My main reasons for driving a stick (which I mentioned in my post 6 years ago in this thread) was for better control in the snow, better gas mileage, and lower cost. None of those reasons still apply. When I wrote that post I had a Subaru with a CVT transmission. Now I drive an EV with one pedal driving and I don’t see any reason to go back.
I generally would, mostly because all of those things are extra weight that I’m not interested in using. My first vehicles had none of those things, and I got by just fine.
If I could get things piecemeal, I’d probably get ABS. I’d also add power brakes if the car was pretty heavy. But power steering and power brakes aren’t necessary in a light enough vehicle. Even in a heavy vehicle power steering is unnecessary as long as you get the vehicle moving before you try to steer.
I’m still kind of personally offended by the broad social trend of power windows. I have two working arms, so they’re absolutely unnecessary for me. I suppose the consolation there is that they at least make them reliable enough now that they’re not the first fucking thing to break on the vehicle.
What’s light enough I wonder? I took my driving test in a 1978 Volvo sedan - executing a three-point turn was like a combination of manually steering a boat while opening and closing a stiff steering-wheel-sized gate valve. Fuck that noise.
New cars are monumentally better and safer than those old “classic” death traps from the 20th century. It’s not even remotely close. There’s also a some very good reasons why fragile, cumbersome vinyl records went out of style.
I’m not one to gloat about the stick-shift dying - like I’ve said I drove a couple for about a decade. But I do find it’s slow (or not-so-slow) death interesting.
My 1968 Datsun topless Fairlady* had a 5-speed manual transmission, except it wouldn’t stay in 2nd, and a hydraulic clutch actuator that leaked worse than the brake cylinders, so I had to double-clutch to shift, and jump 1-3, 4, 5 - but boy was it a blast to drive.
*[ $300 ‘convertible’ except the top had gone missing long before I bought it.]
When you’re used to driving with a stick, you don’t have to think about it. The movements come automatically (sorry).
I’m still enjoying driving my manual transmission couple. It should have plenty of miles left. When and if it comes time for a replacement, it’s debatable whether I’ll go to the trouble of getting a manual replacement.
I started out on a '65 Ford F100. It had neither of them, and was easy to steer as long as it was moving. It was a stripper (no options at all, not even a radio), so it was probably the 3100 lb base weight. But ideally the weight of a car without power steering and brakes would be closer to 2000 lbs, such as a Porsche 914 or VW Beetle.
The key here in one of the heavier vehicles is you want to turn while moving. Any movement at all is fine, even half a mile an hour makes non-power steering easy. Once you come to a complete stop, it’s a pain.
I lost the power steering in my F350 crew-cab once. I decided not to fix it, just for the extra forearm training, but eventually broke down and repaired it. Even with power steering, that beast was a hassle to parallel-park. Without it, it was ridiculous.
Power steering depends not only on weight but on weight distribution and, fairly importantly, tire. I’ve driven older cars from the '80s with 185 series econo-tires and you don’t even notice the lack of power steering. On my Miata with a factory non-powered rack and about 2400 lbs sans driver, all-seasons were manageable (as long as you’re moving, as you say) but on 9" racing slicks I sometimes felt that I was going to break my steering column.
Cars have gotten heavier but tires have also gotten wider and stickier, making power steering a bigger deal. The suspension geometry can also affect the scrub radius, which can make turning the front tires harder, but I don’t know if that’s a factor.
Unfortunately, everything’s a tradeoff.
I’ve owned manuals and autos. I really don’t care. But agree that everyone should be able to drive a manual. Everyone should also be able to cook a meal, ride a bike, and people will disagree with me here - handle a firearm safely.
I disagree that driving should be an ‘experiance’. I’ve had some experiances that I would rather forget.
Ooof, the ratio of a power rack without assist is brutal. I’ve driven more than one car that had lost power assist, I’d never do it willingly any longer than necessary to get it where I could fix it.
Heheh, yeah. I am talking DOT approved street tires only.
Heh. When I was 10 years old we had an old tractor that had a bucket on it that was way too big. Way to heavy. Even empty, If you wanted to turn the steeting/tires while stopped, you had to drop the bucket.
In hindshight, it was probably dangerous as all get out.
