# Why do you participate in Christmas if you don't believe in God **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 28, 2002, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-participate-in-christmas-if-you-dont-believe-in-god/145375 "2002-12-28T17:05:32Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![jjrt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/c77e96/32.png) [@jjrt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjrt)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 5:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-participate-in-christmas-if-you-dont-believe-in-god/145375/1 "2002-12-28T17:05:32Z")
Why do you participate in Christmas if you don’t believe in God? Since the birth of Jesus who is God’s son is the main theme at Christmas, I would think if you didn’t believe in God therefore you would not believe in his Son, so why do you buy and or receive presents at Christmas, if were something I didn’t believe in I wouldn’t participate in the activity. Do you participate because everyone else is doing the same thing? Do you participate because the family would talk about you and add to much pressure to your life? Or do you not participate at all? ---
**Author:** ![Triskadecamus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b19c9b/32.png) [@Triskadecamus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Triskadecamus)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 5:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-participate-in-christmas-if-you-dont-believe-in-god/145375/2 "2002-12-28T17:15:28Z")
Maybe they believe in Santa Claus. Tris ---
**Author:** ![Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/qadgop_the_mercotan/32/83_2.png) [@Qadgop\_the\_Mercotan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Qadgop_the_Mercotan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-participate-in-christmas-if-you-dont-believe-in-god/145375/3 "2002-12-28T17:22:10Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjrt \* > \*\* Since the birth of Jesus who is God’s son > \*\* cite? Besides, the true meaning of The time of the season commonly called Christmas these daysfor me is to celebrate Mithrae Invicto, or “The unconquered sun”. AFAIAC, anyway. So there. ---
**Author:** ![Charlie\_Tan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/charlie_tan/32/12582_2.png) [@Charlie\_Tan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Charlie_Tan)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 5:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-participate-in-christmas-if-you-dont-believe-in-god/145375/4 "2002-12-28T17:24:22Z")
Is this supposed to rile me? Since I participate in Christmas, while not being a Christian? 1. Here in Sweden it’s called _Jul_ as in Yule. It’s equal part Christianty and celebration of the Winter Solstice. It’s also a period when most people get time off work, have a few weeks off (especially good for employees this year) and have time to spend with friends and distant relatives. So why wouldn’t I have a good time? 2. I don _not_ celebrate the birth of Christ. My Christmas has no religious overtones whatsoever. 3. The gifts should be given on 12th night, not Christmas. It’s still done that way in Spain, though it’s changing to fit with the rest of Europe/US. So I might equally claim that X-mas gifts are given to celebrate the Solstice. YMMV ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-participate-in-christmas-if-you-dont-believe-in-god/145375/5 "2002-12-28T17:25:09Z")
Because there are two different Christmas holidays: the religious one, and the secular one. I celebrate the secular one, but not the religious one. ---
**Author:** ![gobear](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/8dc957/32.png) [@gobear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gobear)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-participate-in-christmas-if-you-dont-believe-in-god/145375/6 "2002-12-28T17:25:42Z")
> [@](#): > > Why do you participate in Christmas if you don’t believe in God? Since the birth of Jesus who is God’s son is the main theme at Christmas, I would think if you didn’t believe in God therefore you would not believe in his Son, so why do you buy and or receive presents at Christmas, if were something I didn’t believe in I wouldn’t participate in the activity. Pish tosh, my dear boy! A. Christ is not the “reason for the season.” The winter clelbration goes back at least as far as Ancient Rome, when devotees of the god [Mithras](http://www.templeofantinous.com/mithras.html) celebrated December 25 as the _Dies Sol Invictus_, the Day of the Unconquered Sun, which also coincided with the pagan [Saturnalia](http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/weekly/aa111699.htm) holiday, when Romans exchanged presents and decorated their homes with evergreens. The Christians didn’t adopt December 25 as the date for Jesus’s birth unti 336 A.D. in an attempt to coopt the preexisting pagan festivals. B. Jesus was most likely born in spring, bot winter. The gospels refer to shepherds in the fields, keeping watch over their flocks. This