I think maybe I’m the one being trolled.
Another board I know allows moderators or (senior) members to rate other posters. Posters can get good points as well as bad points. That ought to make it easier to identify what most people consider trolls.
I think there’s a huge difference between being a troll and being an asshole. Being an asshole doesn’t always equal being a troll.
There are a few on this board I suspect are trolls (maybe two or three). This is not because I disagree with anything they say. One of the biggest things I dislike is the fact that people say “just because you don’t like what they say or disagree with them doesn’t make them a troll” because I often don’t even care about what some people say–the fact that they are making certain topics or posts just to get a rise out of others or get reactions is the definition of troll.
So I guess what I’m saying is that, yeah, I agree there are some people who are trying to troll and I agree it’s not good to feed them, but some people are more assholes then trolls.
DTC is an asshole. Small British Shop Owner was a troll.
Shodan is an asshole. 2.5 inches of fun was a troll.
Der Trihs is an asshole. TLDR was a troll.
See the difference?
The assholes may be assholes all of the time or some of the time*, but at least they’re OUR assholes. The trolls, on the other hand, have no place here.
*Just for the record, I actually don’t think that Shodan, DTC, or Der Trihs are assholes, but I needed examples and since MOST people seem to think they’re the most asshole-ish, I used them
Yeah, the difference is the trolls are faking being assholes. I’d rather ban the actual assholes!
Thank you. I agree. I’m perfectly willing to accept that sometimes people think I’m being an asshole. I’ve never intentionally trolled. I say what I really think.
I’ve noticed that some people view trolling as a binary state. Either you are one or you aren’t. Others see it as something you can engage in once in a while. So what one might term jerking your chain, another would deem trolling. I wonder if you see it from the former and Discordia sees it as the latter.
I wasn’t trying to say that society at large was right. My point was that the OP was using the fact that most of the other posters here agreed, so that made the person they’re disagreeing with a troll. So I pointed out that having lots of people agree with you doesn’t mean the other person is wrong.
How can you know that it’s not the reader who is doing all those things?
If someone shows blatant dishonesty of their debate tactics, why couldn’t the opponent point this out?
Not really, since I’m having a difficult time imagining the scenarios you’re discussing above. You seem so sure that everyone agrees when this happens, but I’d have to see a situation to see if I agree or even know what you’re talking about.
Well, it’s specifically against the rules in Great Debates.
Yep. I think pretty much all posters, or at least the ones who post in GD and the like, have trolled at some point.
I can only go on my own experience here, but again, since it seems that there are a whole buttload of posters over several different threads, all with nothing in common, that this seems to be happening to, I have a hard time ascribing nefarious motives to the entire group. It seems much more simple that it’s the one person they’re throwing their hands up over.
Also, many have pointed this out to their “opponent” to no avail. There’s evasion, lies and downright disengenuousness. But perhaps it really is everyone else instead of the one person it appears is causing havoc. Just my observation.
Well, considering there’s been what, four or five people (plus the OP) who apparently this has happened to recently, I think I’d start from there. I suppose if that doesn’t help, I’d go looking myself (say, by clicking on “posts by the users” of members in this thread who feel they’ve been involved in that sort of thing) if folks (like the OP) didn’t wish to call anyone out specifically for some reason. Of course, that’s just what I’d do. Your mileage may vary.
I am 100% behind the OP. Indeed, I actually posted a similar “DNFTT” thread not long ago. (I made the mistake of mentioning Shodan, which DSeid has done well not to.)
The idea is not to identify who is a troll and who is not. Those people will do what they do. But instead, the rest of us can think twice when responding to certain posts/posters.
Too often, people will sidetrack what could have been a good debate by spending two pages arguing some semantic nonsense or other irrelevancy, when they could have just ignored it after one or two posts. Sometimes they’re arguing against truly ignorant people. Great! But more often, it is against the same handful of asshole/trolls (trollholes?). They start with their normal asshole routine, but when their position has been shredded, they fall right back on making shit up like trolls, until nobody remembers what the thread was about. And the worst part … the part we can all correct … is that everybody still entertains them at it, time after time.
It’s tragically hilarious on a board which prides itself on its intelligence. You’ll get somebody providing dozens of legal cites and diagrams and charts and so on to defend Bill Clinton’s blowjob in an epic thread about global warming.
