# Why does a lieutenant general outrank a major general, if a lieutenant is subordinate to a major? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 21, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-a-lieutenant-general-outrank-a-major-general-if-a-lieutenant-is-subordinate-to-a-major/561470 "2010-11-21T20:33:03Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 11\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 8:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-a-lieutenant-general-outrank-a-major-general-if-a-lieutenant-is-subordinate-to-a-major/561470/1 "2010-11-21T20:33:03Z")
I know this is a silly little question, but it’s bothered me since the day I learned the terms. Given the relative ranking in the military of lieutenant and major (with major, of course, being superior), why is it that a lieutenant general outranks a major general? Was there a particular reason this counterintuitive (to me) sequence developed? Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![jonesj2205](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecc23a/32.png) [@jonesj2205](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jonesj2205)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-a-lieutenant-general-outrank-a-major-general-if-a-lieutenant-is-subordinate-to-a-major/561470/2 "2010-11-21T20:34:44Z")
You share that question with Bob from Berkeley, who asked Cecil: [Here.](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/796/why-does-a-lt-gen-outrank-a-maj-gen-but-a-maj-outranks-a-lt) ---
**Author:** ![Ravenman](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ravenman/32/2929_2.png) [@Ravenman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ravenman)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-a-lieutenant-general-outrank-a-major-general-if-a-lieutenant-is-subordinate-to-a-major/561470/3 "2010-11-21T20:36:42Z")
The 17th century New Model Army had the rank of sergeant-major general, which was shortened somewhere along the line to major general. ---
**Author:** ![KarlGauss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/karlgauss/32/3713_2.png) [@KarlGauss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KarlGauss)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2010, 8:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-a-lieutenant-general-outrank-a-major-general-if-a-lieutenant-is-subordinate-to-a-major/561470/4 "2010-11-21T20:45:34Z")
> [@jonesj2205](#): > > You share that question with Bob from Berkeley, who asked Cecil: > [Here.](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/796/why-does-a-lt-gen-outrank-a-maj-gen-but-a-maj-outranks-a-lt) Well, I’ll be . . . Thank you! ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 5:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-a-lieutenant-general-outrank-a-major-general-if-a-lieutenant-is-subordinate-to-a-major/561470/5 "2010-11-22T05:46:29Z")
Cecil’s reply is excellent, I’m sure, but there is a simpler summary: In Lieutenant General, lieutenant is an adjective modifying general. In Major General, general is (originally) an adjective modifying major. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 6:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-a-lieutenant-general-outrank-a-major-general-if-a-lieutenant-is-subordinate-to-a-major/561470/6 "2010-11-22T06:08:19Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Cecil’s reply is excellent, I’m sure, but there is a simpler summary: > > In Lieutenant General, lieutenant is an adjective modifying general. > In Major General, general is (originally) an adjective modifying major. Are you sure? It seems to me that in both lieutenant general and sergeant-major general, general was at least originally the adjective. They are the “general” version of the lieutenant and sergeant-major ranks. ---
**Author:** ![Enterprise](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/76d3ee/32.png) [@Enterprise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enterprise)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 8:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-a-lieutenant-general-outrank-a-major-general-if-a-lieutenant-is-subordinate-to-a-major/561470/7 "2010-11-22T08:33:36Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > Are you sure? It seems to me that in both lieutenant general and sergeant-major general, general was at least originally the adjective. They are the “general” version of the lieutenant and sergeant-major ranks. Agree with this: “general” was always an adjective modifying the preceding noun (after the French, or possibly Spanish fashion, I suppose). Thus from top to bottom, “captain-general,” “lieutenant-general,” “sergeant-major general” in which general indeed means “of all the individual parts, overall”. This is probably a left over from the time when individual captains recruited and supplied a feudal army with its troops. Since each of these individuals deserved the appelation captain, the officer above them all (and there was usually a fairly flat hierarchy, without the division/corps structure of modern armies) was the general captain, or, indeed, the captain-general. And below him, logically, were the lieutenant-general, and the sergeant-major general. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-a-lieutenant-general-outrank-a-major-general-if-a-lieutenant-is-subordinate-to-a-major/561470/8 "2010-11-22T08:42:22Z")
> [@Enterprise](#): > > And below him, logically, were the lieutenant-general, and the sergeant-major general. Which is not to minimize the latter’s role: the sergeant-major general is very well acquainted, too, with matters mathematical, and understands equations both the simple and quadratical. ---
**Author:** ![septimus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/septimus/32/410_2.png) [@septimus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/septimus)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-a-lieutenant-general-outrank-a-major-general-if-a-lieutenant-is-subordinate-to-a-major/561470/9 "2010-11-22T09:46:56Z")
> [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](#): > > Are you sure? It seems to me that in both lieutenant general and sergeant-major general, general was at least originally the adjective. They are the “general” version of the lieutenant and sergeant-major ranks. Sorry if I’m spreading disinformation. ☹ But I’m not sure. [This page](http://www.xenograg.com/101/excerpts/origins-of-european-army-ranks) treats “leiutenant whatever” as a stand-in for whatever. > [@](#): > > These were called placeholders, or, in the term derived from the French, lieutenants… > Finally, the command of the whole army was given to an officer who originally was called the general captain, or captain general, … He, too, had to have a lieutenant general to command for him, or at any rate to assist him, ---
**Author:** ![BMalion](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e274bd/32.png) [@BMalion](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BMalion)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 4:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-a-lieutenant-general-outrank-a-major-general-if-a-lieutenant-is-subordinate-to-a-major/561470/10 "2010-11-22T16:33:35Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Which is not to minimize the latter’s role: the sergeant-major general is very well acquainted, too, with matters mathematical, and understands equations both the simple and quadratical. And yet, is an orphan, poor fellow. ---
**Author:** ![Scuba\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/278dde/32.png) [@Scuba\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Scuba_Ben)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2010, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-a-lieutenant-general-outrank-a-major-general-if-a-lieutenant-is-subordinate-to-a-major/561470/11 "2010-11-22T17:32:33Z")
A lieutenant is a top aide to a captain. Both rely on a sergeant major for the grunt work. Similarly, a lieutenant general is a top aid to a general. Both rely on a major general for the high-level grunt work.