# Why do you need a gun? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [January 11, 2013, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-need-a-gun/646873 "2013-01-11T17:22:24Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 10
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-need-a-gun/646873/181 "2013-01-13T19:17:31Z")
> [@Kable](#): > > Fear itself, wouldn’t you like to confiscate semi-auto rifles at least? I don’t want to confiscate any guns that are currently legal for unrestricted private ownership. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-need-a-gun/646873/182 "2013-01-13T19:35:48Z")
> [@ed\_anger](#): > > let me leave this here for everyone arguing that gun regulation is equal to a gun ban: > > For most products, comprehensive regulation is enacted when the obvious dangers of the product can no longer be ignored or the death toll associated with a class of products is determined to be unacceptable. Yet firearms have remained immune from regulation. The first step toward reducing firearms violence is to recognize firearms for what they are–inherently dangerous consumer products. The second is to design a comprehensive, workable regulatory framework that can be applied to firearms and firearms products. Firearms are not immune from regulation nor is any gun inherently violent. It’s an inanimate object. > [@ed\_anger](#): > > Ultimately, meaningful regulation of the manufacture, distribution and sale of firearms, firearms products and ammunition will come about only through comprehensive legislation giving the ATF the regulatory tools wielded by other federal health and safety agencies whose job it is to protect citizens from unreasonably dangerous and defective products. we already have legal remedies for defective products. > [@ed\_anger](#): > > \*As with products regulated by the EPA, the CPSC and the FDA, there is a consensus that some firearms should remain available to the civilian population. \*There is also a consensus that more controls should be enacted There is no consensus on this at all. And we do not hold constitutional rights up to consensus nor should we. Your concern for gun owners is duly noted and disbelieved. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 8:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-need-a-gun/646873/183 "2013-01-13T20:04:58Z")
> [@Fear\_Itself](#): > > I don’t want to confiscate any guns that are currently legal for unrestricted private ownership. That’s hardly an answer. I had to pass a federal background check when I bought my semi-auto handgun. Does that count as a restriction on private ownership? ---
**Author:** ![ed\_anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbce88/32.png) [@ed\_anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ed_anger)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-need-a-gun/646873/184 "2013-01-13T20:08:39Z")
> [@artemis](#): > > No, it does not. Morton Grove showed gun owners why registration is a bad idea: because there ARE people out there who will in fact pass laws to take their legally-owned property away, and registration list would give those people the power to enforce their otherwise-unenforceable law. (Just like Chicago did.) spurious connection. you claimed gun registration leads to confiscation, and failed to prove your case. this was not registration. ---
**Author:** ![Lumpy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lumpy/32/446_2.png) [@Lumpy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lumpy)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-need-a-gun/646873/185 "2013-01-13T20:22:28Z")
> [@ed\_anger](#): > > spurious connection. you claimed gun registration leads to confiscation, and failed to prove your case. this was not registration. Gun registration certainly makes confiscation a lot easier. In the case of the proposed Assault Weapon Ban, it’s explicitly for _eventually_ banning the grandfathered firearms, by registering who the legal owner is so they can’t be sold or transferred, then making sure they’re impounded when the registered owner dies. That the government won’t be immediately going door to door rounding up guns doesn’t change the fact that it will be a slow-motion confiscation. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-need-a-gun/646873/186 "2013-01-13T20:23:59Z")
**ed anger** , did you just copy and paste that entire thing? Is there some reason you can’t come up with a cogent position yourself? Unfortunately, the website you found is not particularly cogent either. > [@ed\_anger](#): > > For most products, comprehensive regulation is enacted when the obvious dangers of the product can no longer be ignored or the death toll associated with a class of products is determined to be unacceptable. Yet firearms have remained immune from regulation. **The first step toward reducing firearms violence is to recognize firearms for what they are–inherently dangerous consumer products.** The second is to design a comprehensive, workable regulatory framework that can be applied to firearms and firearms products. This article is trying to draw a connection between regulation of unsafe consumer products and firearms. The problem is that firearms are demonstrably not unsafe. Gun owners would not tolerate an unsafe firearm, e.g. a firearm that was defective, likely to be fired unintentionally, likely to explode when fired, etc. The argument for regulation of guns is that they can be used to intentionally harm others - not they are inherently dangerous or unsafe. So this whole little screed you lifted from the “Violence Policy Center” is based on a flawed and/or misleading premise. Firearms are weapons, yes. That does not mean they are “inherently dangerous”. “Inherently dangerous” implies that firearms cannot be controlled by their user, and pose a danger