# Why does Aldebaran get so much stick? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 7, 2004, 4:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498 "2004-09-07T16:38:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Loopydude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e56c9b/32.png) [@Loopydude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Loopydude)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/41 "2004-09-08T03:00:17Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > Why he is so protected by the mods when lesser offenders are banned is a Mystery of the Boards that I have given up pondering. This question may be worthy of its own Pit thread. ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 3:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/42 "2004-09-08T03:26:23Z")
> [@Mehitabel](#): > > Why he is so protected by the mods when lesser offenders are banned is a Mystery of the Boards that I have given up pondering. He makes a nice warm up bag for the newbies perhaps? šŸ˜‰ ---
**Author:** ![Mehitabel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/8797f3/32.png) [@Mehitabel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mehitabel)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 3:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/43 "2004-09-08T03:39:56Z")
Heh. Yeah, I guess tangling with him, being stymied, and finally giving up is as good an initiation as the Board can offer. That, and flirting and saying hi to Opal. As for starting a thread, the only warning Iā€™ve received my whole time on the Board concerned Aldebaran, for speculating he was just a pimply teenager in some dreary cybercafe in Belgium. In GD. Whoops. Iā€™d rather not risk it, thanks. ---
**Author:** ![TeaElle](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/8491ac/32.png) [@TeaElle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TeaElle)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 5:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/44 "2004-09-08T05:58:31Z")
In three separate threads, I have asked **Aldebaran** direct questions relating to assertions heā€™s made, typically stereotyped generalizations about Americans, westerners or non-Muslims. In each of those threads, he has refused to answer those questions, either dodging the issue, replying with non-sequiturs or ignoring me outright. That dishonesty in the midst of what would otherwise be a fair and reasonable debate or discussion is why I find A to be an unwelcome blight. But now I simply pay no heed to his screeds. They bother me, but I donā€™t let them get me worked up, because it just isnā€™t worth it. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/45 "2004-09-08T10:21:01Z")
> [@Dead Badger](#): > > Muslims donā€™t owe us anything in terms of condemnation. Iā€™m not talking about debt. I didnā€™t ask for condemnation because Iā€™m Russian. Muslims ought to condemn such acts, not just because of the message it sends to the victims, but because of the message it sends to the terrorists. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 11:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/46 "2004-09-08T11:06:48Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > Muslims ought to condemn such acts, not just because of the message it sends to the victims, but because of the message it sends to the terrorists. Possibly, but with all this talk of ā€œoughtā€ and ā€œspeak out or youā€™re insaneā€, the rather heavy implication is that Muslims should speak out for your approval (something Iā€™m sure youā€™ll deny; nonetheless, the implication _is_ there, even if not intended). Youā€™re ducking my sole point, which is that demanding things of innocent people tends to go down badly. Especially if youā€™re demanding something so blatantly obvious as confirmation that they condemn murdering children. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 11:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/47 "2004-09-08T11:29:21Z")
The implication? The implication is stated in the premise, your bizarre speculation notwithstanding. Muslim terrorists recruit Muslims who do not think thereā€™s anything wrong with murder. No one who fails to condemn these acts is innocent. ā€œThe only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.ā€ ā€” Edmund Burke. And while it may be ā€œblatantly obviousā€, as you say, that these acts should be condemned, Aldebaran has decided not to condemn them. Take your gripes to him. If your sole point is that his feelings might be hurt, then fuck you both. ---
**Author:** ![Martiju](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e8c25b/32.png) [@Martiju](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martiju)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 12:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/48 "2004-09-08T12:37:39Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > If your sole point is that his feelings might be hurt, then fuck you both. With respect (to you and **Dead Badger** , if this is wrong) I think the point is that if you demand condemnation it rather leads to the assumption that there is a chance that the demandee might well not feel that the act is abhorrent to start with. So, some individuals from Group A kills 300+ people. If members of Group B then demand condemnation, they are suggesting, albeit implicitly, that there is potential that