# Why do you like Donald Trump as President? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [May 12, 2018, 9:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064 "2018-05-12T21:09:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 23
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/441 "2018-05-19T15:38:46Z")
Recapping one of \*youtube’s premiere intellectuals weighing in. [Sargon Of Akkad Says He Is A Trump Supporter & Explains Why - YouTube](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKddWnhb3EA) - When all the media, the deep state, and most of the rest of the establishment unify behind Hillary Clinton while a political outsider who’s fairly inarticulate is packing arenas around the country, that’s a surefire sign a country needs a populist shakeup and renovation. - Gosh golly, Donald Trump has this knack for driving the left crazy and it’s magnificent. - Would you believe someone as extreme as Linda Sarsour is given a platform? Linda Sarsour LINDA SARSOUR Linda Sarsour LINDA SARSOUR Linda Sarsour LINDA SARSOUR Linda Sarsour LINDA SARSOUR Linda Sarsour LINDA SARSOUR Linda Sarsour LINDA SARSOUR Linda Sarsour LINDA SARSOUR Linda Sarsour LINDA SARSOUR Linda Sarsour LINDA SARSOUR Linda Sarsour LINDA SARSOUR Linda Sarsour LINDA SARSOUR Linda Sarsour LINDA SARSOUR Linda Sarsour LINDA SARSOUR Linda Sarsour LINDA SARSOUR Linda Sarsour LINDA SARSOUR Linda Sarsour LINDA SARSOUR Linda Sarsour LINDA SARSOUR Linda Sarsour LINDA SARSOUR Linda Sarsour LINDA SARSOUR Linda Sarsour LINDA SARSOUR Linda Sarsour LINDA SARSOUR Linda Sarsour LINDA SARSOUR Linda Sarsour LINDA SARSOUR Linda Sarsour LINDA SARSOUR :eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek::eek: - CNN, MSNBC, Salon, Huffpo, and others are obsessed with putting down white men, flogging them relentlessly which they wouldn’t do to any other group. Trump is a corrective force making it okay to be a white male again and it’s magnificent. \*unknown buffoon before his youtube career ---
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/442 "2018-05-19T15:58:18Z")
> [@Covfefe](#): > > Recapping one of \*youtube’s premiere intellectuals weighing in. [https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKddWnhb3EA](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lKddWnhb3EA) Blast. I forgot to mention there’s this super annoying type of progressive who will actually go so far as to sip from a latte at Starbucks with an Apple laptop sitting in front of them. Their tears are the most delicious. ---
**Author:** ![postpic200](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@postpic200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postpic200)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/443 "2018-05-19T16:05:01Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > **postpic200** , if you’re still reading this thread, I hope you’re willing to answer the question being posed: > > It’s understood that HRC had serious shortcomings and I completely understand why someone would feel that she did not deserve their vote. That said, given Trump’s severe character flaws, many of them mentioned in this very thread, why do you feel that he was deserving of your vote? What specifically motivated you to come out to vote in the last election? Inquiring minds want to know. Yes, I’m still reading this thread I generally don’t follow this board that closely as I have other boards where I discuss politics. I had to edit my response because it was too long. First my many problems I had with Hillary, which I won’t rehash here. But that was a part, although not the only reason, I voted for Trump, he wasn’t Hillary. I also don’t think people who have and continue to break the laws of the US deserve special treatment. Personally, if someone enters the country illegal and gets picked up they should be asked only one question, “Are you claiming asylum?” If they say yes they are held until a judge looks at their case and makes a decision to give or deny them asylum. If they are given asylum then they are allowed in if not they are sent back to their home country. If they say no they aren’t seeking asylum then they are deported immediately. I know people who have lost jobs to illegal aliens, construction, office, cooks, etc so the illegals aren’t just taking jobs American won’t do they are taking jobs from Americans and legal immigrants. I don’t think we should enter trade deals that aren’t in the best interest in the US. Free trade, as I’ve pointed out before, only works if the countries involved at basically the same level when it comes to wages, regulations etc. Trump has his faults; the wall is a stupid idea as there are better and easier way to stop illegal aliens like HUGE fines for hiring someone who can’t legally work in the US. Of course, if you propose that the left scream it would cause discrimination. His tax cuts to corporations, was something I felt need to be done a long time ago, our corporate tax rate was too high compared to other countries. The reduction of federal regulations. Now was Trump my hope and dream, no, in fact I was hoping that someone else would have been nominated, had Trey Gowdy, been chosen he would have gotten my vote. But of the choice I was given, Trump in my opinion was and is a better choice then Hillary was. In a nutshell I felt I was given the choice between two children with stinky diapers, and I picked the one that I though stunk less. ---
**Author:** ![GIGObuster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gigobuster/32/421_2.png) [@GIGObuster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GIGObuster)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/444 "2018-05-19T16:14:03Z")
> [@Covfefe](#): > > - CNN, MSNBC, Salon, Huffpo, and others are obsessed with putting down white men, flogging them relentlessly which they wouldn’t do to any other group. Trump is a corrective force making it okay to be a white male again and it’s magnificent. > [/SIZE] That reminded me of an underground comic I saw 20 years ago, (it was possible older as it was on a compilation book) It showed how a white conservative dude gets to hear the latest from talk radio or fox news. The last panel was him getting his guns, with one gun in each hand getting ready to go on a deadly rampage, and looking at the reader and saying “Hah! I knew that I was right all along!”. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/445 "2018-05-19T16:30:09Z")
