# Why do you prefer a stick-shift over an automatic transmission? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 28, 2020, 9:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-prefer-a-stick-shift-over-an-automatic-transmission/919279 "2020-08-28T21:59:02Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![filmore](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/7993a0/32.png) [@filmore](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/filmore)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-prefer-a-stick-shift-over-an-automatic-transmission/919279/161 "2020-09-01T21:22:33Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > So, it might read 3\>5. There’s nothing nagging or annoying about it, unless you drive staring at your dashboard, and even then, I’m not entirely sure why it would be annoying. I think it would be mildly annoying to get driving suggestions from my car. It’s fine for the car to give current status and warning indicators, but I don’t want driving advice. This is probably even more true for people who drive manuals. If I’m driving in a certain gear, I’m doing it for a reason and I don’t need the car telling me to change gears. It’s kind of like having the car be a backseat driver. ---
**Author:** ![WildaBeast](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wildabeast/32/6_2.png) [@WildaBeast](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WildaBeast)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 9:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-prefer-a-stick-shift-over-an-automatic-transmission/919279/162 "2020-09-01T21:30:28Z")
I’ve gotten good at just tuning it out, but YMMV (An apt expression here, since I’m almost certain the suggestions are trying to maximize your fuel economy). The concept isn’t entirely new; my old 1995 Saturn had an “upshift” light, represented by an orange arrow pointing up that lit when it thought you should be in a higher gear. ---
**Author:** ![robby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/robby/32/11048_2.png) [@robby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/robby)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-prefer-a-stick-shift-over-an-automatic-transmission/919279/163 "2020-09-01T22:13:01Z")
> [@WildaBeast](#): > > The concept isn’t entirely new; my old 1995 Saturn had an “upshift” light, represented by an orange arrow pointing up that lit when it thought you should be in a higher gear. I’m pretty sure my parents’ 1985 Audi had that as well. I remember because I thought it was annoying. Unless I was in the highest gear, it always wanted me in a higher gear than I was in. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-prefer-a-stick-shift-over-an-automatic-transmission/919279/164 "2020-09-01T23:05:40Z")
Seriously, it’s not a big fucking deal. I mean, do you really look at the dash to see what gear you’re in? No, of course you don’t. You know what gear you’re in because that’s why you’re driving a stick. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2020, 11:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-prefer-a-stick-shift-over-an-automatic-transmission/919279/165 "2020-09-01T23:08:03Z")
And, usually, that was right if you’re driving for fuel economy. If you just want to be in a twitchy gear, then ignore it. Seriously? Who the hell is looking at their tach while they’re driving? I was driving today and had to figure out where the hell my car reported this information, because I wasn’t completely sure. (2014 Mazda 3.) ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 12:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-prefer-a-stick-shift-over-an-automatic-transmission/919279/166 "2020-09-02T00:38:52Z")
> [@Tired\_and\_Cranky](#): > > To the person driving the car, a clutch failure is a transmission failure. It stops the car from moving and it costs a lot to fix. There is little difference to the user between that and a transmission failure. Well, it doesn’t really keep the car from moving, it just makes it a more involved procedure. My dad drove a Bug with a dead clutch from east Dallas home to the mid-cities of DFW in rush hour. He’d drag it to a start with the starter, after the engine fired he’d shift without a clutch using rev matching. > [@WildaBeast](#): > > I’ve gotten good at just tuning it out, but YMMV (An apt expression here, since I’m almost certain the suggestions are trying to maximize your fuel economy). The concept isn’t entirely new; my old 1995 Saturn had an “upshift” light, represented by an orange arrow pointing up that lit when it thought you should be in a higher gear. Hehehe, I’ve always thought of them as the “I know when to shift better than you do!” light. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-prefer-a-stick-shift-over-an-automatic-transmission/919279/167 "2020-09-02T02:12:48Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Hehehe, I’ve always thought of them as the “I know when to shift better than you do!” light. It was only about getting a better fuel economy rating. It never represented the best driving choice, just the best choice for getting a higher number on the EPA test. Honestly, I don’t think the manufacturers ever expected people to pay attention to it. > The reason for this was, for a time [EPA](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Environmental_Protection_Agency) [fuel economy](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy_in_automobiles) testing rules stipulated that shift lights would be followed on vehicles so equipped- thus, they were calibrated for optimum fuel mileage on the EPA test cycle. > **[Shift light](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shift_light)** > > A shift light is a warning lamp fitted to vehicles in order to indicate to the driver that maximum revolutions per minute (r/min) has almost been reached. Ideally a shift lamp will illuminate at the engine speed beyond that which delivers the maximum power, measured in for example kilowatt (kW) or brake horsepower (BHP), such that the power before and after shifting is the same. Accelerating the engine beyond this point is not conducive to ideal acceleration. In use a shift light allows the drive... ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 3:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-prefer-a-stick-shift-over-an-automatic-transmission/919279/168 "2020-09-02T03:34:41Z")