Sure, but there’s still more stuff you have to do. I wonder if, everything else being equal, a stick-shift car takes slightly more time and distance to come to an emergency stop than an automatic. Especially since, in conditions where I know I may have to stop quickly, I tend to drive with my left foot positioned just over the brake pedal. You can’t do that with a traditional manual. Habitually your left foot would stomp on the clutch while your right moves from the accelerator to the brake.
Wonder no more. The automatic transmission is almost assuredly heavier than the manual, and it takes more time/distance to stop a heavier car. Plus, you can left foot brake in a manual just fine. You don’t use the clutch to stop a car, you don’t need to use it to put it in neutral, and technically you don’t need it to downshift.
So, all other things being equal, the manual is generally going to stop a smidge faster/shorter.
We watch the Amazing race, and since we both know how to drive a stick (due to a bad knee, I dont use it much anymore), we find it hilarious when the American contestants are given the keys to a bunch of foreign rental cars- with Manual transmissions.
Car & Driver seems to really like stick shifts in cars.
Yeah we found a used Volvo C30 ( I love those cars) R Type even, and got a huge deal on it for just that reason.
It’s not about what you (theoretically) might be able to do, it’s all about what you habitually do without thinking, what pilots call “muscle memory”.
A good example is a story I heard about a friend, long accustomed to a stick shift, renting an automatic that he was obviously not used to. Coming up to a stop light, his first instinct – “muscle memory” – was to depress the clutch. Since there was no clutch, only a wide brake pedal, he stomped on the brake and the car started rapidly braking. The second automatic instinct is that if something unexpected is happening, you need to stop the car, so he wound up with both feet on the brake!
As for the weight difference with an automatic, depending on the car, the automatic might be as little as 30 lbs heavier, equivalent to a bag of groceries. Even if it’s two or three times as much, it’s not likely to be much of a factor in stopping distance compared to other variables.
That’s a really bad habit. It can often lead to you accidentally putting a slight amount of pressure on your brake pedal without realizing it, causing you to not only wear out your brakes, but you can also cause them to overheat, potentially boiling your brake fluid and causing you to lose all braking power.
Also, in an emergency, a “panic” response can cause you to stomp on both the gas and the brake simultaneously, making an emergency stop even less safe.
By coincidence, I had to slam on the brakes on my F350 manual pickup truck today. I instinctively stomped on the clutch and brake VERY quickly. I don’t think I would have stomped on the brake any faster in an automatic car.
The sheer weight of an F350 makes it slower to stop than say my automatic Buick, but that’s a matter of weight and simple physics, not a matter of transmission type.
Another potential safety factor is that if you are driving a stick, you are more aware of the road conditions. You pay more attention to what the road is doing because you have to adjust and shift yourself. You can’t just zone out and let the car figure it all out.
If you want to be a safer driver, learn to ride a motorcycle. The motorcycle itself is a lot more dangerous (cars have crumple zones in an accident, on a motorcycle YOU are the crumple zone), but riding a motorcycle teaches you to be MUCH more aware of your surroundings, even when you’re in a car and not on a bike.
FWIW, I have never considered safety to be a factor when choosing manual or automatic.
I have never had that happen.
One tiny benefit , on a manual, if the brakes get too hot or fail going downhill, it is very easy to downshift. But in 50 years I only had to do that once.
I hear this a lot. But no one should ever “ride” the brake pedal and I certainly don’t. I just keep my left foot – my usual “braking foot” – conveniently positioned for action, and I only do that in cases where conditions warrant, such as stop-and-go traffic where some inattentive jerk might come to a screeching halt because he didn’t realize the car in front of him was slowing down.
I may have habits that some may consider sub-optimal, but I can also claim a 50-year (literally) accident-free driving record.
I rode a Honda CX500 for many years and still have an “M” class (motorcycle) endorsement on my license. I think I’ve been fairly well schooled in situational awareness. I think I’ve even told the story before where I narrowly avoided several potential accidents at once when some asshole in a delivery van was speeding recklessly, weaving between traffic lanes, and I decided to slow down and fall back a little. Moments later, he lost control, flipped over, and crashed into a utility pole, causing live wires to come crashing down onto the street, sparks flying!
I just move my right foot over the brake pedal.
Most people do. @wolfpup’s method is definitely not recommended by most folks.