> [@postpic200](#): > > …I know people who have lost jobs to illegal aliens, construction, office, cooks, etc so the illegals aren’t just taking jobs American won’t do they are taking jobs from Americans and legal immigrants… Do you, now? Like, on a first name basis? You’ve had dinner with them, a beer, gone bowling? Or are these vaporous identities that post to message boards? You know where they worked, what job they held, and who replaced them? And further, you know the immigration status of their replacement, something one might presume they were reluctant to share. Being illegal, and all. How, perzackly, did you come to be so well-informed? And not just once, but, presumably, several times? ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 4:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/446 "2018-05-19T16:56:10Z")
> [@postpic200](#): > > there are better and easier way to stop illegal aliens like HUGE fines for hiring someone who can’t legally work in the US. Of course, if you propose that the left scream it would cause discrimination. Any evidence of this discrimination? Against whom is this theoretical discrimination? > [@](#): > > In a nutshell I felt I was given the choice between two children with stinky diapers, and I picked the one that I though stunk less. Ever thought about a write-in candidate? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/447 "2018-05-19T17:02:23Z")
> [@postpic200](#): > > Yes, I’m still reading this thread I generally don’t follow this board that closely as I have other boards where I discuss politics. > > I had to edit my response because it was too long. > > First my many problems I had with Hillary, which I won’t rehash here. But that was a part, although not the only reason, I voted for Trump, he wasn’t Hillary. Sure, no need to rehash, as they are pretty weak tea. But really, any flaw you can show of Hillary, I can show that trump is a magnitude worse in that particular area. > [@](#): > > I also don’t think people who have and continue to break the laws of the US deserve special treatment. Personally, if someone enters the country illegal and gets picked up they should be asked only one question, “Are you claiming asylum?” If they say yes they are held until a judge looks at their case and makes a decision to give or deny them asylum. You do realize that most of the immigrants that cross the border illegally actually are seeking asylum, right? I would extend that asylum to include not just direct threats of death by being individually targeted, but also the more general threat of death by living in a country that has weak protections for its people, as well as asylum for people who are suffering under conditions of poverty. As it is, you almost need to get the people from your home country that threatened you to admit it to the US court to get asylum. > [@](#): > > If they are given asylum then they are allowed in if not they are sent back to their home country. If they say no they aren’t seeking asylum then they are deported immediately. Whether they are denied asylum or they are not seeking it, I don’t think that they should be automatically deported. They committed an infraction, to be sure, but there is not only one remedy for that infraction. Levy a fine, put them on probation, require that they work towards citizenship, sure. A blanket “send them back” for all types and reasons for border infractions has as its only benefit being very simple. > [@](#): > > I know people who have lost jobs to illegal aliens, construction, office, cooks, etc so the illegals aren’t just taking jobs American won’t do they are taking jobs from Americans and legal immigrants. Even though I have spent most of my life working in entry level jobs, and most of my peers have also worked entry level jobs, I don’t know anyone that was turned down for a job because an undocumented worker took it instead. And I know businesses that have gone out of business due to not being able to get enough employees to work for them. > [@](#): > > I don’t think we should enter trade deals that aren’t in the best interest in the US. Free trade, as I’ve pointed out before, only works if the countries involved at basically the same level when it comes to wages, regulations etc. That doesn’t make any sense, and is not how trade works. Trade is actually best for a country when the other country has lower wages and regulations, as it means that you get cheaper goods. A trade deal that is a deficit is not a bad thing, it means that the other country produced goods and services for our consumption at a lower cost than we could do ourselves. The main thing to monitor in such a thing is the humanitarian issues of not profiting off of slave labor or other exploitative labor practices, and externalities like environmental damage that will cross their border into others. If we want to decrease the trade deficit, it is up to us to produce goods and services that other countries want to import. Trying to reduce it by limiting and increasing the cost of what american businesses and consumers can purchase does not actually help our economy. And that is not getting into retaliation by other countries for us imposing trade restrictions on their goods. That will harm our economy further by decreasing the amount of goods and services that other countries purchase from us. > [@](#): > > Trump has his faults; the wall is a stupid idea I agree > [@](#): > > as there are better and easier way to stop illegal aliens like HUGE fines for hiring someone who can’t legally work in the US. While I agree that there are better ways of dealing with the illegal immigration issue than the wall, this one is a bit problematic. Many undocumented workers work for themselves or for small contractors. If I hire someone to mow my lawn, am I taking a risk for a HUGE fine if I don’t have them fill out an I-9? The main problem that I see with undocumented workers working in the US is that employers know that they can abuse them. They can pay lower than MW, they can not pay OT. If they are paying under the table, they also are not paying payroll taxes. The employees cannot complain without risking deportation, and the exploitative businesses know that. Cracking down on those businesses I can completely get behind. They knew that they had ineligible workers, which is why they are employing them in a fashion that would be illegal even if they were natural born US citizens. Levying a