Obligatory XKCD link added. Shame on you for not including it to begin with!
Is this where you tell us how you had been lurking for years reading GD? Because I think your theory is basically bullshit and most posters, even regular GD posters have not trolled even at some point.
I suppose I can’t really speak for anyone else, but I think the overriding factors in which posters feed the trolls are that there’s this convenient little field in which to type, a button called “Post Reply” and the fact that this is a message board on the Internet.
Shit, you might as well ask us to stop posting polls wondering which Partridge Family characters we are.
You don’t seem to have learned from the mistake, though.
Regards,
Shodan
DSeid: There seems to be an assumption inherent in your OP–that most of the regular posters have a pretty good idea who the trollish people are.
Baloney. I have no clue.
Do you hang out in GD a lot? I don’t. But it seems to me that a lot of the types of discussions that include “willful ignorance” and things like that happen in GD.
So if a GD denizen ends up embroiled in a Pit thread, how would I know that he’s a slippery eel of a poster who regularly engages in misdirection, straw-man arguments, and intellectual dishonesty?
Plus, even if the person demonstrates trollish behavior in the Pit thread, those of us who aren’t necessarily attuned to that type of argument might not even notice.
Besides, some trolls are fun. Jack Dean Tyler was fun. Wildest Bill was fun. I thought TLDR was fun, too. We might as well have some fun talking with them before their inevitable banning. With regard to the less-fun trolls–I personally don’t find endless semantic arguments of any type to be enjoyable, but some people do. That’s their prerogative.
I hear what you’re saying about how sometimes threads get hijacked or sidetracked, and how annoying that can be, but I think there are better ways to deal with it than berating all of us for ordinary message board behavior.
I think a relatively small number of people are trolling, and for each of those people, there are a few who either don’t get it or who just respond to the bait, with the end result looking like all trolls get fed by a lot of people. Whenever I notice somebody trolling, my internal editor turns it into a humor post (on account of the fact that actually trolling will get you banned, but appearing to troll when in fact you’re just being silly (or stupid) won’t). The trolling that I don’t realize is trolling? Well, who cares?
As somebody put it on my son’s WoW guild forum, “I wasn’t trolling; I was just posting deliberately provocative statements in order to incite an emotional response.”
I think I could be rightly accused of sidetracking threads on semantic arguments, but I don’t do it with the intent to sidetrack the thread. Rather, I comment on a side semantic issue when I think it’s actually more important than whatever the OP thought his ain point was. If people respond to me and the thread gets sidetracked, that’s out of my control. It arguably makes the thread better if others agree that I picked the better issue to discuss.
Well I’m having trouble with this hypothetical stuff so I am going to have to drop some names. I think a lot of people that have been labeled as ‘‘trolls’’ are really just irritating and have unpopular opinions. It’s rare that I’ve seen a post (or collection of posts) and thought, ‘‘That guy’s definitely a troll.’’ Of course, I’m more trusting than others-- 2.5 Inches of Fun had me going right up until his inevitable banning.
Dio, for example, gets accused of trolling an awful lot, but really he’s just very blunt regardless of whether his opinion is popular or unpopular. His delivery and debate style is incredibly consistent, which is basically what people get so up in arms about.
Der Trihs gets accused of trolling a lot too, but really he’s just insanely passionate about atheism to the point that he doesn’t mind offending others.
A lot of right-wingers get accused of being trolls by nature of them having opinions that significantly differ from mainstream Dope perspective. Take Jesse Leigh–annoying as fuck in that thread about The Most Important Person In History but pretty obviously sincere and in the very least respectful about her ideas. I think it’s only a matter of time before someone starts calling her a troll.
Everyone accused ivan astikov of trolling when he first arrived but he seems to have settled in pretty well. I think he was just learning the ropes. (FWIW, ivan, I liked you from the beginning. You seem very good-natured.)
A true troll would have to be someone who deliberately posts certain things to get a rise out of people and stir up shit on the boards. And I think some of our more aggressive posters do this deliberately from time to time, but I’d be hard pressed to think of any who makes it their life mission.
The word ‘troll’ is so over-used these days it has lost all significant meaning. What used to be a term for people who held insincere and/or inflammatory opinions for the purpose of fooling or irritating others is now used for ‘the guy that I disagree with’, or ‘the poster that offended my favourite band’. It almost makes me wince whenever I see it thrown out, justified or not.