suggests that Jesus was born in [spring](http://www.new-life.net/chrtms10.htm), during the time when ewes usually give birth to their lambs. > [@](#): > > Israeli meteorologists tracked December weather patterns for many years and concluded that the climate in Israel has been essentially constant for at least the last 2,000 years. The Interpreter’s Dictionary of the Bible states that, “broadly speaking, weather phenomena and climatic conditions as pictured in the Bible correspond with conditions as observed today” (R.B.Y. Scott, Vol. 3, Abingdon Press, Nashville, 1962, p. 625). > > The temperature in the area of Bethlehem in December averages around 44 degrees Fahrenheit (7 degrees Celsius) but can drop to well below freezing, especially at night. Describing the weather there, Sara Ruhin, chief of the Israeli weather service, noted in a 1990 press release that the area has three months of frost: December with 29 F. [minus 1.6 C.]; January with 30 F. [minus 1.1 C.] and February with 32 F. [0 C.]. > > Snow is common for two or three days in Jerusalem and nearby Bethlehem in December and January. These were the winter months of increased precipitation in Christ’s time, when the roads became practically unusable and people stayed mostly indoors. > > This is important evidence to disprove a December date for Christ’s birth. Note that, at the time of Christ’s birth, the shepherds tended their flocks in the fields at night. “Now there were in the same country shepherds living out in the fields,” wrote one Gospel writer, “keeping watch over their flock by night” (Luke 2:8). A common practice of shepherds was keeping their flocks in the field from April to October, but in the cold and rainy winter months they took their flocks back home and sheltered them. C. Here’s [Cecil’s](http://www.straightdope.com/classics/a1_034b.html) view. Moroever, much of the trappings of the Christmas holiday, such as Christmas trees, are of pre-Christian origin. The question should be framed, Why do you celebrate Saturnalia if you’re not a pagan? ---
**Author:** ![Urban\_Ranger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/e9c0ed/32.png) [@Urban\_Ranger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Urban_Ranger)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-participate-in-christmas-if-you-dont-believe-in-god/145375/7 "2002-12-28T17:27:20Z")
**jjrt** , Why don’t you go check some of the older thread first? We have just gone through this. ---
**Author:** ![pkbites](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pkbites/32/204_2.png) [@pkbites](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pkbites)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-participate-in-christmas-if-you-dont-believe-in-god/145375/8 "2002-12-28T18:11:29Z")
I believe in God, I was raised Christian, and I don’t observe Christmas in the least. Never have, never will. Nor did my parents, nor do any of my siblings. What does that make us **jjrt**? Is Jesus going to send me to hell for not dragging a messy 'ol tree into my home just to celebrate his birthday which probably didn’t happen anywhere near December 25th? ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-participate-in-christmas-if-you-dont-believe-in-god/145375/9 "2002-12-28T18:56:28Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by jjrt \* > **…if were something I didn’t believe in I wouldn’t participate in the activity.** Halloween must suck for you, no? As ultrafilter stated, some of us (including you, I assume) celebrate the secular version. Wheeee! Days off from work, a gift exchange, and lots of great food. It’s a birthday++. ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-participate-in-christmas-if-you-dont-believe-in-god/145375/10 "2002-12-28T20:44:15Z")
As others have said, and this is the simple answer - We want to make sure the sun comes back one more year. Besides, we’ve got to keep consuming or the economy falls flat on its ass - tax cut or no tax cut. ---
**Author:** ![Azael](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a8b319/32.png) [@Azael](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Azael)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2002, 8:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-participate-in-christmas-if-you-dont-believe-in-god/145375/11 "2002-12-28T20:48:56Z")
When they make it so you have to go to Church before I can exchange presents then I won’t celebrate it. Until then I’m happy with the secular celebration that the religious aspect seems happy to ride the coat-tails of. ---
**Author:** ![tracer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tracer/32/20578_2.png) [@tracer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tracer)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-participate-in-christmas-if-you-dont-believe-in-god/145375/12 "2002-12-29T03:31:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by DMC \* > \*\*Wheeee! Days off from work, a gift exchange, and lots of great food. It’s a birthday++. \*\* You do realize that, since you’re using the postfix ++ operator, the value of the expression “birthday++” will be the value of birthday **before** the ++ operator was applied, right? ---
**Author:** ![Kalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Kalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalt)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-participate-in-christmas-if-you-dont-believe-in-god/145375/13 "2002-12-29T04:40:28Z")
so now I have to believe in god to partake in consumerism? Tiz a sad day, indeed. ---