HUGE fine on a small business because they did not inspect the documents closely enough to spot forgeries (which is hard, as most of them are made by the appropriate govt agencies), while that small business is paying proper wages and payroll taxes, not so much. > [@](#): > > Of course, if you propose that the left scream it would cause discrimination. Maybe the left field strawmen. > [@](#): > > His tax cuts to corporations, was something I felt need to be done a long time ago, our corporate tax rate was too high compared to other countries. Good talking point, but not backed by reality. While the US did sport a slightly higher top marginal rate for corporate taxes than some other countries, it also sported more loopholes and deductions than most others as well, leaving the actual effective tax rate substantially lower than most other countries. Now, lowering the tax rate, while closing the loopholes, that would be reasonable. But leaving them in while lowering it means that the effective tax rate is now substantially lower than the rest of the world. Or hell, they could have structure the tax rate in such a way to give that corporate rate to small independently owned businesses, which is where all the actual growth in the economy comes from, but they chose not to. > [@](#): > > The reduction of federal regulations. As we’ve talked about upthread, there are some regulations that could be revised or even scrapped. But you need to talk about specific ones. The regulation that requires that you fill out (fictional example) 7 forms in triplicate before you are allowed to mow your grass could be revised or scrapped. The regulation that requires that chemical plants not dump toxic chemicals into the river, maybe we should hold onto that one. So, cite specific regulations that you have seen rolled back or revisited that make you happy. Not just a blanket “reduction of regulations.” > [@](#): > > Now was Trump my hope and dream, no, in fact I was hoping that someone else would have been nominated, had Trey Gowdy, been chosen he would have gotten my vote. But of the choice I was given, Trump in my opinion was and is a better choice then Hillary was. I’ll grant that Gowdy is probably less stupid than trump, bu as he got into politics by primarying another republican because that republican had the nerve to admit that climate change was caused by man, I don’t really trust any of his politics. > [@](#): > > In a nutshell I felt I was given the choice between two children with stinky diapers, and I picked the one that I though stunk less. Yeah, that’s your choice. However, in this case, the reason that you thought that the one you picked stank less is because you adore the smell of fetid fecal matter. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 5:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/448 "2018-05-19T17:07:50Z")
Well, now, realistically, baby shit is the weapons-grade of fecal, the turd plutonium! (Have a kid, they said. Its really _great_, you’ll love it, they said…) ---
**Author:** ![postpic200](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@postpic200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postpic200)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 5:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/449 "2018-05-19T17:31:12Z")
> [@Leo\_Krupe](#): > > Any evidence of this discrimination? Against whom is this theoretical discrimination? > Ever thought about a write-in candidate? General the left has said Mexicans would be hit by any law like this. And yes, but a vote for someone who has no chance of winning is a useless vote. On my other board I said we should vote for Fred (my cat). ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/450 "2018-05-19T17:38:59Z")
> [@postpic200](#): > > General the left has said Mexicans would be hit by any law like this. Who is “General the left”? I’ve never met him, nor heard his claim. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/451 "2018-05-19T18:12:09Z")
A sinister fellow, best avoided. ---
**Author:** ![postpic200](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/54ee81/32.png) [@postpic200](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/postpic200)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 7:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/452 "2018-05-19T19:11:33Z")
“Sure, no need to rehash, as they are pretty weak tea. …“ In your opinion, in mine the whole email, the quid pro quo of the Clinton Foundation issue (funny how donations dried up when she lost) along with her and her parties stands on other issues, were enough to really make me doubt that she could lead the country in a direction I was comfortable with. “You do realize that most of the immigrants that cross the border illegally actually are seeking asylum, right?..” Sure, and they should turn themselves in ASAP and have their asylum case heard in court. I put those seeking asylum in a different class then illegal alien. “Whether they are denied asylum or they are not seeking it, I don’t think that they should be automatically deported……” If they aren’t seeking asylum, they have proven by their actions they don’t respect the laws of the US. If they are seeking asylum and get denied, I would have no problem with the US helping them find a country that would be willing to take them in. “Even though I have spent most of my life working in entry level jobs, and most of my peers have also worked entry level jobs, ….” I have, it may it’s just where your located. And you don’t know for sure if you didn’t get a job because of an illegal. The point is they aren’t just taking job Americans won’t do, they are taking jobs Americans will and were doing. “That doesn’t make any sense, and is not how trade works…. “ But at what cost, sure you get you goods at a lower cost, but don’t you also have to take into consideration the people you put out of work and the social cost of that? Again, if the economies are similar, then free trade works. But when they are not you have a drain on one economy to benefit another. Also, if the regulations are lower could you not just be polluting the other country? “Many undocumented workers work for themselves or for small contractors….” Assuming you’d check to see if they had a business license then you would have done your due diligence and thus would be free of any fines. All business at some point verity if their employees are legal to work in the US