all members of Group A would not believe this to be a heinous act. As a member of Group A, I too would be offended by that. Why not just target your attacks on those specific individuals (or sub-group, if you like) of Group A rather than taint the whole lot with the implicit accusation? ---
**Author:** ![Aldebaran](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Aldebaran](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aldebaran)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/49 "2004-09-08T12:44:23Z")
> [@Colophon](#): > > Iā€™m amazed, and impressed, that he sticks around. You are not alone. I am constantly amazed and impressed myself because of this. It is also strangely worryingā€¦ It makes me wonder where this tendency towards masochism I display has its origin. I am already for some time thinking about engaging myself in study on the human psyche in order to become able to dissect my deranged mind. Iā€™m now trying very hard to figure out how it is possible for a thread like this to show up on this board. My membername in the title, while the OP is concerned about the reception I receive on this message board instead of being concerned on getting me banned, if I canā€™t be driven away by the hostility of his post and the ones he hopes to provoke as follow up. I must confess that I am strangely moved. Such posts are the very least I normally expect, and now you have made a whole thread for thisā€¦ I should say: let me buy you a drink in some obscure location where it goes unnoticed that I endorse and encourage the consumation of such a satanic item. Salaam. A ---
**Author:** ![Grey](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/b782af/32.png) [@Grey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grey)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 1:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/50 "2004-09-08T13:40:08Z")
You take a child like joy in the imagined assassination of your character perhaps? Well that and it keeps your twitchy knee in shape. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2004, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/51 "2004-09-08T14:02:59Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > No one who fails to condemn these acts is innocent. ā€œThe only thing necessary for the triumph of evil is for good men to do nothing.ā€ ā€” Edmund Burke. Please, the sanctimony is making my eyes bleed. What are _you_ doing to fight terrorism, apart from harrassing harmless Muslims on a messageboard? Burke is all very well, but I suspect that his next words were not, ā€œso get out there and start hectoring anyone you can tangentially connect with naughtiness.ā€ > [@Liberal](#): > > If your sole point is that his feelings might be hurt, then fuck you both. Never have I been more sorely tempted to respond with just a rolleyes. Speaking of bizarre speculation, my sole point is _not_ that his ā€œfeelings might be hurt.ā€ Iā€™ve made my point quite clear, and **Martiju** has made it clearer. By all means, though, keep up the disingenuous schtick; apparently in your world uninvolved outsiders can lecture others on their obligations without expecting any adverse reaction. (cue: "no-one is uninvolved in the noble fight against blah blahā€¦) > [@Aldebaran](#): > > I endorse and encourage the consumation of such a satanic item. If thatā€™s what you do to your beer, it will most certainly not go unnoticed. šŸ™‚ ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2004, 10:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/52 "2004-09-09T10:30:51Z")
> [@Aldebaran](#): > > I should say: let me buy you a drink in some obscure location What, like Belgium? šŸ˜ƒ No, no - I was just kiddingā€¦ put the stick down! Note to SDMB as a whole: **Aldebaran** is not a spokesperson for the Muslim world. He doesnā€™t make policy. Note to **Aldebaran** : not everyone is out to get you. Itā€™s not necessary to go straight on the defensive at any perceived slight; it will only antagonise people. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2004, 11:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/53 "2004-09-09T11:05:00Z")
> [@Dead Badger](#): > > Please, the sanctimony is making my eyes bleed. What are _you_ doing to fight terrorism, apart from harrassing harmless Muslims on a messageboard? Burke is all very well, but I suspect that his next words were not, ā€œso get out there and start hectoring anyone you can tangentially connect with naughtiness.ā€ Weā€™re going to have to pause here because this will be the fourth time that the point has flown over your head. Iā€™m going to put it in a separate paragraph and emphasize it so you donā€™t miss it again. **The person who connected himself with this was Aldebaran.** He sauntered into the thread and announced that he had nothing to apologize for despite that no one had asked anyone to apologize for anything. Then, when asked to condemn the child-kidnappings, he refused, saying that because he wasnā€™t the one who did it, he should not be the one to condemn it. If you could prevail upon yourself to deal with what actually happened, rather than make stuff up, it would be greatly appreciated. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2004, 11:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/54 "2004-09-09T11:17:24Z")
No individual has anything to apologise for in the name of their culture or religion. They are part of that groupā€¦but they are not that group. ---