by their very existence - like an automobile with a defective steering system that could fail at highway speed. This is not the case. > [@](#): > > Ultimately, meaningful regulation of the manufacture, distribution and sale of firearms, firearms products and ammunition will come about only through comprehensive legislation giving the ATF the regulatory tools wielded by other federal health and safety agencies whose job it is to protect citizens from unreasonably dangerous and defective products. Again, this article is confusing the issue. Regulation of defective guns in the same manner as regulation of other defective consumer products is a non-issue in the gun control debate. > [@](#): > > Reduce the availability of specific categories of weapons shown to pose an unreasonable risk of injury. There is no category of guns shown to pose an unreasonable risk of injury. This is just absurd. A person can pick up any gun and intentionally shoot someone. Just like a person can pick up any knife and intentionally stab someone. Or get in any car and intentionally run someone over. Hell, you can beat the shit out of someone with a $5 tire iron if you want to. Guns can be used to intentionally harm people. Fine, I am perfectly happy to discuss ways to keep guns out of the hands of people who are likely to want to harm people. But pretending that guns are “inherently dangerous”, and that this should be the basis of some kind of new regulatory scheme ,is stupid, and exposes the author as someone who has probably never even handled a gun. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 8:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-need-a-gun/646873/187 "2013-01-13T20:24:26Z")
> [@ed\_anger](#): > > spurious connection. you claimed gun registration leads to confiscation, and failed to prove your case. this was not registration. The key word is registration. This is the line in the sand. And the argument for this line does not alter it’s movement by the width of an atom. ---
**Author:** ![ed\_anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbce88/32.png) [@ed\_anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ed_anger)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-need-a-gun/646873/188 "2013-01-13T20:26:43Z")
> [@Lumpy](#): > > Gun registration certainly makes confiscation a lot easier. In the case of the proposed Assault Weapon Ban, it’s explicitly for _eventually_ banning the grandfathered firearms, by registering who the legal owner is so they can’t be sold or transferred, then making sure they’re impounded when the registered owner dies. That the government won’t be immediately going door to door rounding up guns doesn’t change the fact that it will be a slow-motion confiscation. it’s called an Assault Weapon **Ban** , I don’t think the intent is hidden, no? artemis was arguing that all people suggesting registration have a hidden agenda toward a complete ban of all firearms, I’m saying there’s absolutely no proof of that. be as paranoid as you want though, that seems to be a common gun owner refrain. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-need-a-gun/646873/189 "2013-01-13T20:32:10Z")
> [@ed\_anger](#): > > ] > artemis was arguing that all people suggesting registration have a hidden agenda toward a complete ban of all firearms, I’m saying they do not. The existence of some people that would be satisfied with a registration program is irrelevant. I’m sure you are correct. But there exist plenty of people who want nothing short of a complete ban, and support a registration program because it would make it easier for them to achieve their goal. A year or two after a registration program was passed, they’d start pushing for more. ---
**Author:** ![ed\_anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbce88/32.png) [@ed\_anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ed_anger)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-need-a-gun/646873/190 "2013-01-13T20:36:28Z")
> [@Absolute](#): > > The existence of some people that would be satisfied with a registration program is irrelevant. I’m sure you are correct. But there exist plenty of people who want nothing short of a complete ban, and support a registration program because it would make it easier for them to achieve their goal. A year or two after a registration program was passed, they’d start pushing for more. there’s people on all parts of the spectrum. it doesn’t negate the fact that registration and additional safety requirements could save lives and should be introduced. ---
**Author:** ![ChickenLegs](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@ChickenLegs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ChickenLegs)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-need-a-gun/646873/191 "2013-01-13T20:36:45Z")
> [@ed\_anger](#): > > again, there was no registration and then seizure. my point stands. Are you claiming that there has never been registration followed by seizure in the United States, or anywhere? ---
**Author:** ![ed\_anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbce88/32.png) [@ed\_anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ed_anger)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 8:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-need-a-gun/646873/192 "2013-01-13T20:38:28Z")
> [@ChickenLegs](#): > > Are you claiming that there has never been registration followed by seizure in the United States, or anywhere? read the thread. ---