as long as they did due diligence (through E-verify or some other means) they woudn’t be fined, if it turned out the person wasn’t able to legally work in the US. I don’t expect business to know every document, but I also know of one business and one farmer in my small town who knowingly hired people who couldn’t work legally in the US. “ While the US did sport a slightly higher top marginal rate for corporate taxes than some other countries,…” Personally we need to look at the whole tax structure, get rid of many of the regulations and simplify the tax system. I say that even though my taxes would probable go up. We spend way too much time and money on preparing taxes, in a system that at best is confusing. I know that’s a pipe dream, but I can wish. “As we’ve talked about upthread, there are some regulations that could be revised or even scrapped…” ALL regulations need to be review and changed or scraped at some point. The way navigable waterway for one example really needs to be look at, also the regulations to do with wetlands we had farms who had wet spots in their field declared wetland, even when they don’t hold water most years and were farm for many generations. “Yeah, that’s your choice. However, in this case,…” No don’t adore fetid fecal matter, those were the choices we were we given. On one had I saw someone I couldn’t trust at all, and one I could only trust a little bit more. Really the fact we basically let the parties decided who going to run means we are always going to have a limited choice. Run offs may be a better way, first a person would have to win a state, you can only run in your home state, if you win get on a national ballot, with air time given to you now have 50 people running, and we can pare that down until we get a new president. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/453 "2018-05-19T19:42:12Z")
> [@postpic200](#): > > …And you don’t know for sure if you didn’t get a job because of an illegal. The point is they aren’t just taking job Americans won’t do, they are taking jobs Americans will and were doing… If you don’t know “for sure” on Item A, how is it that you are so certain about Item B? This is one of the many places your arguments could be much improved with citation and reference. You know, numbers and stuff. Really, give it a shot, you might get to like it! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/454 "2018-05-19T20:16:52Z")
Thanks for responding, **postpic200**. Once again, HRC had serious faults and I’m not trying to convince you otherwise. Point 1: I see that illegal immigration is a major concern for you. Particularly people coming here illegally and working without valid work permits. Were you aware at the time you voted for Trump that he hired illegal immigrant workers to work in his hotels & properties? If so, why did you endorse a candidate who did the very thing you claim to be against? Was the hypocrisy of his campaign promises acceptable to you? Point 2: You said that NAFTA trade deal is fine between countries with compatible economic and regulation principles. Canada is one of the trade partners covered by the NAFTA agreement. Do you have objections to free trade with Canada? In what specific way was Canada taking advantage of the US within the context of NAFTA? Point 3: With respect to corporate tax cuts; are you a small business owner? In what way to you believe you stand to benefit from these tax cuts? Point 4: You have not mentioned the ACA. What is your opinion of the ACA and to a larger point, a national healthcare system that covers everyone? Point 5: Do you believe that Barack Obama was born a US citizen, or do you believe, like Trump, that he was born elsewhere and lied about his birth certificate? What are your thoughts about Trump’s years long campaign to malign and delegitimize the Obama presidency. Point 6: Do you believe that Trump has the moral character and intellectual fitness to hold the office of President of the United States? Thanks in advance for your thoughtful responses. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/455 "2018-05-19T20:53:13Z")
> [@postpic200](#): > > In your opinion, in mine the whole email, the quid pro quo of the Clinton Foundation issue (funny how donations dried up when she lost) along with her and her parties stands on other issues, were enough to really make me doubt that she could lead the country in a direction I was comfortable with. What is “the whole email?” Do you actually know the facts of what happened, or is this just a talking point? Does the fact that the trump administration has had several incidents that are far more serious than her emails bother you at all? There is nothing more than circumstantial rumors about quid pro quo, everything levied didn’t even come close to sticking. OTOH, trump isn’t hiding his pay for play access to the presidency. I don’t know what stands on issues you are talking about here, but are you comfortable with the direction that trump and his administration is taking the country? > [@](#): > > Sure, and they should turn themselves in ASAP and have their asylum case heard in court. I put those seeking asylum in a different class then illegal alien. And many do. But, they are often then denied entry. Some aren’t even given the option of going to a court. > [@](#): > > If they aren’t seeking asylum, they have proven by their actions they don’t respect the laws of the US. If you are driving 56 in a 55, you have proven by your actions that you don’t respect the laws of the US. If we had a reasonable immigration system that actually did allow people who wanted to come here to come here, then I would agree that doing so in a less legal fashion should be strongly frowned upon. As it is, the only way for the to enter the US is illegally, it’s not them not respect our laws so much as our laws being suboptimal to promote justice and fairness. > [@](#): > > If they are seeking asylum and get denied, I would have no problem with the US helping them find a country that would be willing to take them in. The reason that we deny asylum is because we decide that we do not find the threat to their lives to be credible enough, not that we don’t have anywhere to put them. > [@](#): > > I have, it may it’s just where your located. And you don’t know for sure if you didn’t get a job because of an illegal. The point is they aren’t just taking job Americans won’t do, they are taking jobs Americans will and