> [@Telemark](#): > > It was only about getting a better fuel economy rating. It never represented the best driving choice, just the best choice for getting a higher number on the EPA test. Honestly, I don’t think the manufacturers ever expected people to pay attention to it. Yeah, I know they basically were a “upshift for MPG” light. I drove a couple of cars that had them. Even though the main selling point of manual transmission cars at the time was the better MPG they’re annoying. I notice lights when they alert on the dash, and one that was super non-critical and repeatedly lighting up was distracting. Unlike the other kind of shift alert that lights or buzzes to tell you “This engine does not get rougher the higher you rev it, shift you dumbass.” Those save me very expensive bills, so I appreciate them. ---
**Author:** ![Machine\_Elf](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/82dd89/32.png) [@Machine\_Elf](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Machine_Elf)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-prefer-a-stick-shift-over-an-automatic-transmission/919279/169 "2020-09-02T10:10:40Z")
> [@scabpicker](#): > > Well, it doesn’t really keep the car from moving, it just makes it a more involved procedure. My dad drove a Bug with a dead clutch from east Dallas home to the mid-cities of DFW in rush hour. He’d drag it to a start with the starter, after the engine fired he’d shift without a clutch using rev matching. That’s a failure of the clutch cable. I assumed Tired\_and\_Cranky was talking about a clutch disc that wears out or disintegrates, preventing transmission of mechanical power to the wheels. ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 12:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-prefer-a-stick-shift-over-an-automatic-transmission/919279/170 "2020-09-02T12:33:34Z")
Sure, and I’m waiting for toilet bowls with tanks by the ceiling and a pull chain to become all the rage again. ---
**Author:** ![scabpicker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/scabpicker/32/8268_2.png) [@scabpicker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/scabpicker)\ **Post date:** [September 2, 2020, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-prefer-a-stick-shift-over-an-automatic-transmission/919279/171 "2020-09-02T13:49:14Z")
> [@Machine\_Elf](#): > > That’s a failure of the clutch cable. I assumed Tired\_and\_Cranky was talking about a clutch disc that wears out or disintegrates, preventing transmission of mechanical power to the wheels. Nah, the cable was fine, the clutch just wouldn’t disengage. I don’t remember which part actually failed, but it required a clutch job to get it operational again. ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 2:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-prefer-a-stick-shift-over-an-automatic-transmission/919279/172 "2020-09-03T02:28:58Z")
Thanks, folks! This thread inspired me to search carsdotcom/autotrader/craigslist/facebook m’place, anywhere I can filter by “Transmission: Manual”. And to waste even more time checking out good car sites… > **[Every New Car You Can Still Buy with a Manual Transmission](https://www.caranddriver.com/features/g20734564/manual-transmission-cars/)** > > In case you're in the market for a new car with a stick shift, we salute you. Here's what you have to choose from. [https://www.autotrader.com/car-tips/why-you-should-consider-a-manual-transmission-225312](https://www.autotrader.com/car-tips/why-you-should-consider-a-manual-transmission-225312) Even sites with cars I can’t afford, like… > **[Question of the Week: What's Your Favorite Hot Hatch of All Time?](https://bringatrailer.com/2020/09/02/question-of-the-week-whats-your-favorite-hot-hatch-of-all-time/)** > > Learn more about Question of the Week: What’s Your Favorite Hot Hatch of All Time? on Bring a Trailer, the home of the best vintage and classic cars online. And, of course, Jalopnik, just because it’s so much fun, and they love sticks: > **[Jalopnik](https://jalopnik.com/)** > > Drive free or die. ---
**Author:** ![DrDeth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/b487fb/32.png) [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)\ **Post date:** [September 3, 2020, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-prefer-a-stick-shift-over-an-automatic-transmission/919279/173 "2020-09-03T19:25:55Z")
My old saturn, which I gave to my wife, has this. No big deal. It does sometimes help to remind you to shift into 5th on the freeway, ---