**Author:** ![Absolute](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b2d939/32.png) [@Absolute](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Absolute)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-need-a-gun/646873/193 "2013-01-13T20:41:38Z")
> [@ed\_anger](#): > > there’s people on all parts of the spectrum. it doesn’t negate the fact that registration and additional safety requirements could save lives and should be introduced. If I believed that a gun registration program would not be hijacked as part of a later total ban, I would agree with you. Unless, in exchange for a gun registration program, the gun control advocates would accept passing a constitutional amendment that clearly and explicitly states semi-auto handguns/rifles/large-capacity magazines/etc. will never be banned, I would not support a firearm registration program. Of course, they’d never agree to that. I think a reasonable solution would be a gun _owner_ registration/licensing program. I don’t see any problem with requiring that every gun owner or operator have a license. And I don’t see what additional benefit a firearm registration program would provide over that anyway. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-need-a-gun/646873/194 "2013-01-13T20:47:58Z")
> [@ed\_anger](#): > > it’s called an Assault Weapon **Ban** , I don’t think the intent is hidden, no? > > artemis was arguing that all people suggesting registration have a hidden agenda toward a complete ban of all firearms, I’m saying there’s absolutely no proof of that. be as paranoid as you want though, that seems to be a common gun owner refrain. All people? No. A couple hundred politicians, yes. ---
**Author:** ![ed\_anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbce88/32.png) [@ed\_anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ed_anger)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 8:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-need-a-gun/646873/195 "2013-01-13T20:49:41Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > All people? No. A couple hundred politicians, yes. ah, so this is an anti-government thing. good luck with that. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 8:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-need-a-gun/646873/196 "2013-01-13T20:53:33Z")
> [@ed\_anger](#): > > let me leave this here for everyone arguing that gun regulation is equal to a gun ban: If you quote someone–even an article–make sure that you use the QUOTE tags, (or, at least, quotation marks" to show that you are using someone else’s words. In addition, the text you quoted was about at the outer limit of the amount of text that could be quoted without exceeding fair use guidelines. [/Moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Zeriel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/58956e/32.png) [@Zeriel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zeriel)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 10:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-need-a-gun/646873/197 "2013-01-13T22:22:42Z")
> [@ed\_anger](#): > > beset on every side by imaginary enemies, good thing you have guns. You might not realize that I’m actually pretty much in favor of a fairly comprehensive suite of laws concerning licensing, mandatory training, and even registration. Unfortunately, due to the actions of anti-gun politicians in many metropolitan areas in this country and due to a large amount of anti-gun rhetoric expressly calling for bans, political feasibility is at an all-time low for any changes to law that might make confiscation easier. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 10:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-need-a-gun/646873/198 "2013-01-13T22:25:14Z")
> [@ed\_anger](#): > > ah, so this is an anti-government thing. good luck with that. No, it’s the anti-citizen thing they promote. ---
**Author:** ![ed\_anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbce88/32.png) [@ed\_anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ed_anger)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-need-a-gun/646873/199 "2013-01-13T22:28:57Z")
> [@Zeriel](#): > > You might not realize that I’m actually pretty much in favor of a fairly comprehensive suite of laws concerning licensing, mandatory training, and even registration. > > Unfortunately, due to the actions of anti-gun politicians in many metropolitan areas in this country and due to a large amount of anti-gun rhetoric expressly calling for bans, political feasibility is at an all-time low for any changes to law that might make confiscation easier. well then, we agree on a position. and i agree it would take a considerable amount of political capital to get anything passed. imho time spent better elsewhere until more people come around, but it’s still in the news. ---
**Author:** ![spifflog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c5a1d2/32.png) [@spifflog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/spifflog)\ **Post date:** [January 13, 2013, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-need-a-gun/646873/200 "2013-01-13T23:01:35Z")
> [@diggerwam](#): > > If a violent, truly random, act were ever to happen to me, I’d like to think I’d chalk it up to simply being my turn and that I could live another 2 lifetimes and it wouldn’t be my turn again. Really? REALLY? What if a violent, truly random act were ever to happen to your spouse and a gun could prevent it? Your elderly parent? Your child? Wonder what they’d say about your stance? If a gun could help protect me or a loved one from a violent, truly random act I’d be glad the 9mm was nearby. A few years ago my girl friend and I woke up in our bedroom at 2 am to find an intruder standing there. I chased the guy out of the house. In the 32 minutes it took for the call to the authorities to the arrival of the police, my girl friend went from a tree hugging gun hater to a committed gun owner. She hasn’t changed her mind sense. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-need-a-gun/646873.md?page=9) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-need-a-gun/646873.md?page=11)