were doing. To be honest, they are better at them as well. When I worked with people who were most likely ineligible to be working in the US, I found that they had far better work ethic than the americans who would work these jobs. In any case, I do doubt the case that people were denied jobs because ineligible workers were taking them. They may have been denied jobs because they were not able to perform as well as ineligible workers, but that’s a different matter. > [@](#): > > But at what cost, sure you get you goods at a lower cost, but don’t you also have to take into consideration the people you put out of work and the social cost of that? No. If I open a factory that produces more widgets with fewer employees, do I have to take into consideration the people put out of work? When you do restrict trade, do you take into consideration the people put out of work because factories and businesses have to pay more for the goods they sell, so have less money for payroll? > [@](#): > > Again, if the economies are similar, then free trade works. But when they are not you have a drain on one economy to benefit another. Also, if the regulations are lower could you not just be polluting the other country? How is it a drain on the economy of a rich country to have another country producing goods for less than they can do themselves? It means that people have more money to but more stuff, it means that people get paid more to produce more stuff. And that’s not even counting the fact that it isn’t Mexico that is selling these goods, it is American companies that buy these goods and sell them to Americans. And, as far as environmental concerns, I did already address that. Poor working conditions and environmental regulations are the only real reasons, IMHO to impose a punitive style tariff. > [@](#): > > Assuming you’d check to see if they had a business license then you would have done your due diligence and thus would be free of any fines. You don’t really need to have a “business license” to do business in the US. What you are proposing would be imposing a whole new level of bureaucracy for small businesses. Many will file a DBA with their state, to protect their business name, but that’s it, and it doesn’t require anything except a $35 check. Aside from that, do you need to see the business license of the kid that knocks on your door and asks if you want your lawn mowed? > [@](#): > > All business at some point verity if their employees are legal to work in the US as long as they did due diligence (through E-verify or some other means) Yes, that is taking the documents that they have given you and filling out the I-9. > [@](#): > > they woudn’t be fined, if it turned out the person wasn’t able to legally work in the US. I don’t expect business to know every document, but I also know of one business and one farmer in my small town who knowingly hired people who couldn’t work legally in the US. I’ve worked for business that hired people that couldn’t work legally in the US, as well. They still had proper documentation. > [@](#): > > Personally we need to look at the whole tax structure, get rid of many of the regulations and simplify the tax system. I say that even though my taxes would probable go up. We spend way too much time and money on preparing taxes, in a system that at best is confusing. I know that’s a pipe dream, but I can wish. I never understood this. What is so complicated about taxes? The vast majority of people can complete the 1040EZ, which takes like 15 minutes if you know where your w-2’s are. 1040A isn’t that much more, and is only necessary if you have assets that make you money, and anything more complex than that is because you make enough money that you hire accountants to avoid whatever taxes you can. Now, business taxes are more complex, sure. But that is because I don’t pay taxes on costs of doing business, but I have to ensure that the only things that I avoid taxes on are legitimate business costs. Up until I opened my own place, I did my own taxes every year. I tried doing them the first year I was open, and realized that, even though I technically could, it was better to have someone else go over them, to make sure that I was paying my due share, but no more. > [@](#): > > ALL regulations need to be review and changed or scraped at some point. The way navigable waterway for one example really needs to be look at, also the regulations to do with wetlands we had farms who had wet spots in their field declared wetland, even when they don’t hold water most years and were farm for many generations. Well, that particular one is a complex subject that could have a thread of its own, but do you see here how already you are showing that there is nuance, and more regulations is not always bad, and less regulations are not always good? > [@](#): > > No don’t adore fetid fecal matter, those were the choices we were we given. On one had I saw someone I couldn’t trust at all, and one I could only trust a little bit more. I disagree with your assessment, in that, while Clinton was certainly a politician, and all the assemblies that that entails, trump was simply a liar who had no desire whatsoever for even pretending to respect the truth. > [@](#): > > Really the fact we basically let the parties decided who going to run means we are always going to have a limited choice. Run offs may be a better way, first a person would have to win a state, you can only run in your home state, if you win get on a national ballot, with air time given to you now have 50 people running, and we can pare that down until we get a new president. And if we voted on popular vote, Hillary would have won! It is not the fault of the political parties that our election system is the way it is. There are some very dead very white men that you can cast the blame on for that. I have many better methods of choosing our elected representatives than our current system, but I’ve yet to convince 2/3 majority of both house and senate, as well as the legislatures of 3/4’s the states. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 9:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/456 "2018-05-19T21:12:59Z")