**Author:** ![Melbourne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b5e925/32.png) [@Melbourne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Melbourne)\ **Post date:** [September 4, 2020, 11:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-prefer-a-stick-shift-over-an-automatic-transmission/919279/174 "2020-09-04T23:59:58Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > Sure, and I’m waiting for toilet bowls with tanks by the ceiling and a pull chain to become all the rage again. I’ve used ‘automatic flush’ toilets that flush when you stand up, and I get the attraction for some public toilets, but I don’t particularly want one in my own home. What have you got? ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-prefer-a-stick-shift-over-an-automatic-transmission/919279/175 "2020-09-05T02:51:36Z")
I drive a manual because I like the extra control I get. I also like having more to do in the driving process and it makes me feel more connected to the road. I actually even prefer a manual car in heavy stop start traffic except that I worry about the wear on the clutch. Whenever I talk about buying a new car, I decide it will probably be an automatic, partly because autos tend to come with a better feature set, and partly because I convince myself that I don’t like driving a manual in heavy traffic. But then I will drive an automatic for some reason, generally I’m given one as a hire car, and I remember all of the things I don’t like about them. Here is a list of things that I personally like about driving a manual. I freely accept that some of it may be that I’m not very good at driving an automatic because I very rarely do it. 1. I have much finer control over the car’s very slow speeds by carefully modulating the clutch (no accelerator use, just clutch, the other foot sits on the floor.) I find I can be a lot smoother in heavy traffic doing this. 2. I have had issues when trying to _ease_ at very low speed over a bump in an automatic (picture a tight uphill parking space with a curb to get over at the entrance). I find it difficult to get the very precise speed control to just creep over the bump. In the auto I find the car doesn’t get over the bump until I give it a certain amount of throttle, then it jumps over. In a manual I can go over at any speed I like by carefully modulating the clutch and accelerator. 3. I like playing games with myself when driving, like “can I drive from here to there without using the brakes?” that sort of thing. This requires downshifting and coasting in ways that you can’t really do in an automatic (see below for why I don’t like manually shifting an auto.) 4. I like to be in the gear I want, when I want. I want to be shifted down _before_ the hill, not after it, I want to be shifted down _before_ I accelerate out of the corner, not a half second after. Yes I can use the manual shift selector in an automatic, but it still has lag, I’m not _connected_ to the transmission, I don’t know precisely when I will have the power available. When I shift in an auto, I feel like the gear change lags behind my actions, and ironically, it then really does feel like needless busywork. To me, the one thing worse than an automatic transmission is trying to use the manual mode on an automatic transmission. 5. Finally, I find that automatics have some lag when starting from a standstill. It’s like the first little bit of accelerator movement does nothing and then you sort of lurch away in a manner that manuals don’t do when driven well. All that said, my preference for a manual is not super strong, and I am still quite likely to get an auto for my next car _if_ other features outweigh the lack of manual transmission. A reversing camera, good cruise control, good cargo capacity, automatic windshield wipers, automatic lights, good navigation system, good integration with my phone, if I can’t have that stuff with a manual, then I will take the auto. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 3:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-prefer-a-stick-shift-over-an-automatic-transmission/919279/176 "2020-09-05T03:02:01Z")
Dead battery? No problem! ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-prefer-a-stick-shift-over-an-automatic-transmission/919279/177 "2020-09-05T03:39:09Z")
> [@Richard\_Pearse](#): > > All that said, my preference for a manual is not super strong, and I am still quite likely to get an auto for my next car _if_ other features outweigh the lack of manual transmission. What you really want is an electric. There is of course zero lag at all times, and the car is never behind you. And you get the “game” effect as well: though here it’s “can I engage the regeneration at juuuust the right rate so that I come to a stop at the next light?”. Regeneration gives an excellent engine braking feel, but even better because it works at all speeds (in a manual, there’s almost no engine braking in the highway gears). ---
**Author:** ![Richard\_Pearse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/richard_pearse/32/13144_2.png) [@Richard\_Pearse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Richard_Pearse)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 4:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-prefer-a-stick-shift-over-an-automatic-transmission/919279/178 "2020-09-05T04:31:34Z")
Yes, you are probably right. Can they go 900 km between charging / fuelling? ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Strangelove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.strangelove/32/6613_2.png) [@Dr.Strangelove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Strangelove)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-prefer-a-stick-shift-over-an-automatic-transmission/919279/179 "2020-09-05T04:37:20Z")
No, you’ll have to stop once or twice for ~30 min. For more modest distances though you never have to stop at all since you charge at home. It’s an overall win for the vast majority of drivers. ---
**Author:** ![Terwilliger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a587f6/32.png) [@Terwilliger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terwilliger)\ **Post date:** [September 5, 2020, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-prefer-a-stick-shift-over-an-automatic-transmission/919279/180 "2020-09-05T06:43:05Z")
Manual transmissions used to be cheaper, more reliable and more fun. They are still more fun. But automatic transmissions have come a long way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-prefer-a-stick-shift-over-an-automatic-transmission/919279.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-do-you-prefer-a-stick-shift-over-an-automatic-transmission/919279.md?page=10)