**Author:** ![ultrafilter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/3d9bf3/32.png) [@ultrafilter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ultrafilter)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 4:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-participate-in-christmas-if-you-dont-believe-in-god/145375/14 "2002-12-29T04:49:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Kalt \* > \*\*so now I have to believe in god to partake in consumerism? Tiz a sad day, indeed. \*\* This reminds me of a scene in _Brazil_, where are a group is running around in a mall protesting something. Their logo? A ‘$’ on a cross, under the name “Consumers for Christ”. ---
**Author:** ![kniz](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/c37758/32.png) [@kniz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kniz)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 4:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-participate-in-christmas-if-you-dont-believe-in-god/145375/15 "2002-12-29T04:53:53Z")
To celebrate the winter solace, of course. I hate to point this out, but Jews believe in God and don’t celebrate Christmas. Same for Muslims and many other religions, including the Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Spiritus\_Mundi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c68b51/32.png) [@Spiritus\_Mundi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spiritus_Mundi)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-participate-in-christmas-if-you-dont-believe-in-god/145375/16 "2002-12-29T04:55:14Z")
I celebrate Christmas because I think it is a good thing to express love for your fellow man, share moments of celebration with friends and family, and exchange cool stuff with people you care about. It doesn’t bother me that some of my family add additional religious overtones ot the occassions. As far as I know, it does not bother them that I do not (though my Aunt the minister is troubled that I remain apart from what she feels as a beutifull fellowship). That okay by you? ---
**Author:** ![DMC](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dmc/32/18049_2.png) [@DMC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DMC)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 4:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-participate-in-christmas-if-you-dont-believe-in-god/145375/17 "2002-12-29T04:55:34Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by tracer \* > \*\*You do realize that, since you’re using the postfix ++ operator, the value of the expression “birthday++” will be the value of birthday **before** the ++ operator was applied, right? \*\* ```auto birthday++ cout << birthday ``` Better? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Kalt](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Kalt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalt)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 5:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-participate-in-christmas-if-you-dont-believe-in-god/145375/18 "2002-12-29T05:15:04Z")
ultrafilter: heheh good call, i forgot about that completely. I love that movie 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![pepperlandgirl](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f17d59/32.png) [@pepperlandgirl](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pepperlandgirl)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 5:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-participate-in-christmas-if-you-dont-believe-in-god/145375/19 "2002-12-29T05:18:05Z")
> [@](#): > > I hate to point this out, but Jews believe in God and don’t celebrate Christmas. Same for Muslims and many other religions, including the Mormons, Jehovah Witnesses, etc. Whoa, whoa, whoa. The Mormons certainly celebrate Christmas. I was in the Christmas Pageant every year. (One year I was actually Mary!) Why do I celebrate Christmas? Because if I don’t, nobody will buy me my Cardboard Spike, or my Spike calendar, or my CD-Rs, or…well, you get the point. ---
**Author:** ![MEBuckner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mebuckner/32/2896_2.png) [@MEBuckner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MEBuckner)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2002, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-participate-in-christmas-if-you-dont-believe-in-god/145375/20 "2002-12-29T05:28:26Z")
Well, **jjrt** , I hope you’re happy when the Supreme Court declares that it’s unconstitutional for Christmas to be a Federal Holiday, and it’s your fault. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-participate-in-christmas-if-you-dont-believe-in-god/145375.md?page=2)