> [@postpic200](#): > > General the left has said Mexicans would be hit by any law like this. And yes, but a vote for someone who has no chance of winning is a useless vote. On my other board I said we should vote for Fred (my cat). I’m going to guess you mean “generally the left,” and go with that. So you have no cite for what the left thinks in regard to what you said, and rely on a blanket statement. (Not that “the left” is a monolithic bloc, all thinking, and acting, the same.) Trump himself didn’t think he had a chance of winning, so by definition, you cast a useless vote. Cites: > **[Donald Trump Never Thought He Would Become President](https://www.newsweek.com/mike-pence-donald-jr-and-melania-never-thought-trump-would-become-president-769701)** > > President Trump's campaign was dumbfounded and afraid on the night of the election in 2016. > [@](#): > > No one on Donald Trump’s presidential campaign team thought Trump would actually become president—and they didn’t really want him to either, according to excerpts from Michael Wolff’s book published Wednesday in New York magazine. [https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-14/trump-says-he-expected-to-lose-election-because-of-poll-results](https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2016-12-14/trump-says-he-expected-to-lose-election-because-of-poll-results) > [@](#): > > Donald Trump was just as surprised as the rest of the country.The president elect said publicly on Tuesday that he expected to lose the election to Democrat Hillary Clinton, based on polls showing him behind in several critical states. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Krupe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/ebca7d/32.png) [@Leo\_Krupe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Krupe)\ **Post date:** [May 19, 2018, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/457 "2018-05-19T21:16:41Z")
> [@postpic200](#): > > The point is they aren’t just taking job Americans won’t do, they are taking jobs Americans will and were doing. Why is that? Why are companies hiring undocumented workers instead of Americans? And how are the “illegals” “taking” jobs? ---
**Author:** ![Monty](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/monty/32/47_2.png) [@Monty](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Monty)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/458 "2018-05-20T00:02:23Z")
> [@postpic200](#): > > Yes, I’m still reading this thread I generally don’t follow this board that closely as I have other boards where I discuss politics. I’m betting that’s because the other boards let you get away with stuff that does not go unchallenged on this board. > [@](#): > > I had to edit my response because it was too long. Actually, this board’s software can handle long posts, and the board’s membership isn’t always of the “TLDR” mindset for something they consider to be of import. [quoteFirst my many problems I had with Hillary, which I won’t rehash here. But that was a part, although not the only reason, I voted for Trump, **he wasn’t Hillary.** [quote] The part I put in bold is your mantra. That really is, as I shall show, your real reason for not voting for her. It has nothing to do with her qualities or lack thereof, nor of Trump or anything he has done or stands for. > [@](#): > > I also don’t think people who have and continue to break the laws of the US deserve special treatment. Would you consider getting elected President of the United States of America to be special treatment. I certainly would, as would most other thinking people. Trump has made a career out of not only breaking local and federal law, but of breaking the very same law after getting caught out. He is currently violating the constitution along with other laws. So, no, you do not give a hoot about a candidate breaking federal laws. Your reason for voting for Trump was **he wasn’t Hillary.** [quotePersonally, if someone enters the country illegal and gets picked up they should be asked only one question, “Are you claiming asylum?” If they say yes they are held until a judge looks at their case and makes a decision to give or deny them asylum. If they are given asylum then they are allowed in if not they are sent back to their home country. If they say no they aren’t seeking asylum then they are deported immediately.[/quote] No, they should be treated the way federal law and the federal constitution requires. Or are you comfortable advocating unconstitutional actions by the government? > [@](#): > > I know people who have lost jobs to illegal aliens, construction, office, cooks, etc so the illegals aren’t just taking jobs American won’t do they are taking jobs from Americans and legal immigrants. Look, if you’re going to lie, at least put forth a tad more effort with it. Office workers? Get real. So, if you know people who have lost jobs to undocumented aliens (as opposed to knowing people who **say** they “have lost jobs to illegal aliens\*\*”), then surely you know what job they lost, who the employer was, and were in position to report both the undocumented aliens and the employer to the appropriate government agency for violating the law. But did you? Of course you didn’t. As another poster mentioned, your hero Trump has hired undocumented aliens. So, if you really care about that, you would be calling for his impeachment. You aren’t because you don’t care about Ms. Clinton’s or the Democrats’ stance on a humane and realistic immigration policy. Your only reason for voting for Trump was **he wasn’t Hillary.** [quoteI don’t think we should enter trade deals that aren’t in the best interest in the US. Free trade, as I’ve pointed out before, only works if the countries involved at basically the same level when it comes to wages, regulations etc.