**Author:** ![Dead\_Badger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/848f3c/32.png) [@Dead\_Badger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dead_Badger)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2004, 11:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/55 "2004-09-09T11:30:10Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > **The person who connected himself with this was Aldebaran.** Yes, in no way should your blithe statements about the obligations of all Muslims be taken to apply to individual Muslims. Thatā€™d just be _silly_. Erā€¦ Your ā€œpointā€ is not flying over my head. Itā€™s not a point at all. If youā€™re going to bang on about what a large group of people ought to be doing, only to hide behind the claim that you werenā€™t talking to anyone _specifically_ when someone takes issue, one has to wonder why on earth you made the post in the first place. Of _course_ people are going to take it personally, thatā€™s what people _do_. If I were to start a highly original thread stating that fat people ought to get up and do some exercise, would I get jumped on by 10-15 highly insulted fat people? Yes, yes I would. And Iā€™d be bloody stupid to expect otherwise. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2004, 11:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/56 "2004-09-09T11:32:00Z")
> [@calm kiwi](#): > > No individual has anything to apologise for in the name of their culture or religion. > > They are part of that groupā€¦but they are not that group. Who the hell asked for an apology? ---
**Author:** ![InvidiousCourgette](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/e47c2d/32.png) [@InvidiousCourgette](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/InvidiousCourgette)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2004, 11:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/57 "2004-09-09T11:36:43Z")
I will condemn a German for being a Nazi, not for being German. I will condemn a Muslim for being a terrorist, not for being Muslim. Requiring an explicit rather than implicit condemnation from Alderbaran alone, purely because of a possible religous connection, is wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2004, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/58 "2004-09-09T11:39:20Z")
> [@Dead Badger](#): > > Yes, in no way should your blithe statements about the obligations of all Muslims be taken to apply to individual Muslims. Thatā€™d just be _silly_. Erā€¦ > > Your ā€œpointā€ is not flying over my head. Itā€™s not a point at all. If youā€™re going to bang on about what a large group of people ought to be doing, only to hide behind the claim that you werenā€™t talking to anyone _specifically_ when someone takes issue, one has to wonder why on earth you made the post in the first place. Of _course_ people are going to take it personally, thatā€™s what people _do_. If I were to start a highly original thread stating that fat people ought to get up and do some exercise, would I get jumped on by 10-15 highly insulted fat people? Yes, yes I would. And Iā€™d be bloody stupid to expect otherwise. Ah. The Greased Cat defense. If fat people formed world-wide terrorist networks, blew up skyscrapers and kidnapped children, youā€™re damned right Iā€™d call for fat people the world over to shout out their condemnation. Your comparing the mass murder of children to fat people needing exercise is utterly Neanderthal. Aldebaran made his own choice to enter the thread. He made his own choice to identify his position and outright refuse to condemn the acts. And remarkably, you have risen to his defense. ---
**Author:** ![calm\_kiwi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9fc348/32.png) [@calm\_kiwi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/calm_kiwi)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2004, 11:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/59 "2004-09-09T11:40:00Z")
Ok you didnā€™t ask for an apology but you did say this. Then, when asked to condemn the child-kidnappings, he refused, saying that because he wasnā€™t the one who did it, he should not be the one to condemn it. Yes they are not the same thing. But I know ! donā€™t want to have to be responsible for all the crimes commited by those who fit my national, ethnic etc makeup. I would be way behind on the apologising if that were the case. ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [September 9, 2004, 11:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498/60 "2004-09-09T11:42:25Z")
> [@InvidiousCourgette](#): > > I will condemn a German for being a Nazi, not for being German. I will condemn a Muslim for being a terrorist, not for being Muslim. Requiring an explicit rather than implicit condemnation from Alderbaran alone, purely because of a possible religous connection, is wrong. No one did that. > [@Calm kiwi](#): > > Yes they are not the same thing. But I know ! donā€™t want to have to be responsible for all the crimes commited by those who fit my national, ethnic etc makeup. Listen carefully: **no one has asked him to take responsibility.** I have condemned the acts, and I am not responsible for them. The fucking POPE has condemned the acts, and he is not responsible for them either. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/why-does-aldebaran-get-so-much-stick/263498.md?page=4)