconditionally but actually expect me to engage in reasonable debate supported by facts” ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 16, 2018, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/280 "2018-05-16T21:51:41Z")
> [@Chimera](#): > > … or that the ‘free market’ will solve pollution problems (which is equally absurd)? Well, yes, repeat, no. One of the most amazing things I have ever witnessed is how fast solar power went from Planet Utopia to practical applications. Thing about clever monkeys, they are still monkeys, but they are clever. Lordy, what else might we have done but didn’t think was “marketable”? 'Course, not without drawbacks. Just a couple weeks ago, one of those solar arrays collapsed, and spilled sunshine all over everything! Another fine mess the hippies got us into! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064.md?page=13) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064.md?page=15)