[/quote] As another poster pointed out, you are woefully mistaken in what constitutes a good trade deal. It certainly is not in the best interests of the American worker for the goods he produced to be unsellable, to coin a word. Trade wars hurt the American worker. > [@](#): > > Trump has his faults; the wall is a stupid idea as there are better and easier way to stop illegal aliens like HUGE fines for hiring someone who can’t legally work in the US. Of course, if you propose that the left scream it would cause discrimination. Of course the wall is a stupid idea. It was thrown out as a bigoted, ill-thought out bit of chum to a bigoted crowd. The traction he got with that crowd encouraged him to keep going with a stupid idea. Huge fines for hiring undocumented aliens is also a stupid idea. Quite a number of businesses rely on undocumented aliens and the low cost of that labor to keep the price of their goods and services down. Are you willing to pay more for those goods? Are you willing to pay higher taxes to enforce the laws, which by the way are mostly at the level of misdemeanor? > [@](#): > > His tax cuts to corporations, was something I felt need to be done a long time ago, our corporate tax rate was too high compared to other countries. As explained to you by another poster, this is also mistaken. Corporations don’t really pay taxes; their customers do. Where do you think the corporation’s money comes from? > [@](#): > > The reduction of federal regulations. This is simply a nonsensical point. The vast majority of federal regulations are in place because of laws requiring them. Have you ever looked at a government form? I certainly have, as part of my duties in the military was forms control and design. There is a lot of law covering government regulations. One cannot just make up a regulation or chuck one out for the fun of it. Also, as the other poster mentioned, there are varying levels of federal regulations. And, of course, the purpose varies. Some are more important than others. You really don’t care about that, though, because Trump has already walked over regulations he doesn’t care about or can’t be bothered to learn about. Again, your only reason for Trump, then, really was **he wasn’t Hillary.** > [@](#): > > Now was Trump my hope and dream, no, in fact I was hoping that someone else would have been nominated, had Trey Gowdy, been chosen he would have gotten my vote. You are aware that you could work for nomination for other people, aren’t you? The United States does have more than two political parties, and there are more than two parties currently represented in the federal legislature. You can also, as mentioned already, write in a candidate. So, what makes Gowdy so great? After all, **he wasn’t Hillary.** > [@](#): > > But of the choice I was given, Trump in my opinion was and is a better choice then Hillary was. Than, not then. (Sorry; it’s a pet peeve.) Trump is demonstrably worse on any critique leveled against her than Ms. Clinton is or ever could be. [quoteIn a nutshell I felt I was given the choice between two children with stinky diapers, and I picked the one that I though stunk less.[/QUOTE] Actually, you didn’t. > [@elucidator](#): > > Do you, now? Like, on a first name basis? You’ve had dinner with them, a beer, gone bowling? Or are these vaporous identities that post to message boards? They don’t exist. He’s a liar. quote]You know where they worked, what job they held, and who replaced them? And further, you know the immigration status of their replacement, something one might presume they were reluctant to share. Being illegal, and all. How, perzackly, did you come to be so well-informed? And not just once, but, presumably, several times? [/QUOTE] And why didn’t he report them to the appropriate government agencies? Simple answer: they don’t exist. He’s a liar > [@k9bfriender](#): > > > [@postpic200](#): > > > > General the left has said Mexicans would be hit by any law like this. And yes, but a vote for someone who has no chance of winning is a useless vote. On my other board I said we should vote for Fred (my cat). > > Who is “General the left”? I’ve never met him, nor heard his claim. Likely another person who doesn’t exist. (For the humor impaired: I’m going with the joke on the bad typing of the liar.) > [@postpic200](#): > > “Sure, no need to rehash, as they are pretty weak tea. …“ > > In your opinion, in mine the whole email, the quid pro quo of the Clinton Foundation issue (funny how donations dried up when she lost) along with her and her parties stands on other issues, were enough to really make me doubt that she could lead the country in a direction I was comfortable with. If you really were all that concerned about the E-mail issue, you would be up in arms demanding Trump be impeached because of the Trump’s administration’s “E-mail issue”. But you’re not. All you really care about **he wasn’t Hillary.** > [@](#): > > “You do realize that most of the immigrants that cross the border illegally actually are seeking asylum, right?..” > > Sure, and they should turn themselves in ASAP and have their asylum case heard in court. I put those seeking asylum in a different class then illegal alien. > > “Whether they are denied asylum or they are not seeking it, I don’t think that they should be automatically deported……” > > If they aren’t seeking asylum, they have proven by their actions they don’t respect the laws of the US. If they are seeking asylum and get denied, I would have no problem with the US helping them find a country that would be willing to take them in. You might want to quit tossing out the whole “don’t respect the laws of the US” thing since your hero Trump certainly has no respect for the laws, nor the constitution, of the US. Again, all you really care about is **he wasn’t Hillary.** [quote] “Even though I have spent most of my life working in entry level jobs, and most of my peers have also worked entry level jobs, ….” > [@](#): > > I have, it may it’s just where your located. And you don’t know for sure if you didn’t get a job because of an illegal. The point is they aren’t just taking job Americans won’t do, they are taking jobs Americans will and were doing. How many of those jobs, really, have you or your friends really applied for? None. Nobody is competing for jobs that pay less than minimum wage and do not offer things required by federal and local law. So, this is nonsense from you. Also, as pointed out a number of times, Trump himself avails himself of undocumented alien labor. If you really care about that, then you would be demanding his impeachment now and would not have voted for him. But all you really care about is **he wasn’t Hillary.** [quote] “That doesn’t make any sense, and is not how trade works…. “ But at what cost, sure you get you goods at a lower cost, but don’t you also have to take into consideration the people you put out of work and the social cost of that? Again, if the economies are similar, then free trade works. But when they are not you have a drain on one economy to benefit another. Also, if the regulations are lower could you not just be polluting the other country? “Many undocumented workers work for themselves or for small contractors….” Assuming you’d check to see if they had a business license then you would have done your due diligence and thus would be free of any fines. [quote] Employees do not require a business license to get a job. > [@](#): > > All business at some point verity if their employees are legal to work in the US as long as they did due diligence (through E-verify or some other means) they woudn’t be fined, if it turned out the person wasn’t able to legally work in the US. That stuff costs money. Are you willing to pay more for the business’s goods and services? Are you willing to pay higher taxes? > [@](#): > > I don’t expect business to know every document, but I also know of one business and one farmer in my small town who knowingly hired people who couldn’t work legally in the US. Bullshit. The list of documents that proves eligibility to work in the US is not that long. Also, only one farmer in a rural community? Only one business? That’s some weapons grade bullshit there, postpic. What on Earth brought them to such a wonderful, idyllic place which had only two jobs available for undocumented aliens, jobs which, of course, nobody was fool enough to advertise? > [@](#): > > “ While the US did sport a slightly higher top marginal rate for corporate taxes than some other countries,…” > > Personally we need to look at the whole tax structure, get rid of many of the regulations and simplify the tax system. I say that even though my taxes would probable go up. We spend way too much time and money on preparing taxes, in a system that at best is confusing. I know that’s a pipe dream, but I can wish. You could probably also get one of those undocumented office workers to help you with the English language. Anyway, you’re now just repeating a different mantra: “simplify the tax code”, “it costs to much to prepare taxes”, “the tax code is confusing”. Okay, granted. Explain how it should be simplified. Explain how it costs too much to prepare taxes. Explain how it should be simplified. Really, though, you don’t care about that. Democrats have said the same thing. But all you really care about is **he wasn’t Hillary.** > [@](#): > > “As we’ve talked about upthread, there are some regulations that could be revised or even scrapped…” > > ALL regulations need to be review and changed or scraped at some point. The way navigable waterway for one example really needs to be look at, also the regulations to do with wetlands we had farms who had wet spots in their field declared wetland, even when they don’t hold water most years and were farm for many generations. Clearly you’re not a geologist or environmental scientist. > [@](#): > > “Yeah, that’s your choice. However, in this case,…” > > No don’t adore fetid fecal matter, those were the choices we were we given. On one had I saw someone I couldn’t trust at all, and one I could only trust a little bit more. Your stated reasons for not trusting Ms. Clinton are the same things that Trump is far worse on. And speaking of not being able to trust someone, why do you trust someone who spread that bigoted birther nonsense? > [@](#): > > Really the fact we basically let the parties decided who going to run means we are always going to have a limited choice. Run offs may be a better way, first a person would have to win a state, you can only run in your home state, if you win get on a national ballot, with air time given to you now have 50 people running, and we can pare that down until we get a new president. Party politics is quite different than you seem to think it is. And your suggestion is completely unworkable. Why shouldn’t a party get to decide who the party’s candidate for a particular office is? > [@QuickSilver](#): > > Thanks for responding, **postpic200**. Once again, HRC had serious faults and I’m not trying to convince you otherwise. > > Point 1: I see that illegal immigration is a major concern for you. Particularly people coming here illegally and working without valid work permits. Were you aware at the time you voted for Trump that he hired illegal immigrant workers to work in his hotels & properties? If so, why did you endorse a candidate who did the very thing you claim to be against? Was the hypocrisy of his campaign promises acceptable to you? > > Point 2: You said that NAFTA trade deal is fine between countries with compatible economic and regulation principles. Canada is one of the trade partners covered by the NAFTA agreement. Do you have objections to free trade with Canada? In what specific way was Canada taking advantage of the US within the context of NAFTA? > > Point 3: With respect to corporate tax cuts; are you a small business owner? In what way to you believe you stand to benefit from these tax cuts? > > Point 4: You have not mentioned the ACA. What is your opinion of the ACA and to a larger point, a national healthcare system that covers everyone? > > Point 5: Do you believe that Barack Obama was born a US citizen, or do you believe, like Trump, that he was born elsewhere and lied about his birth certificate? What are your thoughts about Trump’s years long campaign to malign and delegitimize the Obama presidency. > > Point 6: Do you believe that Trump has the moral character and intellectual fitness to hold the office of President of the United States? > > Thanks in advance for your thoughtful responses. I still don’t see the liar’s answers to these very good questions. (I’m in a hurry; don’t want to be late to church; may have missed it; will check when I get home.) ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/459 "2018-05-20T02:40:15Z")
> [@Monty](#): > > (I’m in a hurry; don’t want to be late to church…) That explains the messed-up quote tags. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![steatopygia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steatopygia/32/3132_2.png) [@steatopygia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/steatopygia)\ **Post date:** [May 20, 2018, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064/460 "2018-05-20T03:01:27Z")
This whole “Like Donald Trump” thing is simple. Do you watch Fox news? If you do, then you like Trump. If you do, then you hate Hillary. It really does boil down to; Do you watch Fox news? All debates should start with that question. If the answer is yes, debating with logic and facts is a waste of time. Look where it has taken us. To Donald fucking Trump being president. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064.md?page=22) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-like-donald-trump-as-president/814064.md?page=24)